Compact mic for double bass, DPA 4061?

[Gerax]

Hello guys

I'm in need to find a good sounding condenser mic that a client of mine will use on his double bass.
Here's the situation: he's in a quartet playing Klezmer music (really killer players, highly dynamic and detailed music). I've fitted the other three musicians (violin, clarinet, accordion) with DPA 4061 mini mics, that will be used for both live sound reinforcement and recording purposes.
I usually mic the double bass with either AKG 414, Blue Baby Bottle or other LD condensers, but he needs to have a bit more "freedom of movement", and ease of setup (I'm not able to be there following them to mic the bass up every time), kind of a surefire solution that could be mounted directly on the instrument.
Oh, the most important thing, the bass is played almost exclusively with bow, no pizzicato...so I'm cutting ot pickups, piezos, or the likes.
I was thinking about another DPA 4061 (even though they don't specify if it's good or not for double bass on DPA web site's specs), or an ATM350 which I heard is really good with pizzicato acoustic bass (will it be as good with bowed bass?).

Thanx for your feedback

L.G.

[fifthcircle]

4061 sounds great on bass... Really the only mic that I will ever mount on a string instrument. There are a number of positions that work well- from using their string mount to placing it in a small piece of foam mounted inside the bridge.

--Ben

[Gerax]

Hi Fifthcircle, thanx for the reply.

I guess you have tried it with bow, that's what I'm most interested in, as the bassist is a classical player (from one of the major Italian Orchestras), so he's very concerned about the sou d he's getting from his instrument.
I already used the "piece of foam" trick with an AKG C451 pointed straight up at the fingerboard, from the bridge, and it worked well, but it's not the kind of mic technique that "a musician" can do by himself (if you know what I mean ). I guess the included mount will be right, what do you think?

Thanx again

L.G.

[klaukholm]

I would try the David Gage "Realist" pickup that goes under the bassbar side bridge foot.
It can sound quite good bowed depending of course on the bass, strings, rosin, bow and the player.

Certainly with a good eq you should be able to get a very good sound from it.
I had to play bowed through amplification as the only bass with one of the top US orchestras once and that pickup saved me.

[Gerax]

Mmm...I used the Realist with another player (from Accademia of Santa Cecilia in Rome) and it was great on pizzicato, but when I listen to i on bowed parts it's not usable for classical purposes (IMO). Plus, I don't know how the signal will be treated by the engineer each time...I really need a solution that will sound as natural and as good as possible right from the start. I purposely stayed away from piezos and pickups.

Thanx for your feedback though

L.G.

[LX3]

I've used the 4061 on bass once so far (with another opportunity coming up soon) and it sounded great - at least, when no-one else was playing! Spill is a problem, but this was a loud amplified gig. With your line-up I think it'll be fine. Or better than fine - great in fact.

I used it with the DPA string attachment to hold the cable, but suspended the capsule on a shock cord strung between the legs of the bridge, in an effort to get it a few inches closer to the instrument and prevent it flapping about. Not sure it made much of a difference - I expect just using the string mount alone would have worked much the same.

Paul

[klaukholm]

Like I said it depends on the player and the instrument.
It has to be a pure and dark sounding instrument with no sizzle in the sound.
On my Hill it is no problem.
I would try using that plus the DPA suggested above or the 4023 in the DPA suspension.

Too bad schoeps does not have a fancy mount like DPA. The ccm41 could be great for this.

[fifthcircle]

4061 sounds about as good as any clip-on will sound with a bow. Probably going to want to roll off a touch of the top end, but it will still do quite well. I've used them in both jazz pizz and classical situation (in orchestra) with good results.

My recommendation for the foam was a bit different than the standard 451 in foam kind of thing. You need a much smaller piece (and I believe it is Sanken makes a rubber mount for the COS-11 that will do the same thing) that will fit in one of the small holes in the bridge. You really don't need much because the microphone is so small. I think you'll get a bit better sound with the DPA string mounts, but the foam does quite well too in a pinch.

--Ben

[liuto]

Originally Posted by klaukholm

Too bad schoeps does not have a fancy mount like DPA. The ccm41 could be great for this.

Hi Kjetil, actually they have a Kontrabass Adapter VA5

SCHOEPS instr-adapters

Best regards
Hermann

[Gerax]

OK

Thanx everybody.
Then I'm going to get another one for the bass and go with that; Plus, that'll give me more consistency with sound, as I'll be using the same mic across the whole quartet.
I'll let you know how it goes.

L.G.

[klaukholm]

Originally Posted by liuto

Hi Kjetil, actually they have a Kontrabass Adapter VA5

SCHOEPS instr-adapters

Best regards
Hermann

I did not know about the schoeps adapter.
The DPA adapter still looks more functional.
I don't like the idea of clamping it to the bridge as it acts as a giant mute.

[fifthcircle]

Look at the Schoeps VA4 on that same page. Clamps to the body of the instrument. That could be a great way to go as well...

I don't remember who made it, but there is a mic rig out there that you can clamp to the body of a bass and put the mic about the location of the F-hole. I've seen them on a number of jazz dates that I've done and they always sound awesome... Not sure I'd use it for bowed bass, but it is a whole world better than a pickup.

--Ben

[klaukholm]

Ben, I saw that one.
those are not good for the varnish on a 250year old bass.
The wood on my Hill is soft to the touch by the edge and a clamp like that could cause serious damage.
On sub $30k instruments I would not worry.

[fifthcircle]

I understand completely... Heck, most of the string players I work with don't even like using the little rubber DPA mounts.

Best not to damage the instrument and that is why I go with the 4061 when I need to mic like this. Any other mic that I'll use gets placed on a stand...

BTW, when it comes to bass micing, I've been very impressed with the SE Electronics Z3300a microphone. It has its issues as a mic for a lot of stuff, but for bass it works very well (and is very inexpensive- I think I paid about $350 for mine) I use that mic as an orchestral spot as well as for jazz work and it sounds great for both- similar to a U47 FET, but with a bit more extended top end.

--Ben

[klaukholm]

Thanks for the tip.
My favourites on bass are TLM170 for a natural and smooth sound
or 44BX for a huge orchestral bottom (good for a single bass in a chamber orchestra when it needs a larger sound)
MK4 works ok as an orchestral bass spot as well though it can get stringier sounding than the 170.