CF Field Recorder - please recommend

[Jonathan Starr]

I've been recording club gigs I play with a local jam band (I'm a bass player) on a Sony Hi-MD MZ-RH1 using a stereo Rode NT4 on a desk stand. It's a convenient setup and I can drag uncompressed PCM WAV files directly into my G5 and open them in ProTools.

I wish the preamps and A/D was better - the unit instills a certain sound that is beginning to get to me, and folks want copies of our recordings.

A friend offered to buy the Sony, so it's time to upgrade.

I record in "set it & forget it" mode, since I'm playing and can't think about it during a set. Over time, I found levels that work on the Sony without using the limiter. I have a PTLE 002R setup and a Roland VS2480, but I can't deal with that much setup or leave it unprotected on a house table when gigging.

4 tracks would be nice, since I could add a vocal track to the X/Y set.

Seems my choices include:
The 4-track Sound Devices 744 is ideal, but several times my budget.
Sound Devices 702 - more than I want to spend.
Edirol R4 - Are the Roland Pres & Converters any better than the Sony ?
Tascam HDP2, Fostex FR2, Marantz PMD670 Korg MR-1000.

Are any of these superior? Is there anything else out there? Does anyone have a used Sound Devices or other pro unit they want to sell?

[tnjazz]

I have used all of the recorders you have listed except for the Fostex.

I would heartily recommend the Sound Devices for sure, as well as the Korg. I would NOT recommend the Marantz, because I think their preamps sound terrible. The Tascam is a decent unit too, and can be found used in the $700-750 range a lot.

The R4 is a good product and fairly solid, but it's not stellar. For 4 channels on the cheap though it can't be beat.

What I would get would depend on the number of channels and the precise budget.

For 4 channels your only real field choice is the Edirol unit, unless you want to spend $4K.

For 2 channels it gets a little less clear. I would pick the Korg any day over the others in terms of fidelity (especially with DSD). For robustness the Sound Devices are tops though, and sound excellent themselves.

[Bryan Talbot]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Starr

Edirol R4 - Are the Roland Pres & Converters any better than the Sony?

They're not too good. They'll do, but I was planning to buy a MiniMe or similar front-end until I sold the R-4.

[boojum]

All I can tell you is that I have an SD 722 and it is great. Set it and forget it! Once you crank in the basic parameters all you need to is hit the "record" button. It is as easy to use as a Walkman and easier that the RH1. I have one of those, too.

Cheers

[Jonathan Starr]

Folks seem to love the SD units; from pix it looks like they are the only ones that are not built like Made in China toys.

I was hoping someone would lovingly rave about one of the others. I've seen quality Fostex, Tascam and Marantz stuff in other eras, but it seems the Mattel factor has taken over.

I'm not going to bounce the unit around, but I want it to sound transparent without needing an outboard front end.

[tnjazz]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Starr

I was hoping someone would lovingly rave about one of the others.

OK perhaps I wasn't clear enough. The Korg smokes every other deck in the list when it comes to sound quality, IMO. It's very solidly built and much less toy-like than some of the others, but it's still a step below the SD in terms of ruggedness. Plus the I/O is rather limited since it's designed as a mastering recorder.

Even so, if I could choose only one recorder and I was only doing 2 channels it would be no contest. The Korg would win hands down every time.

[leddy]

Originally Posted by Bryan Talbot

They're not too good. They'll do, but I was planning to buy a MiniMe or similar front-end until I sold the R-4.

Is the "Pro" version of the R4 better?

Having SMPTE, I would think it could be a winner because you could link multiple units together, no? If the sound quality was there, you could have many tracks and many features in a very small/light package.

I think there is a company that mods the R4 - but I can't remember.

[springer]

I have been using an Oade modded PMD-660 for year now of flawless use. The preamps are changed and sound really nice. Of course every unit has idiosyncracies, but once I had them worked out and matched with "hot" mics - she burns 2 track like noones business.
Good luck...

[Jonathan Starr]

Originally Posted by tnjazz

OK perhaps I wasn't clear enough. The Korg smokes every other deck in the list when it comes to sound quality, IMO. It's very solidly built and much less toy-like than some of the others, but it's still a step below the SD in terms of ruggedness. Plus the I/O is rather limited since it's designed as a mastering recorder.

Even so, if I could choose only one recorder and I was only doing 2 channels it would be no contest. The Korg would win hands down every time.

Didn't you just sell the Korg, the replacement one, almost immediately after the first one you received arrived defective?

It appears to be an oddball design, with puffed up rhetoric, and that makes me nervous.

[Fran Guidry]

For 2 channels, the Fostex FR2-LE has won my heart. I sold my Marantz PMD670 because of the noisy preamps, the FR2-LE is a vast improvement.

In some preliminary tests with an SD 744 I couldn't tell the difference between them for sound quality. Of course, the SD is much more ruggedly constructed.

Fran

[tnjazz]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Starr

Didn't you just sell the Korg, the replacement one, almost immediately after the first one you received arrived defective?

It appears to be an oddball design, with puffed up rhetoric, and that makes me nervous.

Yes I did, but only because I have an immediate need for some business related gear that takes priority over "personal" gear at this time. I didn't want to sell the Korg and I could have kept it if I'd really stretched the budget, but it would have been idle a good deal more over the next few months than it had been previously.

We primarily do 24-48 channel location recording. The Korg has been a fun 2 channel recorder for me, but the days of me getting out and recording music "taper-style" (2 microphones) are few and far between these days. If I'm recording, I'm pretty much running at least 16 channels and we have a couple other units as backup recorders (24/48) anyway.

It came down to keeping a taper's rig or taking that money to pick up some additional multitrack gear in the short term that will help my business grow. That's also a no-brainer.

I plan to purchase another Korg unit in the very near future though, hopefully before the end of the year. As we move more towards potentially offering DSD mastering services in the future that will again become a priority piece to buy. There's no doubt in my mind about the fidelity and sonic improvement it provides, even over those SD recorders. There's just more important stuff to buy right now.

Not sure about oddball design (looks fairly normal to me) and as far as puffed up rhetoric goes, I haven't seen a whole lot of anything about these units. Either way I trust my ears to make those critical decisions, not some fluff piece I might read in the back of TapeOp. The Korg sounds great. No two ways about it.

[Jonathan Starr]

Thanks for the illumination about the Korg. I'll give them a closer look. From your comments it appears they got the sonic part of things right, which is all I care about.

[tnjazz]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Starr

Thanks for the illumination about the Korg. I'll give them a closer look. From your comments it appears they got the sonic part of things right, which is all I care about.

Of course when it comes right down to it the Korg's not a CF recorder...

So if you're set on a CF recorder as opposed to HDD, I would recommend any of the above mentioned recorders except for the Marantz (bad stock pres) and the Fostex (never used)...

A good place for 2 channel recording information is Tapers Section

Some of the gear sellers offer mods to the Fostex, Tascam and Marantz units that really make them shine. More info on this and all kinds of other 2-4 channel field recording gear/techniques, etc. can be found over there.

Good luck!

[Jonathan Starr]

Thanks for the link to Tapers Section. That's a useful resouce for me.

[pbansen]

Originally Posted by springer

I have been using an Oade modded PMD-660 for year now of flawless use. The preamps are changed and sound really nice. Of course every unit has idiosyncracies, but once I had them worked out and matched with "hot" mics - she burns 2 track like noones business.
Good luck...

That's the direction I'm leaning for two-track recording - seems very simple and reliable. How's the battery life in the 660? What mics are you using with it? Which Oade Brothers mod do you have?

Thanks!

[springer]

2 of the beautiful things I like about this unit is the batteries (good ole AA), and CF (of which I use in my Nikon Camera and mp3 listening).
Batteries from MAHA 2700mHa last about 4+ hours. No proprietary 5 lbs. battery that costs $85 from Sony, etc...

Maha / Powerex Corporate Site : NiMh Batteries and Chargers from Powerex, Digital Cameras from Maha, Powerex 2200 Rechargeable Batteries and Chargers, AA, nimh, lithium ion, 2000 mah, 2200mah, charger, battery

I got the Concert mod (not the Advanced) as Doug advised me that the advanced is only for out door wildlife low-level type recording. I do jazz and classical.

The preamps are really beautiful and warm but the one idiosyncracy I found is that the source must be of sufficient loudness. I used to record with 4011's and found my self cranking up the gain. At high levels of gain my unit makes a stopwatch noise. Doug said that was due to the type of CF - he recommended using the older style (slower) CF cards. I tried that and it lessened the problem to a degree, but didn't eliminate it. What did eliminate it was using the AKG C480 with any of the CK6x caps. They have a very hot signal so that my gain can remain at mid-level and the stop watch sound goes away. So it is a GREAT unit with the correct setup - mics with a sensitivity of 40mV or greater on soft sources.

Good luck.

[Robobo1]

SD 702 hands down for your needs. Excellent pres, good A/D, easy i/o, and with the new firmware you can record to an external FW400 drive if necessary.

I'm thinking of the 702 to make a nice stereo rig... Royer SF12, AEA TRP, SD 702, 2x100 ft of starquad... nice, small, great-sounding package. Take along the FW drive if it's a long concert.

[digitalolive]

Check out the latest "Pro Audio Review" (or one of the latest anyway). The whole issue is on field recorders.

[Jonathan Starr]

Originally Posted by digitalolive

Check out the latest "Pro Audio Review" (or one of the latest anyway). The whole issue is on field recorders.

Will check it out. Thanks.