sound devices 744T questions

[Doozer]

I’ve been considering a sound devices 744T for a couple of years now. I am currently using an alesis HD24xr. What category would you place the quality of the converters/preamps and overall fidelity of the 744? Most of the work I get only requires 4 tracks, so the alesis isn’t practical for most of my applications.

[boojum]

I have a 722 and am quite pleased with it. Taperssection.com has quite a few SD 7xx users who can fill you in. The 722 and the 744T have the same pre-amps and A/D converters. I like the sound I am getting very, very much. I cannot compare the setup but can tell you I doubt you will be disappointed. Musicians like it.

[MichaelPatrick]

SD recorders are popular in critical location film work and I have no problem playing my live acoustic music recordings for audiophiles.

I use an Alesis HD24XR with built-in ADCs and Aurora converters, and I frequently use an SD 744T with its built-in ADCs. The 744T converters are excellent.

Having used Cranesong, Benchmark, and Meitner ADCs, I doubt that SD's converters will be the weakness in your chain.

While 744T mic pres are also good, I always take dedicated pres if there's a power plug around.

[niquest]

I have used the 744T and liked it a lot. It excels in reliability, ease of use and stability of sync what with it being equipped with this Ambient clock thing.

It only sports two mic preamps, though (which sound great but not, like, amazing). And while you're at it looking for a pair of mic pres to match why not stay with the HD24 and for the money you save buy 4 or even 8 excellent racked pres?

[Jam]

Been working with one over the summer - the guy I'm working with has two - and I've been very impressed. It's been used to supplement a Radar and upon mixing the tracks I didn't even think about there being any difference in quality.

Jam

[Baithak]

Originally Posted by Doozer

I’ve been considering a sound devices 744T for a couple of years now. I am currently using an alesis HD24xr. What category would you place the quality of the converters/preamps and overall fidelity of the 744? Most of the work I get only requires 4 tracks, so the alesis isn’t practical for most of my applications.

Hey Doozer,

I have been a 744 user for a long time now and it has been my primary location 4 track for all that time. I have never had a problem in the field and as others have said, the sound is excellent. The only problems that I have run into are:

1. No mix bus. Which means it is difficult to monitor a "live" mix. Also on playback you can only playback two analog tracks so you will need a computer to mix your files.

2. The two preamps situation means you will have to carry another set of pres. I usually choose between SD's 442 when only battery operation is a possible or take the Cranesong spider where AC power is available to solve both the problems.

Since you have waited so long, you may want to consider waiting a bit longer to see the new Sonosax 8 track unit. They have preannounced the design over six months ago and I am hoping to see a prototype this AES. (SONOSAX Audio equipment manufacturer)

Good luck,
Baithak

[Dave Ferris]

In my continuing quest on avoiding the computer for recording I'm looking at a used 722 and used Crane Song Spider.

My application is...no field, my studio only, recoprding my Steinway D and vocal live, no overdubbing, 2-3 mics on piano and one on vocal.

Would I get better results using the Spider on something like the 722 or a Tascam DV-RA1000. What about just getting the SD 302 small mixer and going into the 722 like that? I know I'm going from 3 or 4 tracks down to two, would there be better results staying with a 4 track machine? For the price of the Spider + used SD 722 or Tascam I'm around a grand short of a Nagra VI.

[loujudson]

Originally Posted by Baithak

Hey Doozer,

I have been a 744 user for a long time now and it has been my primary location 4 track for all that time. I have never had a problem in the field and as others have said, the sound is excellent. The only problems that I have run into are:

1. No mix bus. Which means it is difficult to monitor a "live" mix. Also on playback you can only playback two analog tracks so you will need a computer to mix your files.

2. The two preamps situation means you will have to carry another set of pres. I usually choose between SD's 442 when only battery operation is a possible or take the Cranesong spider where AC power is available to solve both the problems.

Good luck,
Baithak

I have been using my 744T since 2004 and love it. I also own an HD24XR and only use it when I need more than four tracks.

But you need to read the manual some more. You can set outs 1&2 to be any combination of tracks you want! I actually just leanred this recently, when I wanted to feed all four tracks out the minijack output so a firend could have both the mix and the room mics.

It's menu items 53 for the L and 54 for the R on output 1. Set L to AC and R to BD to get four tracks as stereo pairs mixed.

I use a Millenia HV3 for the extra channels when I need pres and have AC power.

Lou

[aracu]

Originally Posted by Doozer

What category would you place the quality of the converters/preamps and overall fidelity of the 744?

Surprisingly high tech, high quality.

[sonare]

Originally Posted by Dave Ferris

In my continuing quest on avoiding the computer for recording I'm looking at a used 722 and used Crane Song Spider.

My application is...no field, my studio only, recoprding my Steinway D and vocal live, no overdubbing, 2-3 mics on piano and one on vocal.

Would I get better results using the Spider on something like the 722 or a Tascam DV-RA1000. What about just getting the SD 302 small mixer and going into the 722 like that? I know I'm going from 3 or 4 tracks down to two, would there be better results staying with a 4 track machine? For the price of the Spider + used SD 722 or Tascam I'm around a grand short of a Nagra VI. Piano mics are the DPA 4011s, possibly one LDC for a room mic down the road and for Vocal, a Bock 251 or 151.

Another option might be the new ULN-8 into the 722 or Tascam. Any thoughts or suggestions on the different possibilities?

Thanks.

Forget the ULN-8 unless you are going to take full adavantage of this amazing unit. I have been using them for about 2 years, and I doubt there is anything that will top the micpres and ADC. I am guessing you load into a computer what you record, so why the phobia with using a computer for recording?

Rich

[5flagsaudio]

I did a comparison thread here on the SD 702 vs Millenia HV3D/RME ADI-8DS. I found the 702 to be a fantastic piece of kit. While I was reviewing that unit for a client of mine (I want a 788T) I wouldn't hesitate to buy one for myself for a quck and easy 2 track rig. The pres are very very good as is the AD conversion.

[Don S]

Same here. I usually go out with an older HV3-quad and mytek. I split the mics on a 2 track gig and did a comparison. I was hoping to hear a big difference, however, it was very slight. I have a 702 and it's worth the cost for the mic pres and AtoD alone.

[Dave Ferris]

Originally Posted by sonare

I am guessing you load into a computer what you record, so why the phobia with using a computer for recording?

Rich

No, actually I don't, still using the archaic Marantz CDR300 CD recorder.

It's not a phobia but rather a time issue with me. The bulk of my time is spent on MAKING MUSIC not recording it. The time I do have when I'm not teaching or gigging is spent at the piano working on Bud Powell, how the diminshed scale functions over a dominant seventh chord, Chopin, Bach, composing, arranging, etc. etc. That's not even including working on my vocal chops. So has you can see I have a full musical plate, learning a Mac OS + recording software is just not attractive to me. Not to say I'll never go there but I'm looking at other options.

[Baithak]

Originally Posted by Dave Ferris

In my continuing quest on avoiding the computer for recording I'm looking at a used 722 and used Crane Song Spider.

My application is...no field, my studio only, recoprding my Steinway D and vocal live, no overdubbing, 2-3 mics on piano and one on vocal.

Would I get better results using the Spider on something like the 722 or a Tascam DV-RA1000. What about just getting the SD 302 small mixer and going into the 722 like that? I know I'm going from 3 or 4 tracks down to two, would there be better results staying with a 4 track machine? For the price of the Spider + used SD 722 or Tascam I'm around a grand short of a Nagra VI. Piano mics are the DPA 4011s, possibly one LDC for a room mic down the road and for Vocal, a Bock 251 or 151.

Another option might be the new ULN-8 into the 722 or Tascam. Any thoughts or suggestions on the different possibilities?

Thanks.

Dave the question seems to boil down to this: do you need multi-track recording in addition to multi-mic recording. If you *always* do a mix down live then a two track recorder will do the job. If you intend to keep the tracks separate and mix-down later then you will need a multi-tracker.

From your needs description it seems that ULN-8, Spider are overkill. My suggested pairing is :

A. If you don't need multi-track recordings:
Something like the Benchmark MP-420 into either a 722 or a 702

B. If you need multi-track recordings:
Benchmark 420 into 744. Since the Benchmark gives us a mix out option, you could theoretically record 3 live tracks and one mix track simultaneously if you wish. This gives you 6 inputs 2 on the 744 and 4 on the Benchmark and four recording tracks.

C. If you need multi-track and more than four tracks:
Sound Devices 788 gives you 8 mic/line inputs and I understand 10 recordings or 12 if you go with their fader panel. Do remember that with both the 744 and 788 you can't yet pan any track left-right in a variable manner- you can only hard assign them; if that is adequate you are done else (e.g. if you need EQ / Pan etc in post) you will need either a mixer or a computer to mix-down your tracks.

Good Luck,
Baithak

[Dave Ferris]

Thank you for taking the time to outline the different possibilities Baithak.

I was able to speak with another muscian in town today. He's a bit more engineer inclined than I in addition to being a very fine classical and sometimes jazz clarinetist. He has used the Sound Devices for recording different ensembles but now has the Nagra VI. He thought the SD was better suited to film, dialogue or FX type application, he found the sound very good but a bit clinical. His feelings were the Nagra VI was a better music recorder...fwiw.

[Baithak]

Dear Dave:

If you read posts 3/4 and more above it will be clear that the Sound Devices machines are no slouches when it comes to their pre or quality of conversion. Two Schoeps Mics into the 7-series recorders can produce stunning recordings as I have experienced plenty of times. I have a Spider; the Korg MR1000; the 744; Millenia Pres ; the older Benchmark Pres etc. and it would be difficult for me to listen to a recording done sometime in the past three years and say either: Damn! I shouldn't have used *** in the chain or Wow! I can clearly hear *** in the chain. The differences between the mics are more obvious; the differences between the space in which the recordings were done are obvious even to an untrained ear.

What I am saying is that if the ultimate quality of the recordings is determined by the weakest link in the chain, it is doubtful to me that any of the gear above represents that weak link. Mics/placement/room/player/mood etc. will have a far greater impact than any of this gear.

The only other combo that I should have mentioned in my first mail is the Benchmark 420 - Korg MR-1000; It should come in around US $4K and will produce stunning recordings in DSD or double DSD for the kind of straight to tape recordings that you envisage.

Good luck,
Baithak

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by Dave Ferris

I was able to speak with another muscian in town today. He's a bit more engineer inclined than I in addition to being a very fine classical and sometimes jazz clarinetist. He has used the Sound Devices for recording different ensembles but now has the Nagra VI. He thought the SD was better suited to film, dialogue or FX type application, he found the sound very good but a bit clinical. His feelings were the Nagra VI was a better music recorder...fwiw.

Same here - I use the Nagra VI for classical music recording.

The 2-channel Nagra LB is also good.

The SD range *are* good, but I agree with the quote above - and remember, the 744 only has two mic. inputs (as far as I remember), the 788 has 8.

[pkautzsch]

Originally Posted by Dave Ferris

What about just getting the SD 302 small mixer and going into the 722 like that?

NOT the 302. It's not bad, but in direct comparison to the 7 series' preamps it's noisy and flat.

I guess what you need is the 788. You could even record a mix of Tracks 1-4 to tracks 5-6.

[Dave Ferris]

Thanks Pkautzsch for that info.

John, sent you a PM.

OT but has anyone used the Spider into a two track machine like the Tascam DV-RA1000 or even the SD 702/722?

Thanks everyone for the responses and for bearing with my non-engineer speak.

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by Dave Ferris

John, sent you a PM.

Answered.

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by Baithak

If you read posts 3/4 and more above it will be clear that the Sound Devices machines are no slouches when it comes to their pre or quality of conversion. Two Schoeps Mics into the 7-series recorders can produce stunning recordings as I have experienced plenty of times. ... and it would be difficult for me to listen to a recording done sometime in the past three years and say either: Damn! I shouldn't have used *** in the chain or Wow! I can clearly hear *** in the chain. The differences between the mics are more obvious; the differences between the space in which the recordings were done are obvious even to an untrained ear.

What I am saying is that if the ultimate quality of the recordings is determined by the weakest link in the chain, it is doubtful to me that any of the gear above represents that weak link. Mics/placement/room/player/mood etc. will have a far greater impact than any of this gear.

100% agreed. The 744T preamps and converters are record-making quality.

[Jsuomi]

Hi, hope somebody still checks this thread and helps me out!

I started working with a 744t and noticed that, although the mic gains are all the way down to zero, I can still hear sound taken by the mic on my headphones. (the meters show signal going trough)

I´ve tried looking for an answer everywhere, unable to find it. If anybody knows is this just a setting thing or some kind of problem, I¨d aprecciate the help.

cheers

[pkautzsch]

This *is* a setting thing.
You can set the channel 1-2 pots to different "gain ranges" in the menu, and the standard setting is *not* fading to zero, but giving you a range in which you can very comfortably control typical on-location levels.

[Jsuomi]

Thanx for the answer. Maybe what is confusing me is that according to the manual there should be 4 options: Normal, Low, Normal fades to off and Low fades to off. Now in this 744t I have, there are only two options: Normal and Low...so am I missing something here? where are the other two?

J.

[tourtelot]

FWIW, I have a 788T and I think that the preamps, and AtoDs are right up there. The thing that I really like is the digital clock. It is made by Ambient in Germany and since it is made for motion picture work, it is extremely accurate. I believe the spec is less than 1PPM. Even the guys at Black Lion acknowledge it.

[loujudson]

Originally Posted by Jsuomi

Thanx for the answer. Maybe what is confusing me is that according to the manual there should be 4 options: Normal, Low, Normal fades to off and Low fades to off. Now in this 744t I have, there are only two options: Normal and Low...so am I missing something here? where are the other two?

J.

What version firmware do you have? They are up to 2.65 now. This is the kind of thing they keep improving!

ALSO be sure to dowload the current manual for the firmware revision you are using.

744T Firmware Download and Known Issues | Sound Devices, LLC

I really recommend using the forum at soundevices.com, and you get direct answers from the designers - GREAT people for support! Best support I have ever had on any product I have owned. Ever!

L