What are you listening on?

[JEGG]

Originally Posted by klaukholm

140db in the reverberant field?

When is the last time you saw an audience member cover their ears?
It happens (I have seen it twice in 10 years), but it is rarely a sound one would want to reproduce.

The last time (and I can't even remember the time before that!) was a few weeks ago at an Evening Prayer service (!!!!!!) at Trinity Wall Street (NYC). An electronic ersatz organ. Ironically, this service closed a choir festival, and nary a sound could be heard from the choristers when the organ was used. And the SPL was painful. I had to cover my ears.

[andy_simpson]

Originally Posted by JEGG

The last time (and I can't even remember the time before that!) was a few weeks ago at an Evening Prayer service (!!!!!!) at Trinity Wall Street (NYC). An electronic ersatz organ. Ironically, this service closed a choir festival, and nary a sound could be heard from the choristers when the organ was used. And the SPL was painful. I had to cover my ears.

I'm recording a 'brass orchestra' tomorrow. When I met with the conductor last night be cheerfully informed me that the orchestra had recently been measured at 126dB in a smallish venue.

Now, given that most SPL meters default to a 'slow' or C-weighting (RMS), that is a frightening prospect!

Still, I find that there are certain things that are not obviously apparent when playing back a recording at a lower SPL than the actual event.

With microphones it is quite easy to perceive that a recording has amazing 'detail' only to find that at the proper SPL this is a harsh distortion or metallic resonance. On strings & voices this is easily done.

Fletcher & Munson have something to say about this too.

Also, much of the appeal of overdriven tubes & transformers comes at expense of this scaleability in my experience.

Andy

[klaukholm]

Originally Posted by JEGG

The last time (and I can't even remember the time before that!) was a few weeks ago at an Evening Prayer service (!!!!!!) at Trinity Wall Street (NYC). An electronic ersatz organ. Ironically, this service closed a choir festival, and nary a sound could be heard from the choristers when the organ was used. And the SPL was painful. I had to cover my ears.

I am talking about orchestras, not electronic intruments.
while balancing organ and orchestra/choir can be extremely challenging at times, it is inexcuseable to get the balance wrong when using an electronic organ.

In answer to both andy's post and yours,
acoustic music that causes you pain is in the category of incompetent playing and as such it is neither desireable to listen to live nor to record.

I don't know a single professional who purposefully listens back to music at painful levels.

[andy_simpson]

Originally Posted by klaukholm

I am talking about orchestras, not electronic intruments.
while balancing organ and orchestra/choir can be extremely challenging at times, it is inexcuseable to get the balance wrong when using an electronic organ.

In answer to both andy's post and yours,
acoustic music that causes you pain is in the category of incompetent playing and as such it is neither desireable to listen to live nor to record.

I don't know a single professional who purposefully listens back to music at painful levels.

Yes, of course, pain is not a good thing in sound reproduction!

However, high peak SPL is not necessarily painful if it is clean & balanced.

Andy

[d_fu]

Originally Posted by andy_simpson

However, high peak SPL is not necessarily painful if it is clean & balanced.

I think it's psychologial also...

There are pieces of music that I can listen to at ridiculous SPL without feeling even remotely uncomfortable, while practically any kind of italian pop music even at low level causes me physical pain...

[studio1117]

Klein + Hummel o92
JBL LSR4328
AKG K240DF
Computer speakers...oh they say JBL "pro" on them....I had no idea I had such quality computer speakers (actually they do sound pretty good come to think of it)

[Jeraz]

ADAM A7s
KRK Rockits
AKG K701
Audio Technica ATHM40fs
Grado SR-60
Shure E2C
Senn HD-280

[andy_simpson]

Originally Posted by Jeraz

ADAM A7s
KRK Rockits
AKG K701
Audio Technica ATHM40fs
Grado SR-60
Shure E2C
Senn HD-280

That is an interesting list.

I wonder how the maximum SPL of each of these devices can alter how the sound of each is perceived.

Do you have specs for these?

Andy

[mosrite]

Audio Technica ATHM40fs

I tell you what is interesting is how good it is to get a tonal balance on sessions with those AT's. I bring my HD600's too for the clients, but what I get from the AT's always seems to translate when I reference back on the big PMC's in the studio. And they're DIRT cheap

[videoteque]

while practically any kind of italian pop music even at low level causes me physical pain...

It's called love!!!!!!!

[Jeraz]

Originally Posted by mosrite

I tell you what is interesting is how good it is to get a tonal balance on sessions with those AT's. I bring my HD600's too for the clients, but what I get from the AT's always seems to translate when I reference back on the big PMC's in the studio. And they're DIRT cheap

Yes, and there is nothing like them for comping a vocal. The vocal seems to sit right there so clearly...and if you can make a vocal sound good in these dead-flat cans, it will usually translate well on your monitors and anywhere else as well...

[Jeraz]

Originally Posted by andy_simpson

That is an interesting list.

I wonder how the maximum SPL of each of these devices can alter how the sound of each is perceived.

Do you have specs for these?

Andy

Well, I actually stuck my SPL meter into the cans to find something near the Katz settings for them all...LOL.

Specs are available for all on the Web, but I can give you a bit of personal review for each later...need to get to my day job now. See my other response on the 40's for vocal comping...the A-7s are insanely good for the money/size...K701 has a soundstage and feeling of space like no other at that price point...and even some higher...

Added later...SR-60s are probably the best rock/pop headphone under $100 and you can run them off an iPOD.

[andy_simpson]

Originally Posted by Jeraz

Well, I actually stuck my SPL meter into the cans to find something near the Katz settings for them all...LOL.

Specs are available for all on the Web, but I can give you a bit of personal review for each later...need to get to my day job now. See my other response on the 40's for vocal comping...the A-7s are insanely good for the money/size...K701 has a soundstage and feeling of space like no other at that price point...and even some higher...

Added later...SR-60s are probably the best rock/pop headphone under $100 and you can run them off an iPOD.

Thanks, I'd be very interested in a comparative review - with SPL spec's if possible.

Also, if you have Kallibrated your monitoring for all of those, how would you compare image size at matched SPL? I always find headphones give me a very tiny (miniature) reproduction scale, compared with the small image of near-field & the large image of far-field.

Andy

[salvomix]

Genelec 1031A's
Sennheiser HD600

SalvoMix

[XLR]

K+H O400 to mix on

Dynaudio 2 way HiFi speakers
Tiny bookshelve-format Spendors
a pair of 20 years old DIY speakers, with high dynamics, clean mids and a lack of bass

and a plastic box full of (closed) cans I don't like:
Sennheiser HD25, HD 250 linear, HD280
AKG k241df, k271
Ultrasone 750 Pro

[andy_simpson]

Originally Posted by XLR

K+H O400 to mix on

Dynaudio 2 way HiFi speakers
Tiny bookshelve-format Spendors
a pair of 20 years old DIY speakers, with high dynamics, clean mids and a lack of bass

....

DIY speakers? - I'm always interested in high dynamics.

Andy

[Rookie82]

I am new to this game and I have a pair of studio monitors that i can't identify, nor can anyone else that I've talked to so I'm puttin it out there to see if anyone knows. These monitors are all black with no markings except a decal that has an old english "L" and "A" and a british flag. Does anyone know what kind of monitors these are?!?!

[mosrite]

I am new to this game and I have a pair of studio monitors that i can't identify, nor can anyone else that I've talked to so I'm puttin it out there to see if anyone knows. These monitors are all black with no markings except a decal that has an old english "L" and "A" and a british flag. Does anyone know what kind of monitors these are?!?!

As a guess...Rogers.