New Sennheiser MKH8000 Series Mics

[ISedlacek]

Yes, the comparisons are often very relative (unless you compare Behringer with DPA etc.). The change of the mic position can often result in bigger difference than changing the mic in the same position.
Beyond certain quality level, the sound differences are very minor ...

Yet, in those clips, even after adjusting the volumes, the 8040 seems to sound more round, full and natural than Schoeps, which shows a bit of artificial "edginess" somehow ...

I would be very curious to hear omni comparison (MK2 vs 8020). I somehow found myself using omni on almost everything ...

[Remoteness]

We just used three MKH8020s over the audience for NPR's Toast of the Nation broadcast from the Jazz Standard.

Trio da Paz and Kenny Barron performed.
Jim Anderson was the mix enginner.
Aura Sonic provide the mobile unit and crew.

The mics sounded wonderful.
Jim was very pleased with the results.

Did anyone get a chance to hear this broadcast?
It also was streaming on the Net.

[fifthcircle]

Any suggestions on low-profile shockmounts for these little buggers? I just went to one of the best stores in LA for getting bits and pieces (Coast Recording on Santa Monica in Hollywood) and with all the mounts they had, none of them would fit a mic this small. The Audio Technica (which is the only thing I have right now that fits it) is way too big. Heck, the clip alone is as large as the mic, almost... Not to mention, the size defeats one of the purposes of such a small mic.

Why did Sennheiser have to design these to be 1-2 mm smaller than all the standard shockmounts?!

Am I stuck spending the bux for Sennheiser's overpriced mount?

--Ben

[sonare]

Do what I did with my 4003/6-- take a piece of black gaffer (about 1x12 inches) and wrap the connector end, then slip it in a Shure A53M.

Rich

[Folkie]

How about the AT8471 mount? It only costs about $30. The clamp portion is rubber(not plastic). See Audio-Technica - Microphones, headphones, wireless microphone systems, noise-cancelling headphones & more : AT8471 : Microphone Isolation Stand Clamp

I use them for my Josephson C617's and like them.
Bill

[tamasdragon]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

You probably noticed that the 8040 clip is higher in volume than the rest ... so for a true comparison, the volume levels should be adjusted ...

Noticed, corrected to some degree, still like the 8040 the best.
Tamas Dragon

[fifthcircle]

Originally Posted by Folkie

How about the AT8471 mount? It only costs about $30. The clamp portion is rubber(not plastic). See Audio-Technica - Microphones, headphones, wireless microphone systems, noise-cancelling headphones & more : AT8471 : Microphone Isolation Stand Clamp

I use them for my Josephson C617's and like them.
Bill

Interesting... Do they go down to 17mm in diameter? So far, I've found a number of great mounts, but they don't go quite small enough. Also, how good of a shock mount are they? The mics come with a mount, but the problem is they are very sensitive to noise coming up through the stand- much more than my schoeps and some of the similar mics that I use.

--Ben

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by tamasdragon

Noticed, corrected to some degree, still like the 8040 the best.
Tamas Dragon

Me too On the other hand I never liked Schoeps cardiod too much (sold MK4V recently).

[ABBA]

Hi there.

According to the specs, the new Sennheisers have much higher output (31 mV), thus
they need less amplification from the preamps.
They also have slightly less noise than the Schoeps.
At least the omnis (10 dB on Sennheiser vs 11-12 dB on Schoeps).

Have any of you Sennheiser-owners noticed any difference in noiselevel when compared to Schoeps?

When we did a recent comparison between different mics, the Schoeps seemed to have just as much noise as the other mics (but in different frequencies).
The other mics had 16 dB noise (the Schoeps claim to have only 11-12 dB noise).

Thanks.

[sonare]

There is no industry standard for noise measurement. You could have the same mic measured by three companies and get three different numbers.

Your ears are the best measurement.

[fifthcircle]

My experience when testing these mics is that the output was similar, but perhaps a touch lower than the original MKH40 and higher than the Schoeps.

As for noise floor, they are all low, but Sennheiser typically plays games with their mics to get an exceptionally noise-free sound. They are all very clean, though.

--Ben

[Folkie]

Originally Posted by fifthcircle

Interesting... Do they go down to 17mm in diameter? So far, I've found a number of great mounts, but they don't go quite small enough. Also, how good of a shock mount are they? The mics come with a mount, but the problem is they are very sensitive to noise coming up through the stand- much more than my schoeps and some of the similar mics that I use.

--Ben

Sorry but they measure approx. 20-21mm at smallest diameter. As to shock sensitivity-they compared quite favorably to traditional suspension mounts with the "hit the mic stand with metal object test". Given the price worth trying even if you need to use a bit of tape(or your own personal ownership label) wound on the outside of the mic to get a smug fit. I have a pair of 8040's on order and will be trying this. Bill

[mljung]

Well it was interesting to hear the sound of 8040 on piano, but I'm sure we are a few, who would love some sound examples of the 8020 and/or further comments, if this is possible.
Is this the ultimate pressure zone mic, we've all been waiting for..? [well some of us ]

Moreover does anybody know if pressure zone balls [like the APE balls for DPA] are or will be available for these tiny things.

Kind regards,
M

[aegert]

Hey

I want to use these to complement my arsenal for taping live rock shows from the audience FOB... have 184's 4011's how do you think they will be in this world?

thanks A

[mixerguy]

Originally Posted by aegert

Hey

I want to use these to complement my arsenal for taping live rock shows from the audience FOB... have 184's 4011's how do you think they will be in this world?

thanks A

In my opinion.... when you put ANY great pair of mics out in front of a live rock show... the sound will be so crappy, (relatively speaking) that the differences between the great mics you have and the (great) 8040 would be very small.

I'd say it wouldnt be worth it. Sure, the 8040s would sound different, but the end result would still be crappy (relatively speaking)

Does that make sense?

I think it is like.... like .... taking a photograph of a supermodel from 10 miles away... it doesnt matter what off the shelf camera you have..... Canon, Nikon, etc.



(i'm excluding telescopes - just a loose analogy)

[aegert]

Originally Posted by mixerguy

In my opinion.... when you put ANY great pair of mics out in front of a live rock show... the sound will be so crappy, (relatively speaking) that the differences between the great mics you have and the (great) 8040 would be very small.

I'd say it wouldnt be worth it. Sure, the 8040s would sound different, but the end result would still be crappy (relatively speaking)

Does that make sense?

I think it is like.... like .... taking a photograph of a supermodel from 10 miles away... it doesnt matter what off the shelf camera you have..... Canon, Nikon, etc.



(i'm excluding telescopes - just a loose analogy)

I appreciate that the recordings are not what you would get from a controlled studio with a piano and the time to set up for a release style recording. That being said you do hear the difference in a big way using great mics in my world. We do have upfront placement and we love the music and get very listenable recordings. Are they live record material? No but they are widely shared and loved. and often the only thing availble..

My questions are how well are they at reducing the stray room noise off axis... for example. This might not be the forum for this but I do know pro recordists who do the real work by day and do what I do by night... My hope was some comments from one of them on this issue :-)

Thanks for any info
A :-)

[bove]

Originally Posted by fifthcircle

Finally- the muzyk... Thoughts everybody?

--Ben

Thanks for posting the audio! It's always nice to hear some different microphones... there are lots of nice microphones out there!

[fifthcircle]

Originally Posted by mljung

Well it was interesting to hear the sound of 8040 on piano, but I'm sure we are a few, who would love some sound examples of the 8020 and/or further comments, if this is possible.
Is this the ultimate pressure zone mic, we've all been waiting for..? [well some of us ]

Moreover does anybody know if pressure zone balls [like the APE balls for DPA] are or will be available for these tiny things.

Kind regards,
M

Can't help you with omni samples, but if you saw the pictures posted on how small these mics are, you would see that there would also be no space for the balls and the mount to the mic stand. The mics are only about 3.5" long.

BTW, used these mics on a violin recording yesterday... I'm thrilled with the sound. Big and rich with air and not a hint of harshness.

--Ben

[mljung]

Originally Posted by fifthcircle

BTW, used these mics on a violin recording yesterday... I'm thrilled with the sound. Big and rich with air and not a hint of harshness.

--Ben

Thanks Ben -

This is one of the things that I have been wondering about; how they sound on strings. So your observations is very good news!

The question is, if they'll work for a full orchestra as main mics [A-B or Decca Tree]. I have an idea that they may lack presence for this kind of job and maybe be to 'dull' or to 'clouded' sounding [for the lack of better words] and therefore lack vividness.
This is why I ask for 'APE balls' as they project the sound and can 'listen deeper into an ensemble'. [I have 4006TL with APE 50mm.]
Anyhow I'm sure it's a wonder spot mic and general chamber music mic, still samples would be very welcome, when some, at some point, can post it!

Regards,
Mads

[d_fu]

Originally Posted by mljung

The question is, if they'll work for a full orchestra as main mics [A-B or Decca Tree]. I have an idea that they may lack presence for this kind of job and maybe be to 'dull' or to 'clouded' sounding [for the lack of better words] and therefore lack vividness.

The 8020 no longer seems to have the free/diffuse field response switch... Wonder why.

Let's see whether we'll get some AB samples, I'd be very interested. Seriously...


Daniel

[fifthcircle]

These mics remind me a lot of the MKH800 in a lot of situations... There is a reach and a sound that they have that I have not seen in many other mics.

I could absolutely imagine using these as an ORTF pair with flanks in any one of my orchestral situations. Unfortunately, I won't be able to test that for another month or so.

I think the piano sample could have sounded better if the mics were moved further back from the source. In this case, it wasn't really possible for the shootout, but in the couple times I've used them, I've found that I've had to position them further back than I thought I'd need.

--Ben

[Plush]

More reporting on the 8020 omnis I've been using for a while. . .

I have been using these as the outriggers on orchestra for about a month.

The 8020 sound is very good with a lot of reach to the back of the orchestra and no harshness in the sound. This is not the ideal way to test the mics since they are blended with many others to make the stereo picture. However, the Sennheiser omnis are an appealing sound in this usage test.

To really test the mics on their own I turned to piano recording. Here they offer up a rich sound with a lot of overtones yet a smoothness that other high quality SD mics do not offer. There is a bronze-ish sound to the mic that is appealing. I said before that the mic imparts a "golden halo" to the recorded sound.

Also killer was a brass ensemble in a reverberant hall. This is a special omni sound and
highly desirable.

[mljung]

Originally Posted by Plush

More reporting on the 8020 omnis I've been using for a while. . .

I have been using these as the outriggers on orchestra for about a month.

The 8020 sound is very good with a lot of reach to the back of the orchestra and no harshness in the sound. This is not the ideal way to test the mics since they are blended with many others to make the stereo picture. However, the Sennheiser omnis are an appealing sound in this usage test.

To really test the mics on their own I turned to piano recording. Here they offer up a rich sound with a lot of overtones yet a smoothness that other high quality SD mics do not offer. There is a bronze-ish sound to the mic that is appealing. I said before that the mic imparts a "golden halo" to the recorded sound.

Also killer was a brass ensemble in a reverberant hall. This is a special omni sound and
highly desirable.

Thanks Plush -

That was a very positive statement!

Your description seem to fit the kind of omni mic I've been looking for perfectly!
If at all possible I would be more than delighted to hear a few samples of the recordings you describe. That is the piano-recording and the brass ensemble.
Under all circumstances this is very encouraging news!

Would you 'dare' using them as main mics, based on your experience until now? [Do you think they will be able to convey the bite of an orchestra or are they too forgiving?]

Mads

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by Plush

More reporting on the 8020 omnis I've been using for a while. . .

I have been using these as the outriggers on orchestra for about a month.

The 8020 sound is very good with a lot of reach to the back of the orchestra and no harshness in the sound. This is not the ideal way to test the mics since they are blended with many others to make the stereo picture. However, the Sennheiser omnis are an appealing sound in this usage test.

To really test the mics on their own I turned to piano recording. Here they offer up a rich sound with a lot of overtones yet a smoothness that other high quality SD mics do not offer. There is a bronze-ish sound to the mic that is appealing. I said before that the mic imparts a "golden halo" to the recorded sound.

Also killer was a brass ensemble in a reverberant hall. This is a special omni sound and
highly desirable.

Do you also have and use Schoeps MK2 ? If yes, how would you compare ? The local dealer has only 8040 to lend ... (which I may try, although I would be more interested in omni )

[mljung]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

Do you also have and use Schoeps MK2 ? If yes, how would you compare ? The local dealer has only 8040 to lend ... (which I may try, although I would be more interested in omni )

Yes comparison is the key - besides the MK2, the 4006TL would be interesting to compare it with as well, in my view.

[Plush]

I will try to answer several posters and their questions about these omni mics.

There would be no hesitation to use them as a main pair on orchestra or anything else.
We are a house of Schoeps here and what I am impressed about with these 8020 mics is the smoothness and golden quality of the sound. Schoeps, although in general a neutral sounding mic that is not bright, can sometimes have a trebley sheen overlayed on the sound. These Sennheiser omnis do not exhibit that behavior.

Schoeps Mk2 is used and valued here. It is a very flat sound made for fairly close in recording. It is my favorite omni and I know its sound very well. Sennheiser needs to be placed farther away from the sound source and it presents a sound that is sparkly where the Schoeps sounds a little wooly in comparison. Sennheiser sound appears to have more treble. Sennheiser also sounds very flat (this seems like a contradiction
but that is how I would describe it.)

In comparison to B&K 4006 (non TL) the B&K sounds tipped up in the treble with an annoying ultra-sonic treble haze sound right in the region where digital sounds worst. This is the reason that they are less popular now.

I have decided to go back to using the M50's as outriggers on my weekly orchestra recordings instead of using the 8020 SEnn. This is merely because the M50's capture the back of the orchestra (low brass/horns) with more ooommmph, more phatness and more grease. The Sennheiser has too much reach towards the back of the orchestra for use in the hall I am working in. It renders too clearly the sound from the back. I need grease and wooly and bloated sound to manufacture my fantasy sound that I hear in my head in this particular hall.

These Sennheisers will be the new choice for recording piano here though. It's unbelievable to hear on Steinway and Bosendorfer. Check the studio pics in my MySpace link for pics.

Maybe I can post sounds here later. They would be of piano. Most of the stuff I am recording could never be posted here as copies are tightly controlled due to contractual agreements.

[VukOnCrack]

Originally Posted by Plush

These Sennheisers will be the new choice for recording piano here though. It's unbelievable to hear on Steinway and Bosendorfer. Check the studio pics in my MySpace link for pics.

Thanks for the info, Plush. Your MySpace profile is set to private, hence pics onl