New Sennheiser MKH8000 Series Mics

[BrianHanke]

Originally Posted by John Willett

Grant Bridgeman (who wrote the article) is a good guy and an excellent sound recordist. And that was a quick reply - its 02:25 in the morning here in the UK.

(PS - if my posts seem a bit odd tonight, I am on my second bottle of vino, and I have just heard that my uncle has died)

6:30pm here! Sorry to hear about your uncle. I've been working mighty hard recently, so I'm treating myself to a bottle of brandy when I get home in a few hours.

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by BrianHanke

6:30pm here! Sorry to hear about your uncle. I've been working mighty hard recently, so I'm treating myself to a bottle of brandy when I get home in a few hours.

Cheers Brian,

Enjoy - personally I prefer Armagnac, it's a bit smother than Cognac.

Anyway, must to bed, it's almost 3AM here.

[marvin100]

Very sorry to hear about your uncle. Best wishes to you and your family, John.

[Audiop]

Originally Posted by John Willett

The Abbey Road session was written up in LineUp magazine - the pdf of the article is HERE.

The main mics were Sennheiser MKH 8020 with MZD 8000. the spot mics were Sennheiser MKH 8000 series with MZD 8000, Neumann KM-D series and TLM 103-D.

The MZD 8000 is actually stereo and I have been using one with a Y-cable and a pair of MKH 8040 in ORTF onto a Nagra VI with excellent results.

Thanks for the info John.

Sorry to hear about your situation, take care.


/Peter

[Audiop]

I was thinking of these extension tubes/mic stands for the MKH8000 line.

I know these pieces are available in different lengths with two different joints and a base plate.

What I don't know is what combinations that gives the nicest looks for spot miking singers in operas and similar.

I guess an optimum height would be something like 100-120cm with a slight upwards pointing mic (using a card or subcard like 8040 or 8050).

Seems like MZE8060 with MZEF8060 or maybe the MZE8120 with MZEF8030 would be a good solution.

Any thoughts about this or a link to some pictures of set ups using these parts?


/Peter

[0VU]

For standing solo vocalists I usually use single or (more normally) twin Schoeps RC1200g on an STR350g.

So that's a 1200mm extension tube on a 350mm upright rod. It works for most singers. I could use a shorter tube, e.g. a 600/700mm on a taller upright (e.g. 600/1000mm) but I find that having the swivel mount on a short upright with the longer tube, so only the straight, slim tube for most of the height, is visually neater than having the swivel mount higher up/around waist height.

If I had to use the MKH8000 stuff, I'd be looking for a similar setup. YMMV

[Audiop]

Yes I agree.. seems to me that a longer extension tube on a shorter rod will be better visually by getting the swivel mount but also the remote cable closer to the floor.

I have a opera concert later this summer and this conductor typically don't want any visible mic's at or close to the stage. I'm hoping that he will let me put up a solist mic or two if I can make it really neat. :-)

These parts don't come cheap but it looks so much better than a standard mic stand so I think I'm going for it.


/Peter

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by Audiop

I was thinking of these extension tubes/mic stands for the MKH8000 line.

I know these pieces are available in different lengths with two different joints and a base plate.

What I don't know is what combinations that gives the nicest looks for spot miking singers in operas and similar.

I guess an optimum height would be something like 100-120cm with a slight upwards pointing mic (using a card or subcard like 8040 or 8050).

Seems like MZE8060 with MZEF8060 or maybe the MZE8120 with MZEF8030 would be a good solution.

Any thoughts about this or a link to some pictures of set ups using these parts?


/Peter

I think the best combination is the 60 upright and the 120 tube (this is what I am going to get).

The uprights *can* be screwed together to make them longer (the blanking cap at the top unscrews) - I have seen a stand with four of the long ones screwed together to make it extremely tall (the base *did* have several weights on it, though, to make it stable).

A 60 upright and 120 extension will bring the mic. to the correct height and you can always have a second upright if necessary.

[Audiop]

Thanks for input guys!

It's definetely the 120cm tube and either the 30cm or 60cm upright.

The price of these items is a royal pain but OTOH the looks are fantastic and I guess it's worth it if the alternative is no spot mic at all.


/Peter

[Teddy Ray]

Originally Posted by Plush

A famous engineer said about them--" (they have a) waft of disinfectant, surgical spirit and evoke people in white coats."

That said, on the right source they can sound elegant.

This was my problem with them. Analytical sound is not natural to me.

[studer58]

Originally Posted by Audiop

Thanks for input guys!

It's definetely the 120cm tube and either the 30cm or 60cm upright.

The price of these items is a royal pain but OTOH the looks are fantastic and I guess it's worth it if the alternative is no spot mic at all.


/Peter

If you can live with the look of these the price is a royal delight, but I'm afraid I'm saturating this forum with the same old IKEA stand propaganda yet again, so tell me to butt out if you're sick of it by now.....
Ikea makes either the floor stand or table stand bases, hence the differing surface area of the two...but both are flat, square, with 4 rubber feet under....see AA batteries for size comparison. I'd suggest the bigger of the 2 if you had any worries about it being tipped over, or else add a weight or gaffa it to the floor, and let the mic mount do any shock absorbing. I'm showing 2 different possible mic mounts for the 8000, the regular clip or the Invision (which actually draws more visual attention to itself than the regular clip....!) The disassembled picture shows you the range of rod lengths you get if you buy both a floor and a table lamp, and needless to say you can mix and match a variety of these to fine tune your required height according to the height of the singer...much more flexibility available than simply the 120, 30 or 60 that Sennheiser gives you ! Rods you see in the pics are 20,30, 38, 45 cms. Of course the cabling is external, but as you can see with a Sennheiser remote cable and a centimetre or two of spiral wrap around the rod both top and bottom it keeps everything pretty neat. By the way, this type of lighting stand is not unique to Ikea, it's just a set of screwed together threaded rods, and you can probably find the same in your local lighting shop. You can do an Ikea website search for prices, they change the model names every year or so but the items' construction remains the same. Much cheaper, and more flexible re.height fine-tuning, than the 'genuine' product !
Ray

[Audiop]

Thanks for input Ray!

I'm a DIY'er at heart as well so your ideas is very welcome to me. :-)

One thing that worries me a little with the "real deal" is structure born noise up the tube.

The INV mount as you say draws a little more attention.

I have the standard uppright K&M stands with round foot which is relatively good looking with INV-3, however I think I want the option of the neatest solution possible at times when looks are really important.


/Peter

[studer58]

Originally Posted by Audiop

Thanks for input Ray!

I'm a DIY'er at heart as well so your ideas is very welcome to me. :-)

One thing that worries me a little with the "real deal" is structure born noise up the tube.

The INV mount as you say draws a little more attention.

I have the standard uppright K&M stands with round foot which is relatively good looking with INV-3, however I think I want the option of the neatest solution possible at times when looks are really important.


/Peter

Yes, I agree with the slimline visual requirement....sometimes to get to place your mics where you want them to be you have to place a greater than desired consideration on aesthetics, especially in a concert setting where every additional piece of black hardware can be a cause of anxiety to managers, video people etc. Mi Ikea stand is just as prone to transmitting floor borne vibration as the Sennheiser probably is, so if it's a suspended wooden floor I will place a sheet of thick rubber matting under the stand. In addition, I have pumped liquid silicone (typical domestic waterproofing tube stuff) into each rod section of mine, and allowed it to dry a few days on the car dashboard to cure it. At least this gives a lot of internal damping to the rods, and adds a little mass to the whole stand as well. Beyond that, it's up to the invision shock mounts to do their job ! However on stone or concrete floors I'm happy to leave the mic in a regular clip, as there is no vibration transmitted through such material in a typical orchestral or chamber concert, and the stand is about 1 metre in front of the singer/soloist's music stand anyway, so out of harms way !

[John Willett]

The Sennheiser 8000 series stand has an anti-vibration base and is finished in the same non-reflective dark grey Nextel as the microphones are.

Also, the cable runs inside the extension tube (like the Schoeps) for a neater on-stage presence.




Posted via the Gearslutz iPhone app

[0VU]

Originally Posted by Audiop

One thing that worries me a little with the "real deal" is structure born noise up the tube.

The INV mount as you say draws a little more attention.
/Peter

Noise transmission into the setup is a problem, on anything other than a solid stone floor, if someone knocks the stand, or walks past it on a noisy wooden floor/stage, or with artists who like to jig about as they perform.

Schoeps (and presumably Sennheiser), as K+M, incorporate a rubber ring in the bottom of the stand base to help but it doesn't do much apart from stopping the stand from sliding about on steeply raked stages. They do, however, sell a (typically expensive) 270mm diameter foam rubber mat (SM270) to place under the stand, which is far more effective at isolating even quite difficult vibrations. The only problems I have with it are that the ones I have are not black, but light grey (I believe that the current version is black/charcoal grey), and they can get lost if busy stagehands moving stands on a complex show forget to pick them up when they move the stand. (I should probably get creative with some velcro or something but I keep forgetting until the next one is lost.)

I expect that you could find some suitable pieces of foam to isolate either the Sennheiser stands or the Ikea versions .

Incidentally, I don't know about Sennheiser but the standard Schoeps base (BF250) is made of cast iron and doesn't like being dropped onto anything too hard as it tends to crack/shatter. When this has happened to one of mine, I discovered that the metal chuck used to attach the upright rod is simply screwed into the base and it shares a thread size/type with the bases of most round base K+M stands (the base Schoeps sell with their chuck fitted actually looks like one of the K+M stand bases). It's a lot cheaper to buy a complete stand from K+M, and fit the Schoeps chuck from the broken stand, than it is to buy a new base from Schoeps. You also have the option of choosing from a range of different K+M bases, including some of the new grey Nextel finish stands, which look very smart with all the other grey Nextel finished Schoeps rods, tubes, mics, etc.. I now have Nextel bases for most of my extension tubes, particularly those used in more visible roles like front of stage soloists. (The Nextel finished K+M bases however are smaller and lighter than the Schoeps base which is ok on something like a RC1200/STR350 but could be problematically unstable with taller combinations/higher centres of gravity.) Having found that I can buy the chuck from Schoeps as a spare part, and found a company that can do Nextel coating, I've been putting together some slimline stands of my own for my Schoeps stuff using K+M bases and my own Nextel coated rods and fittings.


On the INV mount appearance, I once had a TV director stop a shoot to complain about 'those hideous things on the mics' and wait whilst I swapped them for the Schoeps mounts I usually use. So much for 'In vision'! I do like them in most respects, just not the appearance.

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by 0VU

Noise transmission into the setup is a problem, on anything other than a solid stone floor, if someone knocks the stand, or walks past it on a noisy wooden floor/stage, or with artists who like to jig about as they perform.

Schoeps (and presumably Sennheiser), as K+M, incorporate a rubber ring in the bottom of the stand base to help but it doesn't do much apart from stopping the stand from sliding about on steeply raked stages. They do, however, sell a (typically expensive) 270mm diameter foam rubber mat (SM270) to place under the stand, which is far more effective at isolating even quite difficult vibrations. The only problems I have with it are that the ones I have are not black, but light grey (I believe that the current version is black/charcoal grey), and they can get lost if busy stagehands moving stands on a complex show forget to pick them up when they move the stand. (I should probably get creative with some velcro or something but I keep forgetting until the next one is lost.)

I expect that you could find some suitable pieces of foam to isolate either the Sennheiser stands or the Ikea versions .

Incidentally, I don't know about Sennheiser but the standard Schoeps base (BF250) is made of cast iron and doesn't like being dropped onto anything too hard as it tends to crack/shatter. When this has happened to one of mine, I discovered that the metal chuck used to attach the upright rod is simply screwed into the base and it shares a thread size/type with the bases of most round base K+M stands (the base Schoeps sell with their chuck fitted actually looks like one of the K+M stand bases). It's a lot cheaper to buy a complete stand from K+M, and fit the Schoeps chuck from the broken stand, than it is to buy a new base from Schoeps. You also have the option of choosing from a range of different K+M bases, including some of the new grey Nextel finish stands, which look very smart with all the other grey Nextel finished Schoeps rods, tubes, mics, etc.. I now have Nextel bases for most of my extension tubes, particularly those used in more visible roles like front of stage soloists. (The Nextel finished K+M bases however are smaller and lighter than the Schoeps base which is ok on something like a RC1200/STR350 but could be problematically unstable with taller combinations/higher centres of gravity.) Having found that I can buy the chuck from Schoeps as a spare part, and found a company that can do Nextel coating, I've been putting together some slimline stands of my own for my Schoeps stuff using K+M bases and my own Nextel coated rods and fittings.


On the INV mount appearance, I once had a TV director stop a shoot to complain about 'those hideous things on the mics' and wait whilst I swapped them for the Schoeps mounts I usually use. So much for 'In vision'! I do like them in most respects, just not the appearance.

Thanks 0VU - a most useful post.

Deflex sheets are superb at absorbing vibration - I think it's the modern version of "Sorbothane" that was around in the 1970's.

I use these for absorbing vibration.

I got mine from Canford Audio - but I can't find them on the website at the moment.