High School Musical 2

[PheelTheMusic]

I know I know, Why am I watching High School Musical? Well, my girlfriend is making me... Anyway...

I'm usually not particularly bothered by heavy auto-tune use but for some reason all of these songs are really getting under my skin. Everyone's vocal sounds like an underwater robot singing into a tin can. It's so extreme at some points it must be an intended effect. Any body else hearing this?

tutt to the HSM producers filling young childrens' heads with false idols

[decibel]

I'm sorry.

[chrispick]

Almost all of this made-for-tv Disney stuff is like that. Excessive autotuning. Sounds horrific.

The thing is, I've worked for Disney and I doubt they'd know thing one about auto tuning. Which means this sh*t is likely the result of insecure music producers (i.e, one of us).

[drBill]

Originally Posted by chrispick

Almost all of the this made-for-tv Disney stuff is like that. Excessive autotuning. Sounds horrific.

The thing is, I've worked for Disney and I doubt they'd know thing one about auto tuning. Which means this sh*t is likely the result of insecure music producers (i.e, one of us).

Agreed. When I solo'd vocal only tracks for one of the Mouse's musical girl groups, I almost passed out. Double, triple, quadruple, quintuple times 3. And all auto-tuned to the max. It's just the "sound" they are going for. Not my cup of tea, but it gives that "sound" if that's what you're after.

[warhead]

My daughter LOVES this stuff (12), you should listen to "Hannah Montana" (Billy Ray Cyrus' daught Miley) if you wanna hear some crazy autotune also. I've yet to break the reality to her, probably won't...!

War

[Tommy-boy]

I saw High School Musical 2 tonight. My 9 yr old and 6 yr old loved it.

I did notice that there were TONS of vocal effects (layering, auto tuning, etc...) throughout most of the songs. Way more processing done than I would have expected. Seemed almost over-produced at times.

[mrface2112]

Originally Posted by PheelTheMusic

tutt to the HSM producers filling young childrens' heads with false idols

yeah, but that's been going on for years and years. the monkees? the partridge family? milli vanilli? menudo? new kids and all of the madness that followed--that was a mini beatlemania! the spice girls? ashlee simpson? now we have american (and canadian) idol, HSM and the like. is it really any different now than it was for the monkees?

i mean, at least now the people you see on the tv/movie/tour tend to be the ones who did the "singing" (tuned as it may be), rather than it be a bunch of professional ghosts with miming attractive faces on the tele. that's gotta be worth something, no?

still, all of this stuff is geared towards kids, and i'm with you war--let the kids have their fantasies. ideally, childhood should be all about happiness--reality sets in plenty early enough.....heaven forbid we speed it along (says the father of a 2 year old who's really into Pixar's "Cars" and 80's metal ).


cheers,
wade

[PheelTheMusic]

At some points, besides the auto-tune, it actually seemed to me that some of the vocal tracks were actually extremely lo-fi. I can't put my finger on it. Tons of Auto-tune artifacts maybe?

[PheelTheMusic]

Originally Posted by mrface2112

i mean, at least now the people you see on the tv/movie/tour tend to be the ones who did the "singing" (tuned as it may be), rather than it be a bunch of professional ghosts with miming attractive faces on the tele. that's gotta be worth something, no?

From Rolling Stone:

On not being allowed to sing in High School Musical:
“I didn’t even sing on the first album. It wasn’t my voice in the movie. Even though I wanted to do it. So what do you do when the entire cast is supposed to accept an award at the Billboard Awards and your voice is only on the album in a select few lines. I felt extremely guilty.”

tutt

[mrface2112]

Originally Posted by PheelTheMusic

From Rolling Stone:

yeah, i read that article too. IIRC, that was just one person and that most of them *did* sing.

and i always take ANYTHING i read in rolling stone with a grain of salt (and a shot or four of tequila). using rolling stone as an example of trustworthy journalistic integrity is like using hustler as an example of a mormon text.

anyway, never the less.....are we surprised? and like i said, this has been going on for 40+ years or more.


cheers,
wade

[Tony Shepperd]

You're right, Zac didn't sing for High School Musical. That was Drew Seeley.
But Drew did go on the tour of HSM this summer.

And Zac did sing his own material for Hairspray and HSM2.

[Kenny M]

I'm working on a Disney project right now. When you work with kids who were selected because of how they act, look or dance in addition to their singing talents, you will not ask about why there is so much vocal tuning going on. Even the ones with good voices may not have much studio experience and usually have so many other priorities crammed into their schedules that it's not like you're going to get an unlimited amount of time to track them. You just get the best you can and work with it. This may mean tuning someone until they sound like a sheep or layering in good voices to beef it up.

Some projects are as much about problem solving as they are about working your craft.

[Ironklad Audio]

eh...that damn kid from that movie is from around here, and everywhere i go i have to hear about his pretty-boy little ass and his stupid little disney movie

*yawn*

[Jonboy79]

Originally Posted by Ironklad Audio

eh...that damn kid from that movie is from around here, and everywhere i go i have to hear about his pretty-boy little ass and his stupid little disney movie

*yawn*

Don't get jealous that he's bangin a bunch of Disney sluts and your not.

[ryguydrum@netsc]

Just a little F.Y.I. for anyone who cares.

If you are watching the movie on TV, the music is going
to sound a little strange. In post they didn't mix the movie
in 5.1, but they used an effect that splits up the audio into
a fake 5.1 mix (much like that button on your stereo receiver
that does the same thing). They used this effect on all of the
songs in the film. Now, the interesting thing about this effect
is that the more tracks and processing that were used on the
particular song, the worse the phase cancellation and "lack
of center" there was in the mix.

My mix got whacked pretty hard considering I had 128 tracks
with a whole lot of reverbs going on. . .

So, you can imagine my horror (as well as anybody else who
worked on it) when we heard it coming out of our stereos and
the lead vocal sounded like it was coming out of a paper towel
tube

However, the music on the actual CD was not messed with in any
way to make it sound worse.

So, for those who care, there you have it. . .

[PheelTheMusic]

Originally Posted by ryguydrum@netsc

Just a little F.Y.I. for anyone who cares.

If you are watching the movie on TV, the music is going
to sound a little strange. In post they didn't mix the movie
in 5.1, but they used an effect that splits up the audio into
a fake 5.1 mix (much like that button on your stereo receiver
that does the same thing). They used this effect on all of the
songs in the film. Now, the interesting thing about this effect
is that the more tracks and processing that were used on the
particular song, the worse the phase cancellation and "lack
of center" there was in the mix.

My mix got whacked pretty hard considering I had 128 tracks
with a whole lot of reverbs going on. . .

So, you can imagine my horror (as well as anybody else who
worked on it) when we heard it coming out of our stereos and
the lead vocal sounded like it was coming out of a paper towel
tube

However, the music on the actual CD was not messed with in any
way to make it sound worse.

So, for those who care, there you have it. . .

It sounded to me like horrible phasing artifacts happening on the vocal tracks and I guess now we have an explanation why.

Regardless, my girlfriend loved it....and I'm sure millions of others did too.

[Sid Viscous]

I hate all that fake shit. That's why my kids only listen to Alice Cooper and Iggy Pop.

[andrewj]

my daughter loves it, too. And be honest guys there is so much work done the AutoTune raod or the celemony way I still wait for the day where

Artist: Mel D feat. Jay Z is changed for: Mel D. feat. Cel McMelodyne and Grandmaster AutoTune

Sid: My daughter also loves good ol Alice, but she also loves the sweet cloned kids from High School Musical! Kid's have no reservation against Melodyne and Auto Tune!

[Brad_Wood]

Originally Posted by ryguydrum@netsc

Just a little F.Y.I. for anyone who cares.

If you are watching the movie on TV, the music is going
to sound a little strange. My mix got whacked pretty hard considering I had 128 tracks
with a whole lot of reverbs going on. . .

So, for those who care, there you have it. . .

Wow. Even my 10 year old daughter noticed the extreme phase & hollow tube effect whenever the music portions started. We tried changing the settings on our home stereo to no good result. Really, really bad decision on the Mouse's part. Thanks for the inside scoop!


Best- Brad

[DeBasement]

Having worked on lots of kids' tv music, as well as having made a living writing network TV scripts for years, the robotic over-produced part of High School Musical 2 didn't surprise me that much. What really bugged me was how run-of-the-mill and just downright lazy most of the songwriting was. I guess I expected for something that was such a huge hit, the songs would at least have some catchy hooks or cool production. None of it. Just more forgettable musical '3's dressed up as, um, 6's. There's actually some very hip kid music out there these days... but High School Musical aint it.

The only bright spot is that maybe the huge success of this franchise is encouraging other TV types to revisit the long dormant musical genre. Maybe a few years now we'll actually see something GOOD!

Then again, the success of High School Musical (and Hillary Duff, for that matter) is testament to the fact that marketing muscle beats quality any day of the week. If you own the tv network, the record label and half the known media universe, you can TELL the public what's a hit and what isn't... Makes the Monkees seem like true artistes by comparison....

sigh.

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by PheelTheMusic

I know I know, Why am I watching High School Musical? Well, my girlfriend is making me... Anyway...

I'm usually not particularly bothered by heavy auto-tune use but for some reason all of these songs are really getting under my skin. Everyone's vocal sounds like an underwater robot singing into a tin can. It's so extreme at some points it must be an intended effect. Any body else hearing this?

tutt to the HSM producers filling young childrens' heads with false idols

I caught a quick piece on it on NPR and I noticed the AT right away.

That's sad.


Uh... just how old is your GF? I was unaware of HSM1 (as I guess one would say) but NPR seemed to indicate Disney had targeted both movies and their ancillary marketing directly at "tweens" -- you know, 10-14 year olds.

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by Sid Viscous

I hate all that fake shit. That's why my kids only listen to Alice Cooper and Iggy Pop.

Yeah... nothing fake about Alice Cooper.

A nice Christian boy acting like a Satanist.

[Jim Williams]

I've heard some kids singing like they are on autotune and compression naturally. They are "training" their voices to sound like the processing but without the processing!

Yes, it sounds really weird, almost painful. Kids do emulate, and they are clever. Just not enough to realize that what they are copying is not real. But heck, once they can emulate it good enough, it becomes real.

Personally, I would just rent a bottle of helium and go for it. Nothing sounds as alien as 3 part helium harmonies! Other gases cause other voicings to occur, so the entire line up of non toxic gas is an option for new vocal sounds.

BTW, I saw High School Musical. It was called "Grease". At least those folks sang raw.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[PheelTheMusic]

Originally Posted by theblue1

Uh... just how old is your GF? I was unaware of HSM1 (as I guess one would say) but NPR seemed to indicate Disney had targeted both movies and their ancillary marketing directly at "tweens" -- you know, 10-14 year olds.

She's 20 and still very much into Disney Channel...

[Jim Williams]

Originally Posted by PheelTheMusic

She's 20 and still very much into Disney Channel...

And she will be running the world in 30 years!

Now that's a scary thought.

Maybe Disney should break into the beer biz, seems the kids are that loyal.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[RKrizman]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

And she will be running the world in 30 years!

Now that's a scary thought.

Maybe Disney should break into the beer biz, seems the kids are that loyal.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

The really scary thought is that the people running the world now (ostensibly us) 40 or 50 years ago were watching Annette Funicello and "Cubby"on the Mickey Mouse Club, chanting "see ya real soon" along with Jimmy, and would get up out of their chairs and yell at the tv "I do believe in fairies, I do believe in fairies"!

That could explain a lot of what's going on out there now.

-R

[Sid Viscous]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

I've heard some kids singing like they are on autotune and compression naturally. They are "training" their voices to sound like the processing but without the processing!

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

Like when Brits sing like Americans because they grew up singing with American singers and singers who listened to American singers.

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by PheelTheMusic

She's 20 and still very much into Disney Channel...

Oh.

[C Heat]

I would soo love to be on the royalty end of that CD...

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by C Heat

I would soo love to be on the royalty end of that CD...

Me too.