High School Musical 2

[Pepe Ortega]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

I've heard some kids singing like they are on autotune and compression naturally. They are "training" their voices to sound like the processing but without the processing!


Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

Yes. incredible, but my daughter (6 yeard old) sings very well. She listen all time high school, Hilary duff and lots of disney musicals.. When she sings this songs, I can listen her with "autotune" integrated in her voice
Now, I´m mixing a project and the singer wanted to sounds like High school singers. When I put autotune on her tracks she was very happy..

[doug_hti]

Originally Posted by ryguydrum@netsc

Just a little F.Y.I. for anyone who cares.

If you are watching the movie on TV, the music is going
to sound a little strange. In post they didn't mix the movie
in 5.1, but they used an effect that splits up the audio into
a fake 5.1 mix (much like that button on your stereo receiver
that does the same thing). They used this effect on all of the
songs in the film. Now, the interesting thing about this effect
is that the more tracks and processing that were used on the
particular song, the worse the phase cancellation and "lack
of center" there was in the mix.

My mix got whacked pretty hard considering I had 128 tracks
with a whole lot of reverbs going on. . .

So, you can imagine my horror (as well as anybody else who
worked on it) when we heard it coming out of our stereos and
the lead vocal sounded like it was coming out of a paper towel
tube

However, the music on the actual CD was not messed with in any
way to make it sound worse.

So, for those who care, there you have it. . .

I had heard this as well...and that it was quite a shock watching the premier last week.

This same thing also happened to a colleague of mine using the SRS labs surround encoder. You mix that with with some wrong settings (of the end user) on the receiver or tv and you have a disaster. In the mix/post room, the plugin actually seems to do a descent job of pseudo 5.1....but getting folded down, opened up, folded down, etc....does a number

[lucey]

Originally Posted by DeBasement

The only bright spot is that maybe the huge success of this franchise is encouraging other TV types to revisit the long dormant musical genre. Maybe a few years now we'll actually see something GOOD!

Then again, the success of High School Musical (and Hillary Duff, for that matter) is testament to the fact that marketing muscle beats quality any day of the week. If you own the tv network, the record label and half the known media universe, you can TELL the public what's a hit and what isn't... Makes the Monkees seem like true artistes by comparison....

The thing became a hit with no marketing ... the first run was ignored by Disney. It's the times.

[Jules]

Originally Posted by Kenny M

I'm working on a Disney project right now. When you work with kids who were selected because of how they act, look or dance in addition to their singing talents, you will not ask about why there is so much vocal tuning going on. Even the ones with good voices may not have much studio experience and usually have so many other priorities crammed into their schedules that it's not like you're going to get an unlimited amount of time to track them. You just get the best you can and work with it. This may mean tuning someone until they sound like a sheep or layering in good voices to beef it up.

Some projects are as much about problem solving as they are about working your craft.

Pre Auto Tune, back in the early 80's I assisted on recordings for a children's TV series called Mini-Pops here in the UK, with 6-8 year olds singing covers of popular hits . It was pretty excruciating for the session muso's & the studio team. I recall that hearing a very small boy attempting to sing Stevie Wonder's "you are the sunshine of my life' - was particularly painful, actually it was awful..

[HIGHENDONLY]

Originally Posted by warhead

My daughter LOVES this stuff (12), you should listen to "Hannah Montana" (Billy Ray Cyrus' daught Miley) if you wanna hear some crazy autotune also. I've yet to break the reality to her, probably won't...!

War

When it's time to tell them their's no santa claus or easter bunny, you can whisper the truth and what autotune is to them.

Warren "you know all those disney cds you use to like and listen too"
Daughter "OMG!!! yes i love them, they sing amazing"
Warren "Well hun, their really is a computer helping them sing"
Daughter "No daddy it's really them singing"
Warren "No sweety, it's not their real voice"
Daughter "GO TO HELL DADDY!!!YOU TELL ME THEIR"S NO SANTA CLAUS AND EASTER BUNNY AND ALL MY FAVORITE SONGS ARE SUNG BY A COMPUTER"
Warren "Yes i'm so sorry sweety"
Daughter "Daddy"
Warren "yes dear"
Daughter "why do all my friends say i look more like the mail man's kid than yours"
Warren "SCREAMS OUT FOR HIS WIFE"S ATTENTION"

[vixapphire]

Originally Posted by PheelTheMusic

I know I know, Why am I watching High School Musical? Well, my girlfriend is making me... Anyway...

I'm usually not particularly bothered by heavy auto-tune use but for some reason all of these songs are really getting under my skin. Everyone's vocal sounds like an underwater robot singing into a tin can. It's so extreme at some points it must be an intended effect. Any body else hearing this?

tutt to the HSM producers filling young childrens' heads with false idols

I caught a few moments of this as well, walking through as my wife was checking it out on the tube. She mentioned the autotune first, laughing. It was so heavily applied that all the characters' singing voices sounded like they were done by one guy and a gal. The only thing missing was the Daft Punk robot helmets.

[GearGuy]

I noticed it right away also, especially since I've watched the first movie far to many times with my own children. I was actually quite impressed with the first movie, as it was all simply done and pretty much pure and innocent vs most of the other "kids entertainment" that is out there. (Normally my 10 and 6 year old girls would never be allowed to watch ANYTHING that deals with high school kids.)

Anyway, the new movie sounded heavily processed in the vocals as opposed to the first movie. I mentioned it to my kids, but they just said I was being the crazy-studio-dad again and continued to ignore my comments. What was really interesting was the song they they liked the most (Troy's solo song) was the one that I thought sounded the most awful with the vocal processing! I'm surprised the Disney aired the movie with this surround encoding mistake...

[Kenny Gioia]

I love this business!!!!!

Something is hugely successful and everyone wants to beat on it.

It's got to be really hard to become successful when you hate everything that is.

Think about it.

Peace.

(BTW - I saw Corbin Bleu in concert a few weeks ago and I was very impressed. Mark my words. This kid is for real.)

[lucey]

Originally Posted by Produceher

I love this business!!!!!

Something is hugely successful and everyone wants to beat on it.

It's got to be really hard to become successful when you hate everything that is.

Think about it.

Peace.

These criticisms don't seem to be down on the "success", more on the quality of the material. Soda Pop and McDonalds are successful but still ripe for critique. You can respect a success and criticize the content.

Think about it.

Peace.

[chrispick]

Originally Posted by lucey

You can respect a success and criticize the content.

Right, of course.

I don't begrudge anyone their success with the project. In that arena, it's really all about making money selling candy anyway. No pretenses of heady substance from the get-go.

I am, however, bemused by the technique which I think sounds peculiarly and conspicuously inhuman.

I'm not an Auto Tune hater, either. It's an "improvement" tool just like many other studio tricks.

It's just -- how can I put it? --

Your girlfriend goes in for a make-over.

Comes out and asks, "How do I look?"

And you want to respond, "Where's your face?"

[Kenny M]

Originally Posted by DeBasement

What really bugged me was how run-of-the-mill and just downright lazy most of the songwriting was. I guess I expected for something that was such a huge hit, the songs would at least have some catchy hooks or cool production. None of it. Just more forgettable musical '3's dressed up as, um, 6's. There's actually some very hip kid music out there these days... but High School Musical aint it.

Well.... I thought the songs were somewhat dated sounding, but I can tell you this. I've had 4 calls in the last two weeks for tv show promos and commercials all wanting music in the vibe of, you guessed it... High School Musical. It's sure catching on with somebody so to whoever wrote it I say - Good Job! Please don't sue me when you start hearing all the soundalike tunes that are destined to come your way. I haven't had this many of the same requests from creative directors since " Let's Get It Started" - Black Eyed Peas.

This will also mean I'll get to use the same drum machine/ drum/ percussion tracks for several different projects. Thanks you High School Musical. What time is it... time to make some clients happy and get paid.

Reading this back really reveals what a musical ***** I am. Oh well, sometimes it's art and sometimes it's just exercising a craft. Gotta love it either way.

[C Heat]

Originally Posted by Kenny M

It's sure catching on with somebody so to whoever wrote it I say - Good Job!

Some of the music sounds like pre-pre-pre Backstreet days, but MUCH more cornier and cheesier. Orchestral hits anyone? Obviously the kids love it. It's totally 'their' sound, and they wear it with pride.

[Tony Shepperd]

Could it be that this music works because it's just good clean fun.
As a parent of 4 kids (ages 16, 14, 12 and 10), I find it refreshing for them to watch HSM2.

Honestly, I'm sick of the current crop of "wanna be" role models and glad to see something that's a little more squeaky clean.

[swisha31]

Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd

Could it be that this music works because it's just good clean fun.
As a parent of 4 kids (ages 16, 14, 12 and 10), I find it refreshing for them to watch HSM2.

Honestly, I'm sick of the current crop of "wanna be" role models and glad to see something that's a little more squeaky clean.

I give these actors and actresses on this movie 2 years before they are out doing the same exact things lindsay lohan, paris hilton, and brittney spears are out doing. you know the usual, underage drinking, running in and out of clubs, whoring it up, experimenting with drugs. these other "stars" started out the same way with these squeaky clean personas. it takes a strong inner circle to keep you from acquiring huge ego and taking fame to the head unless you are a very grounded person yourself. How hollywood is set up now, they are always looking for the next "it" and if any of these(zach effron most likely) become the next "it", it will be all downhill for him but uphill for his bank account.

[Rezman]

My 9yr old daughter and 7yr old son love the HSM movies.

Personally I'm delighted that they are getting in to a musical in preference to some of the other bilge thats is on the box!

Every time I hear them (and Hannah Montana etc) I cringe at the Autotuning. I've mentioned it to my wife and kids a number of times and the usual response is "Huh?".

At the end of the day, the Movies are a hit with thier target audience, and are for the most part just good clean fun.

All success to them...



R

[warhead]

Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd

Could it be that this music works because it's just good clean fun.
As a parent of 4 kids (ages 16, 14, 12 and 10), I find it refreshing for them to watch HSM2.

Honestly, I'm sick of the current crop of "wanna be" role models and glad to see something that's a little more squeaky clean.

I thought we were talking about Autotune, but on this subject I totally agree. It's nice to know my kids enjoy this stuff and aren't caught up in feeling like dorks because they like innocent stuff (5 kids, ages 12, 10, 8, 4 and 2...you've been trumped!).

And #6 on the way! You can't outbreed me man, don't even try...

I recorded it for them the night it premiered, and they already have a DVD of it spinning daily...and my daughter planned a party for all her friends to sleep over and watch it together...it has consumed our household.

War

[Kenny M]

Originally Posted by C Heat

Some of the music sounds like pre-pre-pre Backstreet days, but MUCH more cornier and cheesier. Orchestral hits anyone? Obviously the kids love it. It's totally 'their' sound, and they wear it with pride.

That's kind of funny as I just finished another song on a kids project and the song I was given as a reference had orchestra hits all over it. Are they making a comeback?

It was hard to use them in the tune without shaking my head everytime my finger pressed the key, but that's what the producer wanted and that's what he gets. It may be dated to us, but I guess not to a 10 year old.

[C Heat]

Originally Posted by Kenny M

It may be dated to us, but I guess not to a 10 year old.

Precisely

[C Heat]

Originally Posted by decibel

I'm sorry.

Don't be Andy

I wouldn't be.

[hanuman]

Pity! I thought HSM 1 was an milestone in comparing the 'real deal' to the 'best artificiality.

[dkatz42]

Originally Posted by DeBasement

What really bugged me was how run-of-the-mill and just downright lazy most of the songwriting was. I guess I expected for something that was such a huge hit, the songs would at least have some catchy hooks or cool production.

It hasn't been the same since Mary Poppins (1964, IIRC.) I'm old enough to have seen it in first run (barely.) It still holds up pretty well, if you overlook Dick Van Dyke's terrible fake cockney accent.

But then I'm a sucker for a good overture. They don't seem to make those much any more; I fear it's a lost art form. Or maybe they're just called remixes now.

[PettyCash]

Originally Posted by Pepe Ortega

Yes. incredible, but my daughter (6 yeard old) sings very well. She listen all time high school, Hilary duff and lots of disney musicals.. When she sings this songs, I can listen her with "autotune" integrated in her voice
Now, I´m mixing a project and the singer wanted to sounds like High school singers. When I put autotune on her tracks she was very happy..

I have an artist on my indie label that sings like autotuner is on his voice, and still requests that autotuner be put on his vocals afterwards for that pitch bending effect.

I dont really complain about it though. I guess one T-Pain isnt often enough...

[Jim vanBergen]

I had to leave the room during HSM2. God, it was hard to watch. Ryguydrum, I totally appreciate your work and hear how it was folded on itself...even my kids asked where the center channel went and why the stereo image "went away". I've done some stuff for 'the Mouse' and been very upset with how the best intentions can destroy all the integrity brought to something by someone who cares. No wonder people stop caring after being beat up time and time again.

Originally Posted by warhead

My daughter LOVES this stuff (12), you should listen to "Hannah Montana" (Billy Ray Cyrus' daught Miley) if you wanna hear some crazy autotune also. I've yet to break the reality to her, probably won't...!

War

Having worked with Mylie Cyrus as well as the "Cheetah Girls" cast, I can tell ya, at least she CAN sing when she's allowed to, and she has some good abilities for a young girl. Her manager, a very nice guy, asked for her to sync to track, but she sang better than the autotuned track and I used her voice, unprocessed & live --instead of the vocal track I was instructed to use-- for a premiere event...and she wowed the crowd. I put her backing tracks behind her for harmonies and choruses, gave her some of her lead track and some of herself in her IEMs, and everyone was happy.

Mylie was the real deal AFAIC, and the Cheetah cast...didn't come close. They were also completely full of themselves, demanding of minutae, and badly -no, horribly- managed and produced.

Mylie was also polite and humble... I was shocked and amazed. My kids can watch her as much as they want.

Just thought it was an interesting sidenote.

[warhead]

Jim, thanks for sharing. My kids can't get enough of her either. I have a new-found respect for her at least knowing she doesn't NEED Autotune I suppose.

It is quite obvious on a lot of what I hear on the record my daughter has though.

War

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by Jim vanBergen

Having worked with Mylie Cyrus as well as the "Cheetah Girls" cast, I can tell ya, at least she CAN sing when she's allowed to, and she has some good abilities for a young girl. Her manager, a very nice guy, asked for her to sync to track, but she sang better than the autotuned track and I used her voice, unprocessed & live --instead of the vocal track I was instructed to use-- for a premiere event...and she wowed the crowd. I put her backing tracks behind her for harmonies and choruses, gave her some of her lead track and some of herself in her IEMs, and everyone was happy.

Mylie was the real deal AFAIC, and the Cheetah cast...didn't come close. They were also completely full of themselves, demanding of minutae, and badly -no, horribly- managed and produced.

Mylie was also polite and humble... I was shocked and amazed. My kids can watch her as much as they want.

Just thought it was an interesting sidenote.

That's good to hear. As someone who listens to this stuff quite often, I also can tell that she has some real talent. I predict that she will eventually have her Bonnie Raitt "Nick of Time" moment.

Even with all those effects it's easy to tell that she CAN sing which proves my point about all of our tools not changing that much. The good drummers and singers will always stand out. You can't fool anyone who doesn't want to be fooled.

[Chaellus]

my sisters would watch the disney channel constatinyly both 8 and 12 and when i had heard the material sonically it sounded totatlly phased out i proabably noticed within the first 5 minutes and caught my attention sat down and observed this for awhile....and i guess seeing from posts above that it actually was happening...i thought maybe at first it was the tv stations screwup but time and time agian..it happpened so i guess im not going insane.

[nedorama]

If you think HSM is processed, wait until you hear Camp Rock... much, much worse. Unhuman vocal harmonies.

My daughter listens to HSM and Hanna, and I prefer the Hanna stuff. I think having her dad having been in the music biz has helped.

also, if Auto Tune is for those who can't sing, this is for those who can't play:
celemony_ :: Direct Note Access :: Media

If you haven't seen this, it's scary. Scary in that this could be used for good or unspeakable evil...