What would you say about my overheads?

[Baykush]

I was not very happy with my overhead sound before and tried an ms set up with Blue Kiwi as figure-8 side and km184 as mid. I don't see many people doing ms for overheads but liked the results for my self. Much better then 2 km 184 in xy and in spaced pair. The pictures are attached. Any comments?..

[mrsteaks]

Well, you liked it. That's important. Pictures looked cool, but don't describe the sound. Care to post a clip?

[cleantone]

Well, you liked it. That's important. Pictures looked cool, but don't describe the sound. Care to post a clip?

ditto

[Jim vanBergen]

I find with rock drum kits sometimes I need to close mic the cymbals, sometimes I need to go higher, and sometimes I need to add (or use only) room mics. Ya gotta do what works for you. If M-S is the thing, then great, and we're glad you're finding what works for your projects & mixes.

I end up doing so many live broadcasts with whatever the drum OH position has been for live reinforcement, that I have learned to work with what I have, tweak and not freak. IMO it's a luxury to be able to pick and choose placement.

JvB

[fifthcircle]

I use the Shure VP88 as a single point M-S mic regularly... Generally, I prefer to put a M-S pair in front of the kit rather than as overheads, but it will work well there.

The one suggestion I'd make, though, is to position it a bit more "into" the kit aiming straight down at the snare. You'll get plenty of cymbal and you'll get a much better sound on the snare. M-S is very sensitive to positioning from what I've found. If it isn't in the right place, it really isn't going to sound good. Get it right, though, and it brings a level of focus to your sound that you won't get with other pickup patterns.

--Ben

[LX3]

I like m-s overheads too in some circumstances. I used it for Seb with Polar Bear recently.

See my pics at:

http://www.lx3.co.uk/gallery/large-15.html
http://www.lx3.co.uk/gallery/large-16.html

Makes sense to me for jazz, where I'm trying to pick up a picture of the whole kit rather than relying on the close mics for 80% of the sound. It's good because you can put the snare right in the sweet spot of the mid mic, whereas in most other overhead arrangements it's going to be a bit off-axis. Plus it allows me to choose how wide the kit sounds and where in the stereo image I place it, both of which are really useful for jazz (I might put the drums off-centre to reflect the way the band set up on stage, and similarly, I might want the image quite narrow... the cymbals aren't positioned either side of the stage after all). Panning most other overhead arrangements (e.g. spaced or ORTF) is going to fudge the sound.

The problem sometimes is that the figure of 8 can pick up a lot of spill (certainly did with Polar Bear - wow they play loud)... depends how much of the side signal you're throwing in. Luckily we were using a KM84, which seemed weirdly spill-resistant for a cardioid. The other trick of course is getting the whole thing as low as possible without making the drummer uncomfortable.

(One thing with Seb is you have to make sure his hair isn't going to be in the way . Love you Seb.)

I'm keen to try X-Y SDC hypercardioids next time... less spill maybe? Rather difficult to predict.

Paul

[Baykush]

thanks for suggestions. I couldn't post a clip since I've not made my rough mixes. Next time I'll try to post one.
By the way my Beyerdynamic m160's are coming in a week. I'm very curious about using them as overheads. Does anyone has experienced them? Those will be the first ribbons I'll have.(dreaming royers for now)

[zaczac]

Plenty of love for M160's on overhead duty around here, myself included.

[WannaBStudioNut]

Originally Posted by LX3

I like m-s overheads too in some circumstances. I used it for Seb with Polar Bear recently.

See my pics at:

http://www.lx3.co.uk/gallery/large-15.html
http://www.lx3.co.uk/gallery/large-16.html

Makes sense to me for jazz, where I'm trying to pick up a picture of the whole kit rather than relying on the close mics for 80% of the sound. It's good because you can put the snare right in the sweet spot of the mid mic, whereas in most other overhead arrangements it's going to be a bit off-axis. Plus it allows me to choose how wide the kit sounds and where in the stereo image I place it, both of which are really useful for jazz (I might put the drums off-centre to reflect the way the band set up on stage, and similarly, I might want the image quite narrow... the cymbals aren't positioned either side of the stage after all). Panning most other overhead arrangements (e.g. spaced or ORTF) is going to fudge the sound.

The problem sometimes is that the figure of 8 can pick up a lot of spill (certainly did with Polar Bear - wow they play loud)... depends how much of the side signal you're throwing in. Luckily we were using a KM84, which seemed weirdly spill-resistant for a cardioid. The other trick of course is getting the whole thing as low as possible without making the drummer uncomfortable.

(One thing with Seb is you have to make sure his hair isn't going to be in the way . Love you Seb.)

I'm keen to try X-Y SDC hypercardioids next time... less spill maybe? Rather difficult to predict.

Paul

Hey Paul. Great pic's. What kind of Splitter are you using?

[LX3]

Originally Posted by WannaBStudioNut

Hey Paul. Great pic's. What kind of Splitter are you using?

You mean this splitter?

http://www.lx3.co.uk/gallery/large-8.html

It's "home-made". I often get asked where I got it. People don't believe me when I tell them.

I made 24 separate PCB modules, each board carrying the XLRs, a Lundahl transformer and other components. The modules bolt into a custom steel case, and everything's also wired to two 85-pin Veams. It took two years to design and build mind you... and cost a fortune (more than a Whirlwind). I worried for a long time that it would never get finished. But it works great, sounds fabulous, so I feel a bit better about it now.

I'm hoping to get myself a pair of Klark-Tekniks next time.

[mrsteaks]

Originally Posted by LX3

You mean this splitter?

LX3 Photo Gallery - IMG_0489

It's "home-made". I often get asked where I got it. People don't believe me when I tell them.

Paul, that's gorgeous piece of work! I can imagine people don't believe you when you tell them you made it. Very, very nice.

[Remoteness]

Originally Posted by zaczac

Plenty of love for M160's on overhead duty around here, myself included.

I have used different mics for O/H, but...

The M160s are (still) my first "go to" mic choice for drum overheads.

Been using them for decades on all styles of music.

[LX3]

Originally Posted by mrsteaks

Paul, that's gorgeous piece of work! I can imagine people don't believe you when you tell them you made it. Very, very nice.

At some point I will start a little thread about that splitter, with some photos of the insides, since people are always asking.

On the ribbon front, I've long been keen to get an M130 and try it as the side mic in a m-s overhead arrangement. But I struggle to justify spending the money, seeing as 95% of the time, I'm recording rock/indie/pop with the ubiquitous spaced 414s.

I hoped I'd stopped spending money on mics (Yeah, like that'll happen)... Because I worked out the other day that I would never recoup that money - artists love to use my mics, but never want to pay for them! Compounded by things like finding out that one of my Beta98s, which I've used about four times in the last two years, has stopped working. Plus I should be saving for an X-48...

Does anyone else find that every time a gig comes along, they use it as an excuse to spend another couple of hundred on something? dfegad

Paul

[zaczac]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

I have used different mics for O/H, but...

The M160s are (still) my first "go to" mic choice for drum overheads.

Been using them for decades on all styles of music.

Yeah I really should thank you for that. I first considered them after reading one of your posts, and they were exactly what I wanted.

[Remoteness]

Very nice -- Thanks for the mention.

Some folks really don't like them, but that's cool with me!

Originally Posted by zaczac

Yeah I really should thank you for that. I first considered them after reading one of your posts, and they were exactly what I wanted.