remote recording destined for 5.1 mixes, ala/VH1 anyone here wanna advise?

[cajonezzz]

I'd like to get into surround by recording some local live shows with a DVD / surround mix in mind.

what surround specific issues would there be , micing techniques that need to be addressed etc.
any special choices of gear/mics for surround destined stuff?

We'd also wanna mix for a stereo release.

thanks!

[fifthcircle]

Whatever you do, don't send a stereo mix through one of the stereo to surround conversion boxes... I've heard more great mixes ruined by that than I'd care to think about.

I don't do much surround live work, but I usually try to capture the ambience of being in the front row center of the show... Unless there are major theatrics, the normal stereo rules apply, but they are spread around you to about 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock (half way between your right/left and surrounds)... Audience reaction is behind you... If you have the opporunity to hang a surround mic array, that can help things along, but a lot of popular music tends to suffer when there is too much ambient sound from PA stacks, etc... It is a careful balance, but it can create a very exciting recording. IMO, live stuff benefits the most from surround recording.


--Ben

[Remoteness]

IMHO, there are "no rules" when it comes to techniques.
Do you want the listener to feel as if they're in the perfect seat or do you want them to feel like they're standing on stage surrounded by the band? It doesn't only have to be about the ambient sound. Experimentation is a wonderful thing.

The biggest people in this business think they got it going on with regard to live surround recording. Do you like what you hear on TV? Their remixed stuff sounds a lot better, but why should you follow them? Carve you're own thing out. Try something different.

On the equipment side of things there are a few cool toys out there...

The Tascam DSM7.1 and Studio Technologies model 78 central controller with model 79 control console come to mind. I'm sure more folks could chime in with other groovy surround gadgets -- What about that surround mic array system that's available for rental or for sale for buku bucks?

[Nathanael]

You mean the SoundField? If you need surround and stereo both, it would be pretty hard to top.

If you record just the raw output of the soundfield, you can later run the tracks through the processor and remix the surround stuff, or later output stereo. Very practical.

It is about as close to a point source as physics allows, and so is very coincident, if that is important for imaging.

[Tim Halligan]

There is also the SPL(?) 5.0 system, which uses Brauner capsules on a custom mount (looks like an avant garde loungeroom ceiling fixture). SPL have a custom pre/mix box, and the .1 output is derived there. Each channel has limited eq and routing, with level control and direct out. It may be possible to derive a stereo mix simultaneously with the surround. It does cost bucketloads, but I believe some of the big classical concert halls have taken to the system, for both live radio, and archiving for future release in surround.

Cheers,
Tim

[Remoteness]

The Soundfield is a great box but I was thinking of the SPL unit Tim mentioned. Have you seen the mic array? It really can double as an interesting piece of art.

[fifthcircle]

At NAMM this year, The Microtech Geffel folks had a really cool 5 channel array on display... They had it rigged up with M930s which I would imagine would make a pretty kick-ass surround array for a reasonable price.

http://www.microtechgefell.de/Zubehoer/ina5a.htm (It is in german, but you'll get the point).

--Ben

[Biber]

hi all,
only a few comments..

there are some infos on the web for surr-micing, for example
Newsletter No. 6
perhaps you can and some shotgun´s or so..

i´ve seen and heard some very nice recordings (drums/church-organ/and of couse live) done with the ATMOS from SPL, (including a nice "happy birthday" performance including elliot scheiner and chuck ainlay :-))
i think it´s hte best solution for live surr-micing

and i know that peter brandt from eurosound owns a atmos for his live DVD recordings, he simply is gemans greatest live-recordist and i had a chance to work with him once last year, very interesting

and...
one picture from my first (and til today last) live-surr recording (only a fun thing with my band) with my own build INA-5 setup, placed direct above the FOH

.. yess i know.. not really first class.. but it worked

[Biber]

upps, sorry didn´t know that it would be THAT big

[Gerax]

Biber

That looks like a "surround Decca Tree" to me, nice setup; that kind of mic array is just what I was reading about on some article on Mix magazine a few months ago, and I'm really dying to try it out, in fact I'm talking one of my clients into doing a surround DVD of one the projects we're about to start, it will involve a string section and will be recorded in a church, so that's a good location fo some surround experimentation.

I was thinking about setting up a rear stereo pair along my usual front pair, pointing toward the back of the hall, kind of like an AB technique, or a spaced pair; given the fact that you don't have to move them around in mixing, the right width could be decided right there, with carefull evaluation of phase issues.

I agree with the above, experimentation is key here, the other most important factor (apart for client satisfaction and quality) is having fun

Cheers

L.G.

[sonare]

Originally posted by fifthcircle
Whatever you do, don't send a stereo mix through one of the stereo to surround conversion boxes... I've heard more great mixes ruined by that than I'd care to think about.

--Ben

Surely you don't mean the Z-Systems box! Bob Katz thinks pretty highly of it, esp as it costs about $13k.

Rich

[fifthcircle]

I have no idea what the recordings used that I heard unwrapped, but they were pretty dreadful (they also weren't classical).

One in particular ended up with the vocals in the center of all 5 speakers so there was the diffuse sound where you couldn't understand a word of what was being said. The stereo mix was quite good, though...

--Ben