Ok!! Anyone here Recorded a Sousaphone?......Live???

[WannaBStudioNut]

Hey GS's!!! Anyone here Recorded a Sousaphone live or Studio before???

I'm Live Recording a Brass band next month, and doing my homework on the best Technique of Recording this Puppy!!! There a Great band and i want to get the best results i can get!!

I went and seen them play last week to get a heads up on Recording them. Got the rest of the band pretty much sorted. (Love to hear your ideas on them too if you like)

EXCEPT for the Sousaphone!!!!!!!

First Set is

4 Pce Kit +HH, 2x Crash and Ride
Bass DI
Trombone
2 Sax Players, Baritone, and Soprano
Elec Guitar
Main Vocalist/ who plays Bass

Second and Third Set is

Cocktail Kit + Hi Hat and Splash
Trombone
2 Sax Players, Baritone, and Soprano
Electric Guitar
Main Vocalist/ Who plays Trombone ****Same Mic****

AND........... the Sousaphone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The guy moves around stage with it quite a bit (i dont know how, cause there HUGE!!!).

He's currently running the Sousaphone through the Bass Players Rig (standard 4 x 10 rig) Using a SM57 mounted some how in the Bell, and they DI the Signal to FOH.

The Sousaphone Accousticly. Sounds pretty cool. Running through the Bass Cab is a little less Desireable. dfegad

I'm going to Split the Signal of the DI and was thinking of using another mic, like a AKG C 519 M/C 519 ML or Shure 98S, as i can clip these on to the Bell of the Instrument??? Since he moves all over!

Oh and I have 16 Channels in total to do all this. After i count the Room Mic's??

Love to hear what you have to say!

Thanks for your input. Cheers Wannabe.

[Jim vanBergen]

In a rock band? Damn. Or is this something else?

To answer your question, I've recorded these many times. I prefer a condenser mic a couple of feet from the bell, I've used Neumann U89, U47feti, U87, TLM170, TLM193, KM184, and Shure SM81s on Sousaphone with good results.

How does the instrument fit in the mix? What do you envision its place in the final balance, and what is the lead instrument in the group?

Is he hardwired to the bass amp? If so, you could use any of a dozen clip mics from SM98 on down. I'd look at the Sennheisser 604/904/504 clip-on dynamic that uses the basic 421 capsule personally, but just about any clip-on mic would serve well. The instrument is BIG...with blatty attack, which is why I think the dynamic would sit a little better than the condenser unless you feel the blatty attack is necessary to cut thru the mix.

I hope these thoughts help!

JvB

[rubycakes]

Um, it's Sousaphone after John Philip Sousa.

[WannaBStudioNut]

Originally Posted by Jim vanBergen

In a rock band? Damn. Or is this something else?

To answer your question, I've recorded these many times. I prefer a condenser mic a couple of feet from the bell, I've used Neumann U89, U47feti, U87, TLM170, TLM193, KM184, and Shure SM81s on Sousaphone with good results.

How does the instrument fit in the mix? What do you envision its place in the final balance, and what is the lead instrument in the group?

Is he hardwired to the bass amp? If so, you could use any of a dozen clip mics from SM98 on down. I'd look at the Sennheisser 604/904/504 clip-on dynamic that uses the basic 421 capsule personally, but just about any clip-on mic would serve well. The instrument is BIG...with blatty attack, which is why I think the dynamic would sit a little better than the condenser unless you feel the blatty attack is necessary to cut thru the mix.

I hope these thoughts help!

JvB

Hi Jim. Thanks so much for taking the time to help me out. I think this band is going to be a welcome challange. I'm looking forward to it!

And yes it's a Rock Band.......

The Sousaphone is replacing the Bass Player for the last two sets, and is Hardwired (thankfully, as this guy does some moving around the Stage!!) Direct to the Bass Amp. Then it's DI out to FOH. The Electric Guitar and rest of the Horn Section are the lead Instruments. Pretty cool concept!

I think your idea about the Senn 604's may be the best way of going.

I was also thinking Splitting the Bass DI, or maybe even mic the Bass Cab too i think?? As the 57 he has in the throat of the Sousaphone kinda achieves the "Blatty" sound.

Thanks again for your knowledge and time. I appreciate it.

Cheers Wannabe.

[WannaBStudioNut]

Originally Posted by rubycakes

Um, it's Sousaphone after John Philip Sousa.

Thanks mate, as you can tell i dont know much about them. I'm doing my Homework though!

Sousaphone Sousaphone Sousaphone Sousaphone Sousaphone Sousaphone Sousaphone Sousaphone Sousaphone Sousaphone Sousaphone Sousaphone

Thought if i spell it out a few times i'll get it right. Sorry all!!

[Jim vanBergen]

If you have the additional tracks, it's never a bad idea to have options by recording DI, mic, cab, etc. for mixing. Since the Sousaphone is replacing the bass in the mix, I'd also make sure for mixing you have a really flexible compressor for it (if you play w/ attack and ratio you might get rid of the 'blat' entirely) and great EQ to do some shaping, to try the instrument toned specifically. I'd listen to it with a 800Hz low pass first...pretend you're listening to it from 20 feet, then try and keep that tone in mind when you put it up in the mix, you know?

Hope the thoughts help, bro. Good luck!!!

[WannaBStudioNut]

Originally Posted by Jim vanBergen

If you have the additional tracks, it's never a bad idea to have options by recording DI, mic, cab, etc. for mixing. Since the Sousaphone is replacing the bass in the mix, I'd also make sure for mixing you have a really flexible compressor for it (if you play w/ attack and ratio you might get rid of the 'blat' entirely) and great EQ to do some shaping, to try the instrument toned specifically. I'd listen to it with a 800Hz low pass first...pretend you're listening to it from 20 feet, then try and keep that tone in mind when you put it up in the mix, you know?

Hope the thoughts help, bro. Good luck!!!

Hey Jim, Thanks again for your input!! I was thinking about Running it through a DBX 160X for compression. And a API 3124MB+ Mic Pre.

Also running another Mic in front of the Rig. Maybe my RE 20, SM52 or D112??? Through another API pre and no Compression.

The good thing is i get a pretty good soundcheck in. I can go till i get the best result. The Singer owns the bar..thumbsup

Once again, thanks for your input. Cant thank you enough!! If you ever get to OZ i'll get the beers!

[Kalara]

Sounds like fun. I've attatched a recording of a sausaphone I did last year. Really fun record all the way around. I went with a TLM127 about 3 feet in front. There are actually 2 tracks of sausaphone in the begining of the song. We were going for a kind of "elephant walk" vibe. The 604 sound like a good idea and I'm a huge fan of 3124's. Good luck!

[rubycakes]

Check out the Youngblood Brass Band, they use a Sousaphone. They're a funk/hip-hop band. I'd be interested to find out how they mic they're Sousaphone. The must run it through something because at times it almost doesn't sound like a Sousaphone or it sounds like a Sousaphone plus some additional electric instrument.

[If you find the track 'Brooklyn' listen to the end of the song (last 2 minutes or so) the Sousaphone player is doing some crazy stuff--multiphonics, etc.]

[jenkel16]

The Dirty Dozen Brass Band does something similar and they wrap a cable around a narrow part and drop a 58 down the bell. not pretty by any means, not bad sounding though.

[trumpetadam]

My band's played a few times with the Young Blood Brass Band and engineers usually tape a 57 or a 58 down the bell but I really don't like the sound. Far too much 'blat' and not enough bass or warmth. I've never heard an engineer do the whole bands sound justice. It's a shame. They are great.

[The Listener]

Nice ideas of splitting the DI, micing the cabinet + some more high endish signal - maybe try this portable solution: SD SYSTEMS INSTRUMENT MICROPHONES

I would record all three sources - maybe THE sound comes from that bass rig...

For studio high quality recordings I would also try some good LDC from some distance + something like RE-20 or MD441 close, but if the guy moves around...

[pan]

Originally Posted by rubycakes

Check out the Youngblood Brass Band, they use a Sousaphone. They're a funk/hip-hop band. I'd be interested to find out how they mic they're Sousaphone. The must run it through something because at times it almost doesn't sound like a Sousaphone or it sounds like a Sousaphone plus some additional electric instrument.

They are SICK!!!

The Sousaphone player sounds like a P-Bassist on steroids... it's in his lips and lungs, I suppose. I saw them live in Switzerland two years ago and it was a jaw-dropping experience...IIRC, it was a sm57 mounted to the bell...

They have one guy working the bassdrum, another one doing snarework and a third for Hi-Hats - but they sound like one drummer with 6 extremities and a pristine groove.

Unfortunately, the CDs I got don'T reproduce what I heard on stage...pure power!

[WannaBStudioNut]

Wow i cant thank you guys enough for all your input. It totally blows me away.

I appoligise for not replying earlier, but i have been knocked out with the Flu for the past few days. It sucks! Especially when my new Gear (including my API 3124+) arrived, and still in boxes, as dont have the energy to open them.


Once again, Thanks so much for you effort.

Cheers WanaBe.

[WannaBStudioNut]

Originally Posted by Kalara

Sounds like fun. I've attatched a recording of a sausaphone I did last year. Really fun record all the way around. I went with a TLM127 about 3 feet in front. There are actually 2 tracks of sausaphone in the begining of the song. We were going for a kind of "elephant walk" vibe. The 604 sound like a good idea and I'm a huge fan of 3124's. Good luck!

Hey Mark, Thanks so much for the Attached song. Very cool, very cool indeed!!!!


The Sousaphone sounds great as does the rest of the Mix. Great Song! You captured a great performance here.

I'm lookin foward to recording this band, i'll post some tracks of it when i get it all mixed and finished.

Thanks again. Cheers Wannabe.

[WannaBStudioNut]

Originally Posted by pan

They are SICK!!!

The Sousaphone player sounds like a P-Bassist on steroids... it's in his lips and lungs, I suppose. I saw them live in Switzerland two years ago and it was a jaw-dropping experience...IIRC, it was a sm57 mounted to the bell...

They have one guy working the bassdrum, another one doing snarework and a third for Hi-Hats - but they sound like one drummer with 6 extremities and a pristine groove.

Unfortunately, the CDs I got don'T reproduce what I heard on stage...pure power!

I just seen some snippets of Youngblood Brass Band on Youtube. These guys are awesome.

The sousaphone player just oozes soul. Wow.... I actually thought it was one drummer playing, until it panned around and showed three guys rockin out!!!

Thanks for the heads up on the SM57. Hope these guys get to Australia. I'd love to see them live.

Thanks again. Cheers WannaBe.