Dual High-End Mic/Line pre with ADC for acoustic instruments

[mosrite]

Okay my options are as follows:

Buy a Lavry Blue and add a pre like the GML or Cranesong as a new high quality front end.

I then thought that perhaps there is a quality pre/ADC combo that I am not aware of (and that might save me a bit of cash).

I loved the Neve 1073DPD when I tracked with it a few years ago but that was not Classical and wonder if it's going to be a bit 'thick' on the midrange in combination with the Schoeps in those rich sounding acoustics?

So, is there a unit that I speak of that anyone can recommend?

[krs]

Check out

Apogee Trak2
API A2D

[Plush]

You have several good options here. I do use the DPD mic pres and I also use its converters separately. For straight ahead classical projects, the 1073 mic amps are adding just a SLIGHT thickness without asserting their personality in a negative way.
The converters on the Neve are really really good with the benefit that they do all speeds and flavors.

Option 2--Maybe get a BG1 and the Neve 1073 DPD. There you will have a neutral mic amp and top range converter with the added benefit of two additional wonderful 1073's.

Option 3--Different approach---BG 1 and the Benchmark or Lavry converter---top sound all around.

Option 4--MAJOR SOUND HERE--Presonus ADL 600 mudderduggin' good sound with Neve 1073DPD--2 channels tube, 2 channels Neve.

No all in one units approach the quality of anything listed above. Saving cash and top top sound are incompatible by the way.

Mindblowed!

[mosrite]

Thanks for the suggestion. The API A2d looks promising but I am not familiar with the sound. Someone suggested that it was that 'LA sound from the 70's, 80's.' Don't wanna sound like a snob but I wonder if that would suit acoustic music. Then again a good pre is a good pre right?

Also, being more rock orientated I presume, would the API unit be a rotary as opposed to a stepped gain system?

[mosrite]

Hey Plush,

thanks for your suggestions.

So do you use the 1073DPD a lot on your classical projects? I loved that unit when I tracked with it. Build, character etc. Does it really not impose itself that much with the more naturalistic material?

At present I am using the modern Neve (Amek) pres. They are great and very clean but I am really looking for a convertor upgrade and the Amek unit I have includes many features that I have no use for (e.g. compressor, filters).

[mosrite]

...Also, does using the lineins on the DPD basically equate to a seperate ADC? Does it remain neutral? I'm thinking analogue transfers and the addition of other pres (like your DAV suggestion)

[Plush]

Hello Esteemed Mosrite,

The Neve 1073 DPD converters are useable in a variety of ways. The designers of the unit thought ahead.

The converter itself is acessesd via 1/4" line inputs on TRS. These can also be used by plugging the line output of the 1073 into the converters.

The default for the mic amp portion is direct into the converters. So, you can use the converters alone and separately from the mic amps or together with the mic amps. You can also use the DPD as a transformer sound treatment device by running line in to the units and line out to an analog device or into the converters.

The DSD converter is superb and can be used with the Tascam 1000 box should the need arise. Conversion compares well to other top units. How do I know? Because we have those units here too.

It sounds more confusing than it actually is when you are looking at the rear of the unit and then you can see/imagine the possibilities.

I don't find the 1073 mic amps to be overly thick or too midrangy for classical work. Purists might be horrified. After all is said and done, the resulting sound places very high on the pleasant listening scale.

[mosrite]

Thanks again Plush, I am keenly interested in re-visiting this 1073!

One more question that I cannot seem to confirm: Does it have 2 simultaneous digital outputs? i.e. could I send to my DAW and an outboard recorder at the same time?

[Recording David]

This thread has renewed my interest in the ADL 600. Mmm.... must have.

[jslevin]

If you'd consider the 1073 or A2D, you should also consider a Neve Portico to pair with your Lavrys. The "clean" mode is very compelling, and everyone loves "silk" mode.

Grace Lunatec V3 has some very nice features.

Millennia HV-3C with digital option would also be ideal.

JSL

[Plush]

Originally Posted by mosrite

Thanks again Plush, I am keenly interested in re-visiting this 1073!

One more question that I cannot seem to confirm: Does it have 2 simultaneous digital outputs? i.e. could I send to my DAW and an outboard recorder at the same time?

Yes it does have two AES outs. These function as two outs up to 96K because the unit
runs the output as a high speed single AES. The two AES outs would be used for 192K.
There is also an input to clock the 1073 DPD to external clock.

DSD output is properly on the three bnc connector Sony SDIF-2 format.

One could convert one of the AES outs to IEC 958 (SPDIF) with a transformer/format converter.

[Jim vanBergen]

Originally Posted by jslevin

If you'd consider the 1073 or A2D, you should also consider a Neve Portico to pair with your Lavrys. The "clean" mode is very compelling, and everyone loves "silk" mode.

Grace Lunatec V3 has some very nice features.

Millennia HV-3C with digital option would also be ideal.

JSL

I wish more manufacturers would pair their analog preamps with a pristine A/D. When I first read this thread, I too, thought "Portico into HEDD". While not as pristine as Millenia or Earthworks, the I think the Neve Portico preamps sound really nice for 2-mix recordings as well as for stereo piano, drum OH, and audience mics. The flexibility of both units makes for a lot of power for classical, jazz, rock, & metal.

While I have not used the Neve DPD or the API converters, I think the Cransong Spider is great (but pricey) and the HEDD192 one of the best A/Ds I have found that features a flexibility you can't get anywhere else. I bought the UA2192 based on its sonic accuracy and was upset when I found I liked the HEDD 192 better. I've stayed with the UA192 'casue I still love it, but I intend to get a HEDD at some point, I just can't justify the $$ now. But I DO wish that the manufacturers who really care about good sonics would take the extra step to include AD and AES outputs. Wouldn't that be nice? Or am I off the deep end off this one?

(Mosrite, Sorry for the hijack!!!)

[mosrite]

(Mosrite, Sorry for the hijack!!!)

Hijack away friend, it's all good

One could convert one of the AES outs to IEC 958 (SPDIF) with a transformer/format converter.

So let me get this straight: I could use one as a standard AES output and AT THE SAME TIME convert the other AES output to SPDIF giving me 2 renditions of the same digital signal??? Plush tell me it's so!! If so, that would indeed solve all my problems, tick all my boxes and float all my boats (simultaneously)

I tried to find this out (even downloading the manual) and couldn't get an answer to this question. Maybe it's just me...

[Audio Addict]

Hello,

I would suggest :
- Little Labs LMNOPre (w/ a different mic input transformer, if you need) + Lavry
- a full Lavry solution : Blue Mic Pre + Blue converters

[SoundWeavers]

Mosrite,

Are you set on having both the pre and ADC in one box?

How about getting a dedicated AD/DA such as the Rosetta 800 or Lynx Aurora 8. This way you can have a selection of preamps (as you get more preamps in the future). For me, this setup is more open, portable and expandable.

Both the Rosetta and Aurora have Firewire cards for direct connection to your host.


good luck.

[hughesmr]

Originally Posted by Recording David

This thread has renewed my interest in the ADL 600. Mmm.... must have.

You should ask Mark ["mrsteaks"] here about the ADL 600 as he has one and does a lot of acoustic recording with it.

[mrsteaks]

Originally Posted by hughesmr

You should ask Mark ["mrsteaks"] here about the ADL 600 as he has one and does a lot of acoustic recording with it.

Ask away! I don't want to hijack Mosrite's thread, though. Feel free to PM me.

[Plush]

Originally Posted by mosrite

Hijack away friend, it's all good


So let me get this straight: I could use one as a standard AES output and AT THE SAME TIME convert the other AES output to SPDIF giving me 2 renditions of the same digital signal??? Plush tell me it's so!! If so, that would indeed solve all my problems, tick all my boxes and float all my boats (simultaneously)

I tried to find this out (even downloading the manual) and couldn't get an answer to this question. Maybe it's just me...

Yes , two AES out simultaneously. Convert one to SPDIF with a Neutrik transformer and
le voila.

[Confusionator]

No love for Aphex 1100 MkII?

[willi1203]

Crookwood Paintpot. 2 channnels of amazing accurate sound for acoustic music. Analog & Digital output.

Crookwood Products: Paintpot

[mosrite]

Crookwood Paintpot. 2 channnels of amazing accurate sound for acoustic music. Analog & Digital output.

Crookwood Products: Paintpot

That is the weirdist looking thing. Does it sound any good?

[bluegrasser]

Originally Posted by Plush

You have several good options here. I do use the DPD mic pres and I also use its converters separately. For straight ahead classical projects, the 1073 mic amps are adding just a SLIGHT thickness without asserting their personality in a negative way.
The converters on the Neve are really really good with the benefit that they do all speeds and flavors.

Option 2--Maybe get a BG1 and the Neve 1073 DPD. There you will have a neutral mic amp and top range converter with the added benefit of two additional wonderful 1073's.

Option 3--Different approach---BG 1 and the Benchmark or Lavry converter---top sound all around.

Option 4--MAJOR SOUND HERE--Presonus ADL 600 mudderduggin' good sound with Neve 1073DPD--2 channels tube, 2 channels Neve.

No all in one units approach the quality of anything listed above. Saving cash and top top sound are incompatible by the way.

Mindblowed!

I gotta say Plush, I have to disagree with your assessment of the ADL 600. I own it and like it a great deal for some things. But I think it would be too aggressive/thick sounding for classical music. To my ear, a dream application for the ADL would be R&B, but what do I know......

[Plush]

I have found the ADL 600 to be my friend in big league orchestra recording. I do admit that I am a tube mic amp fan. I am NOT an endorser of laboratory clean mic amps in classical recording. That may be just my own bias, but I have had great success with my methods.

Mix stage= Digital multi-track===>Analog console==>analog EQ if needed===>1 or 2 tube stages===>super high end a/d===>convolution reverb===>SADiE---->cd output.

The #600 is fairly neutral and I do like the sparkle it imparts to the treble spectrum.
In no way is it a heavy tube sound! I have not found it to be overly thick sounding and any grease that it does apply is welcome in taming a vln section that is anything less than a Vienna Phil. string sound.

In fact, I feel that the #600 helps an orchestra obtain that desired silky string sound.

So, we are approaching things differently with perhaps different results.

What I want is as many tubes and as many transformers in the signal path as possible.
Only in this way may I endorse modern digital sound.

[Remoteness]

Plushy,

I like your mindset about this topic.

Right on!

[Plush]

Thank you, Steve!

Right On!
Power to the People!
Up the Man!
Down with Chinese Junque!

[Roland]

Originally Posted by mosrite

That is the weirdist looking thing. Does it sound any good?

ISedlacek tried it and put up some samples that many people thought were favourable, anyhting Crispin (owner of Crookwood) designs is extremely well engineered and subjectively sounds good. Weird looking, but again quite a pratical design if you wish to put a mic amp close to the microphone. I have myself ordered 24 of his I-pre (same internal design as the paintpot) for location work, they certainly have their fans, 0VU is another user who loves them, even Plush who loves his valve and BG stuff uses them.

Regards



Roland

[bluegrasser]

Originally Posted by Plush

What I want is as many tubes and as many transformers in the signal path as possible.
Only in this way may I endorse modern digital sound.

Sounds like a good philosophy. Your fetish for the DAV preamp, excepted. Two questions about the ADL: (1) Do you think it needs a fair amount of warming up before tracking and (2) do you have a preferred setting on the trim pot (i.e. not the gain pot)? Thanks.

[Plush]

Hello Bluegrasser,

That #600 pre-amp does need warming up like all tube boxes. However, for me, it is the design as a whole which imparts the "special-ness." So, with that view, it is pretty much ready to go after 15 minutes.

The trim control for recording can be anywhere from unity at 12 noon to jacked all the way up. For line in purposes which is the way I am using it this summer in a mix chain, the unit is set for line in with the gain all the way down. The trim gets turned down all the way too for an audition of the program material.

Then, when it comes time to judiciously dial in the tube effect, the trim is operated mostly in the range of 12 noon to the 3 o'clock position.

For recording with some M50's, the mic amp is operated at higher gain with the trim all the way up to impart thickness and to enhance the package.

[fifthcircle]

Hey Plush-

I've seen you raving about the ADL for quite some time and because of that, I've had interest. How would you describe the sound? I am intimately familliar with Vac Rac (which I know you used to own), tubetech, and A-Designs in the tube world.

How would you compare? I too like big sounds- I own a Grace 801, but I also use/own Boulder, DAV, A-Designs, and other pres... I use tubes, ribbons, etc... because the super clean sound can get boring IMO.

--Ben

[Plush]

I actually find it difficult to describe the sound of the ADL600.

What drew me to it were good reports from those who used it both as a mic amp and as a line stage "enhancer" during mixing. I also like designs by Demaria who has been around the block and is a good designer.

The fact that it is made in America is also a deciding factor. I am down on Euro gear now because the low dollar means that we are throwing 40% of our money away in an exchange rate fiasco.

When I demoed the unit, I was impressed by its high headroom design, the ability to operate it as a clean tube amp or to thicken up the sound by driving the second gain stage hard. Like the Vac Rac the Power supply is waaay overspec'ed to inspire confidence.

Unit will faithfully capture and deliver massive bass and has a refined treble that I feel is its real strong point.

The ADL 600 is a fully professional tube mic amp that can go from clean sound to a more thick but never wooly tube sound.

Not a fully satisfactory answer for Fifth, but my days of reading "The Absolute Sound" and describing reproduced sound in words have been left behind. Apologies to HP and his lunatic delusional audiophile cadre.

Did gtr centr get rid of their return policy where guys could buy $40,000 of equipment on an Amex card, make the record within 30 days and then return all the gear for full credit? I bought mine from a guy who did that. I thought it was pretty funny.