Live sound mics for Jazz saxophones

pieter · 9th August 2007

Guys,

I recently recording a quite amazing saxophone quartet, consiting of the creme of the Belgian Jazz cats. They were complaining that when they play live they are usually miced up with SM58s and the like. What would be a reasonable advise for them to put on their technical rider (the usual PA company doesn't cary U67 or whatever)?

MIKEHARRIS · 9th August 2007

Either Sennheiser MD421's or Royer R122's

springer · 9th August 2007

Depending on the crowd noise level and safety (spilling beers and such) I would suggest Senn. MD441 or MD421 or RE20. For a quiet sedate crowd, Royer or one of the higher end LDC or SDC like TLM193, 4011's, Schoeps MK21 (wide card for lots of movement), etc...

Most of the time people are not willing to use anything except 57's and 58's because of likely damage and such. 421 and 441 are a good sounding hammer, 57's and 58's are just hammers IMO.
Good luck.

borjam · 9th August 2007

My favourite is the MD-441. Amazing with sax and trumpet.

warhead · 9th August 2007

Live?

Beyer M160.

Done.

War

GearHunter · 9th August 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by warhead

Live?

Beyer M160.

Done.

War

Damn you War! You beat me to it!

Beyer M160, M500 (if you can find one) or even M88.

Bubbagump · 9th August 2007

MD421 or the Beyer M160 would be my call. Maybe even an SM7.

allcentury · 12th October 2007

awesome, thanks guys, have a buddy coming over next week to do some sax over my music. should be great

Trp · 13th October 2007

Neumann TLM 170 works very well live. U67s would be overkill in that application.

The Listener · 13th October 2007

EV RE20 is just classic... I own two MD441 though

... and no EV... but I receive a lot of live saxes recorded with one RE20 and it sounds great... I would put THAT on the rider - but MD441 are just as fine - maybe more for the clarinet or soprano - alt/tenor/baritone sax growl seems even more pronounced with RE20... On larger stages some LDC Audio-technica also works great - actually I had to mix one live recording done with that mic (don't know exactly which number - just it was LDC Audio-technica) and it was sweet - I wouldn't complain if I saw one on stage...

Jim vanBergen · 15th October 2007

Top choice: beyer M160
Second choice: Beyer M69 (my secret weapon on live sax!) or M88
Next choice: RE-20 or Senn 441

What do all these mics have in common?

Good pattern control and reduced proximity effect, so tone does not change dramatically as the sax bell moves. This is a primary concern with SM58/57 IMO.

stirinthesauce · 15th October 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim vanBergen

Top choice: beyer M160
Second choice: Beyer M69 (my secret weapon on live sax!) or M88
Next choice: RE-20 or Senn 441

What do all these mics have in common?

Good pattern control and reduced proximity effect, so tone does not change dramatically as the sax bell moves. This is a primary concern with SM58/57 IMO.

...that's all I use now is the m69 on sax. Very smooth. I've run through the locker with sd condensors, ld condensors, in all differing patterns, lots of different dynamics including the md421 and the m88, but the m69 has by and far been my favorite.

Pohaku · 16th October 2007

An M-69? Really? I'd never thought to use one of those on sax. My thoughts generally run to an RE-20 for live and an AEA R-84 in the studio. And I have at least three M-69s lying around here somewhere as spare live mics.

**Remoteness** · 16th October 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pohaku

An M-69? Really? I'd never thought to use one of those on sax. My thoughts generally run to an RE-20 for live and an AEA R-84 in the studio. And I have at least three M-69s lying around here somewhere as spare live mics.

Now, you a few to try on a section.

andychamp · 31st October 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim vanBergen

(...)M88(...) reduced proximity effect

I found the M88 to have one of the strongest proximity effects this side of ribbons.
Quite the opposite of a RE-series EV, really.

Jim vanBergen · 31st October 2007

I wonder why we have such different responses, and love that we have such a variance of opinions on the tools. What works for you, works. Cool!

Wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that three of my 88s are around 20 years old?

Berolzheimer · 1st November 2007

I'd think the Royers or AEA's would be a problem live as they're fig8 mics. Talk about asking for feedback! The m160's would probably be a great choice though.

Ken K · 1st November 2007

I recorded a live gig and used an AT 4047 on alto Sax and bass trumpet and it sounded great. I think that mic is a real sleeper.

bruno2000 · 2nd November 2007

Schoeps, the best sax mic you ever heard!!!!

Roland · 2nd November 2007

Obviously a lot depends on your budget, (the Schoeps above is great but not usual PA money), recently I used a Sennheiser 865e with a well known free jazz saxophonist. I was pleasantly suprised, they also would be within most reasonable budgets, being a condensor really benefits, oten I find dynamics a bit "blunt" for subtle or jazz playing, of course YMMV.

Regards

Roland

9th August 2007	#1
pieter Gear maniac Joined: Oct 2003 Location: Belgium Posts: 281 Thread Starter	Live sound mics for Jazz saxophones Guys, I recently recording a quite amazing saxophone quartet, consiting of the creme of the Belgian Jazz cats. They were complaining that when they play live they are usually miced up with SM58s and the like. What would be a reasonable advise for them to put on their technical rider (the usual PA company doesn't cary U67 or whatever)? __________________ Pieter La Buanderie www.labuanderie.be

13th October 2007	#10
The Listener Lives for gear Joined: Oct 2006 Location: Europe Posts: 1,540 1 Review written	EV RE20 is just classic... I own two MD441 though ... and no EV... but I receive a lot of live saxes recorded with one RE20 and it sounds great... I would put THAT on the rider - but MD441 are just as fine - maybe more for the clarinet or soprano - alt/tenor/baritone sax growl seems even more pronounced with RE20... On larger stages some LDC Audio-technica also works great - actually I had to mix one live recording done with that mic (don't know exactly which number - just it was LDC Audio-technica) and it was sweet - I wouldn't complain if I saw one on stage... __________________ "The first question I ask myself when something doesn't seem to be beautiful is why do I think it's not beautiful. And very shortly you discover that there is no reason." John Cage

15th October 2007	#11
Jim vanBergen Lives for gear Joined: Apr 2005 Location: New York Friggin' City Posts: 2,562	My $0.02 Top choice: beyer M160 Second choice: Beyer M69 (my secret weapon on live sax!) or M88 Next choice: RE-20 or Senn 441 What do all these mics have in common? Good pattern control and reduced proximity effect, so tone does not change dramatically as the sax bell moves. This is a primary concern with SM58/57 IMO.

16th October 2007	#13
Pohaku Lives for gear Joined: Apr 2003 Location: Twin Cities Posts: 1,036	An M-69? Really? I'd never thought to use one of those on sax. My thoughts generally run to an RE-20 for live and an AEA R-84 in the studio. And I have at least three M-69s lying around here somewhere as spare live mics. __________________ Yeah I'm an attorney, but everyone needs a day job.

1st November 2007	#17
Berolzheimer Lives for gear Joined: Dec 2002 Location: El Lay Posts: 2,209	I'd think the Royers or AEA's would be a problem live as they're fig8 mics. Talk about asking for feedback! The m160's would probably be a great choice though. __________________ Purveyor of fine sounds since 1961. My very incomplete IMDB list: My very incomplete IMDB list I'm all ears.

9th August 2007	#2
MIKEHARRIS Lives for gear Joined: Jul 2002 Location: MIAMI FLA Posts: 1,685	Either Sennheiser MD421's or Royer R122's

9th August 2007	#3
springer Gear maniac Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 293	Depending on the crowd noise level and safety (spilling beers and such) I would suggest Senn. MD441 or MD421 or RE20. For a quiet sedate crowd, Royer or one of the higher end LDC or SDC like TLM193, 4011's, Schoeps MK21 (wide card for lots of movement), etc... Most of the time people are not willing to use anything except 57's and 58's because of likely damage and such. 421 and 441 are a good sounding hammer, 57's and 58's are just hammers IMO. Good luck.

9th August 2007	#4
borjam Gear nut Joined: Aug 2006 Location: Bilbao (Spain) Posts: 131	My favourite is the MD-441. Amazing with sax and trumpet.

9th August 2007	#5
warhead Jai guru deva om Joined: Feb 2003 Location: South Carolina Posts: 12,258	Live? Beyer M160. Done. War

9th August 2007	#7
Bubbagump Gear addict Joined: Mar 2007 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 445	MD421 or the Beyer M160 would be my call. Maybe even an SM7.

12th October 2007	#8
allcentury Gear maniac Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 198	awesome, thanks guys, have a buddy coming over next week to do some sax over my music. should be great

13th October 2007	#9
Trp Gear addict Joined: Jun 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 315	Neumann TLM 170 works very well live. U67s would be overkill in that application.

31st October 2007	#16
Jim vanBergen Lives for gear Joined: Apr 2005 Location: New York Friggin' City Posts: 2,562	I wonder why we have such different responses, and love that we have such a variance of opinions on the tools. What works for you, works. Cool! Wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that three of my 88s are around 20 years old?

1st November 2007	#18
Ken K Gear nut Joined: Jan 2007 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 101	I recorded a live gig and used an AT 4047 on alto Sax and bass trumpet and it sounded great. I think that mic is a real sleeper.

2nd November 2007	#19
bruno2000 Gear interested Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 11	Schoeps, the best sax mic you ever heard!!!!

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2nd November 2007	#20
Roland Lives for gear Joined: Oct 2002 Location: St Leonards on Sea, England Posts: 2,133 2 Reviews written	Obviously a lot depends on your budget, (the Schoeps above is great but not usual PA money), recently I used a Sennheiser 865e with a well known free jazz saxophonist. I was pleasantly suprised, they also would be within most reasonable budgets, being a condensor really benefits, oten I find dynamics a bit "blunt" for subtle or jazz playing, of course YMMV. Regards Roland