mic positioning for trumpet

[pianoman]

Hi...

I'm doing some Klezmer-style music recording and will be recording trumpet for the first time. I wonder what's the conventional wisdom, if any, on mic positioning? My mic choices are AKG-C414B (2) or Royer SF-1 (2, which can be done in Blumlein to make a virtual SF-12). Thanks for any advice.

[fifthcircle]

Use a single SF-1 a foot and a half or two feet out from the bell, perhaps slightly off axis. Done. Should get a great sounding trumpet track with that. If you have a nice warm pre to put it through, even better (ie API, Pacifica, Neve, etc...).

I'd stay away from the blumlein pickup- if the player moves at all, your image will get rather funky. The music will definitely benefit from the trumpet staying in one place in the image. Also, my feelings about the 414 is that on a brass instrument, it will just get too edgy sounding. Brass and ribbons were meant for each other.

--Ben

[Jim vanBergen]

Ben's response is excellent. Whatever you do, DON'T close-mic the bell. It's not a natural sound, and although it's OK for a rock horns sound when dropped low in the mix, it's not going to work for Klezmer IMO.

Personally, I'm ok with the 414 if you back up more from the source, which might provide a smoother tone but will have much more bleed and other possible issues. I much prefer ribbons like the R84 or large diaphragm dynamics, which will have a much smoother response at this distance.

Hope this helps!

[bove]

Originally Posted by fifthcircle

perhaps slightly off axis.

Slightly of axis is a good suggestion... it varies by musician, but there is often some less appealing high frequency "air" noise noticeable when you're looking right down the bell of a brass instrument. Move just a few inches off center and you can avoid your mic picking those noises and should get a richer, clearer sound.

[Ronnie Dixon]

I would only record the trumpet off axis.

The sound of the breath against the brass bell gives an extremely harsh overtone to the sawtooth like shape of the trumpet sound.

I have never had any success with recording trumpet on the axis because of this.

[MeSoHornplayer]

Agreed. Off axis, about 18 inches away, and a ribbon mic if you have one.

[soundbarnfool]

i used a 77DX about 6 or 7 feet away and it sounded GREAT!

[pianoman]

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll definitely try the SF-1 first. First session is actually tomorrow. Two possible definitions of "off-axis":
1. Have the mic facing the trumpet, but a few inches away from the direction the trumpet is playing
2. Have the trumpet playing towards the mic, but angling the mic somewhat away from the trumpet
Do most of you mean "1"?

[fifthcircle]

You are going to find that the trumpet is a very directional instrument. If you start by placing the mic facing the bell straight on then move it 20-30 degrees off axis, you'll get a great sound. That off axis can be a few inches to the left or right, up or down (depends on what the player feels comfortable with). You'll still have the mic facing the bell, but you aren't "looking" at it from straight on.

--Ben

[springer]

Depending on how well the player takes direction... you could place a second "dummy" mic or popscreen lightly to the righ/left of the "real" mic for them to aim at. Just for frame of reference...

Along this line.. how many have used the venerable R122 for trumpet live with good results? Hope this is not considered a hi-jack...

[ajfarber]

Originally Posted by fifthcircle

Use a single SF-1 a foot and a half or two feet out from the bell, perhaps slightly off axis. Done.
--Ben

Check and double-check!

Any good ribbon will do. I like the Royer SF-1 and 121 for trumpet.

I've had good luck with RCA 44 or 77, AEA r84 and Coles 4038.

Good luck!

[Adebar]

Of course it always depends on the player, the instrument and the style of music. But in general i like to record trumpet with U89, which is one of the darker sounding Neumanns.

[pianoman]

Thanks, all, for the helpful suggestions. Best was to use the SF-1 roughly 2 feet from the bell, off axis, aimed at the bell, using a pop filter for the trumpet player to aim at eyeballing 20 degrees or so off axis. Great result. I used the AKG414 at the same time -- no comparison, mediocre at best.

[Jim vanBergen]

I love this place. No arguing, just an open discussion that solves problems.
12 posts later, and your very first response from Ben (5th Circle) was spot on what the doctor asked for.

LONG LIVE GEARSLUTZ!