What's the deal with shotgun mics?

[BlueRadio]

I know that it sounds like the beginning of a Jerry Seinfeld joke...


I'm about to get into capturing sound 'on set.'

I know nothing about shotgun mics. What are some proper techniques? Basics? I can't very well just throw up a km184, correct? Polar pattern differences?

Help me explore this wonderful new world

[dr.sound]

Blue,
If you are going to be a production Mixer you should go here:
Discussions - rec.arts.movies.production.sound | Google Groups

That's RAMPS.

Recording Arts Movies Production Sound


That is where some very fine production sound Mixers hang out. Read up, ask questions and learn BEFORE you go out and record on the set!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Have fun,

[philper]

Originally Posted by BlueRadio

I know that it sounds like the beginning of a Jerry Seinfeld joke...


I'm about to get into capturing sound 'on set.'

I know nothing about shotgun mics. What are some proper techniques? Basics? I can't very well just throw up a km184, correct? Polar pattern differences?

Help me explore this wonderful new world

You can certainly put up a KM184--they are not tremendously common for dialog, but can work well when you can be in close and you need to cover a fast moving scene w/ actors moving around. Slightly more reach can be had with a hypercardioid like a Schoeps MK41, yet more with a KMR82 or a Sanken CS3 etc. In general it is a good idea to use less directional mics indoors, when possible, due to how they handle reflections from walls and floors.

Philip Perkins CAS

[BlueRadio]

Thanks for the advice...just a little unfamiliar with that forum.

I basically want to know a few things...

1. What kind of mic pres do you use on the set? Will API 312s work?

2. Do you record in mono or stereo? I'm sure it depends...

3. Do you generally record onto a laptop? I've got a really nice macbook with Cubase 4. Will this work?

4. Are shotgun mics just point and shoot like cardioid condensors? Something more to it?

[BlueRadio]

Originally Posted by philper

You can certainly put up a KM184--they are not tremendously common for dialog, but can work well when you can be in close and you need to cover a fast moving scene w/ actors moving around. Slightly more reach can be had with a hypercardioid like a Schoeps MK41, yet more with a KMR82 or a Sanken CS3 etc. In general it is a good idea to use less directional mics indoors, when possible, due to how they handle reflections from walls and floors.

Philip Perkins CAS

Phil- Do you mean more directional mics? Also, please see questions below. Thanks for your input

[dr.sound]

Originally Posted by BlueRadio

Thanks for the advice...just a little unfamiliar with that forum.

I basically want to know a few things...

1. What kind of mic pres do you use on the set? Will API 312s work?

2. Do you record in mono or stereo? I'm sure it depends...

3. Do you generally record onto a laptop? I've got a really nice macbook with Cubase 4. Will this work?

4. Are shotgun mics just point and shoot like cardioid condensors? Something more to it?

dr.sound replies:
That is a Forum of Production Mixers who other than Philip here can answer your questions IF YOU ASK THEM!
Ask them, then let us all know what you find.You need feedback from as many people as you can get. By the way, Philiper post there too.

[philper]

Originally Posted by BlueRadio

Phil- Do you mean more directional mics? Also, please see questions below. Thanks for your input

No I mean less. You want to be in closer, and you have close walls and ceilings that are a major factor in the sound arriving @ the mic. In general a very directional mic will end up hearing some reflections as just as loud as the direct voice, so the sound is very colored. A boomy room is where a true condensor hypercard like a Schoeps really shines, due to its superior off-axis response (ie, just like its on-axis response, only lower level, as opposed to a very different response off axis). This all is why your first task on getting ready to record a scene is treating the room as best you can.

Re: mic pres: in the movies we generally don't play the music recording mic-pre game--we use what is in our mixers. Partially this is convenience, partially this is due to a need to have as clean and neutral and repeatable a sound as possible (ie NOT API or Neve), and lastly the fact that the room/environment and mic choice would usually overwhelm most subtle differences in pres that you might hear in a studio.

Philip Perkins CAS

[Stephen Muir]

Originally Posted by BlueRadio

1. What kind of mic pres do you use on the set? Will API 312s work?

That really depends on the type of mixing you're doing. Most of the location recording I do is of the "run and gun" type, as opposed to the "sit and mix" variety. For that reason, I generally stick with portable battery-operated ENG/EFP mixers which are designed for over-the-shoulder use, and avoid hauling around a rack of mic pre's. Here's a few models to look into: Shure FP-33, PSC Alphamix, Sound Devices 302, SD 442. They're all designed specifically for location dialogue recording, and combine a simplified setup with a number of features that are extremely useful for production sound (good limiters, headphone return, plenty of headphone monitoring options).

Originally Posted by BlueRadio

2. Do you record in mono or stereo? I'm sure it depends...

As a general rule, dialogue is recorded mono. If I'm only using a boom mic, I'll pan the channel to 9 o'clock so that incidental overloads are recorded nice and clean on the right channel. When I'm working with a boom and wireless, I'll pan the boom hard left and all the wireless mic's hard right. Two booms: boom 1 goes hard left and boom 2 goes hard right. Whatever configuration you use, be sure to keep detailed production sound notes so that the dialogue editors know what mic's you used, and how you organized your tracks.

There are exceptions to the "keep it mono" rule, though: when I'm recording lectures, sermons, or musical performances. In those cases, I'll set up a stereo pair to record crowd ambience and room accoustics, and mix in a dry feed from the PA system into the center of the image. If I can't tap into the PA, I'll usually try to close-mic the PA system with a dynamic mic (assuming I can't put a wireless on the lecturer).

Originally Posted by BlueRadio

3. Do you generally record onto a laptop? I've got a really nice macbook with Cubase 4. Will this work?

It'll probably work, but I personally don't trust laptops for location recording (too many things can go wrong, and they don't hold up well to the awful abuse location recording can subject them to). When I was starting out, the only options were portable DAT, or the venerable NAGRA open-reel recorders. While the Nagra 4.2 and IV-STC remain extraordinary recorders with exceptional preamps, the last few years have seen the introduction of a variety of great solid-state digital recorders. Here's a quick list off the top of my head: Sound Devices 702, SD 722, SD 722t, SD 744, Fostex FR-2, Fostex FR-2 LE, Marantz 670, Tascam HD-P2, Deva IV, Deva V, Fostex PD-6.

I have an FR-2, and I love that little thing. I popped in the optional timecode card, and it became even better. With a PSC M4 mkII mixer on the front-end, I can record double-system and single-system at the same time with 4 mic channels, all slung over my shoulder and running off a pair of NP-1 battery packs.

[philper]

Originally Posted by Stephen Muir

That really depends on the type of mixing you're doing. Most of the location recording I do is of the "run and gun" type, as opposed to the "sit and mix" variety. For that reason, I generally stick with portable battery-operated ENG/EFP mixers which are designed for over-the-shoulder use, and avoid hauling around a rack of mic pre's. Here's a few models to look into: Shure FP-33, PSC Alphamix, Sound Devices 302, SD 442. They're all designed specifically for location dialogue recording, and combine a simplified setup with a number of features that are extremely useful for production sound (good limiters, headphone return, plenty of headphone monitoring options).



As a general rule, dialogue is recorded mono. If I'm only using a boom mic, I'll pan the channel to 9 o'clock so that incidental overloads are recorded nice and clean on the right channel. When I'm working with a boom and wireless, I'll pan the boom hard left and all the wireless mic's hard right. Two booms: boom 1 goes hard left and boom 2 goes hard right. Whatever configuration you use, be sure to keep detailed production sound notes so that the dialogue editors know what mic's you used, and how you organized your tracks.

There are exceptions to the "keep it mono" rule, though: when I'm recording lectures, sermons, or musical performances. In those cases, I'll set up a stereo pair to record crowd ambience and room accoustics, and mix in a dry feed from the PA system into the center of the image. If I can't tap into the PA, I'll usually try to close-mic the PA system with a dynamic mic (assuming I can't put a wireless on the lecturer).



It'll probably work, but I personally don't trust laptops for location recording (too many things can go wrong, and they don't hold up well to the awful abuse location recording can subject them to). When I was starting out, the only options were portable DAT, or the venerable NAGRA open-reel recorders. While the Nagra 4.2 and IV-STC remain extraordinary recorders with exceptional preamps, the last few years have seen the introduction of a variety of great solid-state digital recorders. Here's a quick list off the top of my head: Sound Devices 702, SD 722, SD 722t, SD 744, Fostex FR-2, Fostex FR-2 LE, Marantz 670, Tascam HD-P2, Deva IV, Deva V, Fostex PD-6.

I have an FR-2, and I love that little thing. I popped in the optional timecode card, and it became even better. With a PSC M4 mkII mixer on the front-end, I can record double-system and single-system at the same time with 4 mic channels, all slung over my shoulder and running off a pair of NP-1 battery packs.

Your Cubase laptop rig will work fine in a limited sort of situation. We use laptops all the time on location for film/video audio nowadays, but they are generally running apps that are optimised for RECORDING only and have little screen overhead and no edit capabilities. (Metacorder, Boom Recorder). They work fine on a cart or tabletop, they don't work so well for one man band setups where you have to boom and mix at the same time. I had bad luck using mix/edit apps like Cubase for movie recording--they didn't turn out to be reliable enough for me: YMMV. Small dedicated recorders like Sound Devices, Tascam (HDP2) and Fostex FR2 (etc) are far simpler and easier to use, but you'll still need the laptop to burn a deliverable disc. You haven't brought up the subject of Timecode, necessary for virtually all film and video audio recording--that is a big subject in itself. At this point you might want to check in over @ RAMPS or JWsound.net where there is a larger pool of production sound people.

Philip Perkins CAS