Multipin connectors

[tnjazz]

Anyone here have a good source for multipin connectors?

We aren't renting this gear out or needing compatibility with outside systems at this time, and we are the only ones making the connections so I'm not terribly worried about the fragility of the connectors (we'll be careful!) so I'd consider ELCO, EDAC, any of that stuff.

No DB25 though.

Any help would be appreciated. Price is the main concern right now. We need to get a couple of snakes built and we need to do it as inexpensively as possible!

Thanks!
Dirk

[valleysound]

Search Ebay for Elco snakes. The Proco ones with Neutrik connectors are good as well as Mogami cables. You will probably have to build the panel ends yourself.

[tnjazz]

Thanks Paul! That's the direction I was headed.

Any thoughts on the ITT/Cannon DL connectors? I read that they're zero insertion force, which gives them an advantage (at least that's my perception) over ELCO/EDAC because there's no wear on the pins.

[valleysound]

Can't speak for the Cannon stuff, but I have a few 16 channel Elco snakes that I use for my inserts and effects in my PA rig and they have worked perfect for the past 4 years or so. I got a crimp tool really cheap from a supplier in New Hampshire. I think a good thing about the Elco stuff is that they are still in use and most are built to ADAT standards, at least the 16 channel stuff (known as 56 pin).

[Juan T.]

We have used EDAC/Elco connectors in situations where they will not get hard use and will not be mated and unmated on a regular basis. The applications have been wiring harnesses within racks or permanent installations that need to be unmated for service. They are reasonably priced and relatively easy to assemble and service. A good source is BTX Technologies. You can get reseller pricing if you send them a reseller tax certificate. Otherwise I we use Whirlwind MASS connectors as well as their W1 and W2 connectors.

[jay sayler]

try a whirlwind or a even cheaper a cpc connector sold by ramtech. much more reliable than a elco.

[tnjazz]

Originally Posted by jay sayler

try a whirlwind or a even cheaper a cpc connector sold by ramtech. much more reliable than a elco.

Links? I called Ramtech for a custom splitter quote and it was extremely costly.

I'm not looking to spend a fortune on connectors right now. That's why I'm looking into the DL connectors (instead of Elco).

These WILL be mated and unmated fairly regularly (splitters in our mobile rigs) so I'd rather not take a chance on Elco/Edac unless I absolutely have to. This is the main reason the Cannon DL looked like a really good option.

Point me to a good cheap Whirlwind or CPC and I'm all for it though!

[Juan T.]

I am not familiar with the Cannon DL connectors. The CPC connectors that was pointed out are not exclusive to Ramtech. They are made by AMP. If you Google "AMP CPC connectors" you well get many hits and sources. I am not that fond of the CPC connectors for much more than light use. I am quite surprised that Ramtech uses them. That is just my opinion as I have not really used them much but they don't look to be very rugged. As far the Whirlwind connectors let me know how many pins you require and what price range you are looking at. I am a Whirlwind dealer and will tell if if they are out of your range or not. You can get Whirlwind products from many sources.

[tnjazz]

Originally Posted by Juan T.

I am not familiar with the Cannon DL connectors. The CPC connectors that was pointed out are not exclusive to Ramtech. They are made by AMP. If you Google "AMP CPC connectors" you well get many hits and sources. I am not that fond of the CPC connectors for much more than light use. I am quite surprised that Ramtech uses them. That is just my opinion as I have not really used them much but they don't look to be very rugged. As far the Whirlwind connectors let me know how many pins you require and what price range you are looking at. I am a Whirlwind dealer and will tell if if they are out of your range or not. You can get Whirlwind products from many sources.

Thanks for the response, Juan T.!

Unfortunately at the present time I'm 99.9% positive that Whirlwind connectors are out of my price range. My price range is the Elco/DL one (anywhere from $30 - $100 per connector) and I'm looking at it for a pair of 24 channel splitters, so I guess that would be W6 or W3 connectors in MASS. Pretty sure I won't be going MASS in that price range though, will I?

MASS are certainly in the future - but I need something short term...

[Juan T.]

Yep, the WW MASS is out of your price range. I took a look at the Cannon DL's briefly and they look interesting. Let us know what you end up doing and how it works out.

[nathanvacha]

juan, i'm in need of some multipins for our mainsnake which is currently whirlwind 28 pr. i don't mind assembling them myself, so i'm looking for just the connectors. p.m. me if you want, or feel free to quote it right in the thread. i need two sets short term, but may get the ones for the split lines up front too, instead of ordering separately.

[Jim vanBergen]

Yo Dirk!

I use mostly Whirlwind, Wireworks, and Ramtech/Ramlatch on a regular basis as cheaper alterantives to the broadcast/mil-spec DT12. Biggest question, is what size (how many channels)?
I bought Whirlwind W1 connectors and trunks and put the connectors on myself, that saved me $$ and is worth the time if you don't want to pin your own mults, which is not very hard to do, but I think it's very hard to do extremely well. Maybe I'm just a klutz at pinning, YMMV.

IMO, you might want to contact Steve Remote directly, (unless he chimes in, I know he's super busy) as he has built more custom multipin than most people and he is a wealth of information for parts, reliability, and value!

Best regards,
JvB

[tnjazz]

Originally Posted by Jim vanBergen

Yo Dirk!

I use mostly Whirlwind, Wireworks, and Ramtech/Ramlatch on a regular basis as cheaper alterantives to the broadcast/mil-spec DT12. Biggest question, is what size (how many channels)?
I bought Whirlwind W1 connectors and trunks and put the connectors on myself, that saved me $$ and is worth the time if you don't want to pin your own mults, which is not very hard to do, but I think it's very hard to do extremely well. Maybe I'm just a klutz at pinning, YMMV.

IMO, you might want to contact Steve Remote directly, (unless he chimes in, I know he's super busy) as he has built more custom multipin than most people and he is a wealth of information for parts, reliability, and value!

Best regards,
JvB

Hi Jim!

Right now we're looking at wiring up a couple of 24 channel splitters and (optionally) a couple of returns. So I need something with 84 or more pins. I couldn't find any CPC bigger than 37 except for one reference to a 65 pin or something? Do they make CPC in a size I could use?

I don't mind crimping/soldering and doing all the work, so I'm just looking for the connectors (have the cable already). Problem is things are really slow right now and there's not much in the budget!

I spoke with someone "in the know" about the Cannons and he told me about a few issues they're prone to that might make Elcos a better fit for us right now.

These won't get uncoupled and connected daily, and it's really just something for us to use short term. Eventually we'll move to mass or similar, and repurpose the Elcos for a more fixed setup. That time is somewhere far off in the mists of the future right now though!

I did pass along some info to Steve via PM, but my budget is so shoestring that I doubt there's much he could do for me.

Problem is, there's so many options out there I just don't know where to look! So I'm open to any and all suggestions.

Thanks, fellow remotesters!
Dirk

[valleysound]

The standard for CPC that is common in audio is the 37 pin which is 12 channels of audio. I use one for my drive snake for my PA. I think if money is the number one concern Elco/Edac can't be beat. I've used mine hundreds of times over the years and never a problem. I am the only one connecting them and I always check for bent pins.

[tnjazz]

Originally Posted by valleysound

The standard for CPC that is common in audio is the 37 pin which is 12 channels of audio. I use one for my drive snake for my PA. I think if money is the number one concern Elco/Edac can't be beat. I've used mine hundreds of times over the years and never a problem. I am the only one connecting them and I always check for bent pins.

Yup, we talked about it today and that's the route we're going for now.

Is there a wiring standard I should be following for these? I've got a ProCo tape return connector here I've dissected and been looking at to figure out what I need to do, but I don't know if this is a standard pinout config or anything.

FWIW, I'm not too worried about making them proprietary, but it would be nice to conform to a standard if there is one for 24 channels on a 90 pin connector.

While on the subject, for 24+4 should I maybe go with the 120 pin connector instead, or should I jam everything into a 90 pin?

Suggestions?

Thanks everyone,
Dirk

[Remoteness]

I came up with a wiring standard before there was a standard a couple of decades ago.
It's a lot different than what I've seen to date.

I decided to go with two channels per row for the first 24 circuits rather than going vertical like the other designs.
With my two channel per row concept you have twelve channels above the screw and twelve channels below the screw.

In a dark or rough environment (IMO) i's a lot easier to find your channle when you only have two channels per row.

When we need more than 24 channels (up to 30) the next channels (25 to 28) are to the left and right of the screw going vertically. The remaining two circuits (29 & 30) hug the edge also going vertically.

We rarely need more than 24 circuits so this system works very well with us.
IMO it's very easy to figure out the layout without a diagram, especially when you're on the spot.

I will post our 90 pin ELCO/EDAC diagrams when I get back from our Cleveland gig.
Remind me if I forget to post it.

[tnjazz]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

I decided to go with two channels per row for the first 24 circuits rather than going vertical like the other designs.
With my two channel per row concept you have twelve channels above the screw and twelve channels below the screw.

Thanks Steve, that's exactly how this ProCo connector was wired! Two channels per row all the way down.

I even had the same thought about wiring the 4 return channels to the remaining vertical pins in the center to the left and right of the nut...

Great minds really DO think alike, don't they?
Dirk

[Remoteness]

Yes, they do

That's very interesting.
I've seen them going (only) vertically and thought it was too much to process on the spot.
I'm glad to see others decided to go with a more simple wiring plan.

[Juan T.]

Originally Posted by tnjazz

Is there a wiring standard I should be following for these? I've got a ProCo tape return connector here I've dissected and been looking at to figure out what I need to do, but I don't know if this is a standard pinout config or anything.

I generally refer to the color codes and pinouts available for download fom the Whirlwind site. The wire color codes generally follow Belden standards when possible. Link below:

http://www.whirlwindusa.com/dload.html#ccode

[Remoteness]

I believe Dirk was asking about a pinout diagram for the 90 pin EDAC/ELCO connector.

In any event, the Whirlwind link is a very good resource for sure!

Originally Posted by Juan T.

I generally refer to the color codes and pinouts available for download fom the Whirlwind site. The wire color codes generally follow Belden standards when possible. Link below:

http://www.whirlwindusa.com/dload.html#ccode

[Juan T.]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

I believe Dirk was asking about a pinout diagram for the 90 pin EDAC/ELCO connector.

In any event, the Whirlwind link is a very good resource for sure!

The various Elco pin outs are there, take a closer look.

[Juan T.]

ProCo's links in case you want a second opinion.

These are direct PDF links.

Multipins:
http://www.procosound.com/downloads/...uts%202004.pdf

Color code:
http://www.procosound.com/downloads/...or%20Codes.pdf

[Remoteness]

Originally Posted by Juan T.

The various Elco pin outs are there, take a closer look.

Yep, it sure is... I just looked closer.

And, I still think it's a good resource, but I would not wire an ELCO90 the way they suggest.

IMO, the two circuits per row system (rather than the column method) is a much better pinout when you have to figure out a problem under the gun.

But, hey -- do what you folks think is best for your situation.
That's what I did.

[tnjazz]

Wow, that's really weird. This 90 pin I have was made by Pro Co (at least that's what it says on the cable jacket) but it's pinned the way Steve suggests. It's definitely not wired the way the PDF on the site indicates.

Maybe someone modded it after the fact? Who knows? I agree, their pin wiring doesn't seem as logical as this one.

Ah well, I'm not going to worry about it. We won't be interfacing these with other systems anyway. So I think I'm going to pin it the way it makes the most sense to me.

Thanks for the great resource though, Juan! That will come in very handy in the future.
Dirk

[Juan T.]

Originally Posted by tnjazz

Wow, that's really weird. This 90 pin I have was made by Pro Co (at least that's what it says on the cable jacket) but it's pinned the way Steve suggests. It's definitely not wired the way the PDF on the site indicates.

It was likely bought as bulk cable and raw connectors and assembled as needed.

If you are certain you will never need to interface with a cable or device someone may bring you and you or your staff will always be the one troubleshooting it if needed than of course pin it the way you like. If you ever need an extension cable/breakout from someone else's inventory or it is a rental piece using a recognized standard may be helpful.

[tnjazz]

What I may do is build a little shorty adapter cable wired from my pinout to the "standard" in case I ever need it.

The connectors are cheap enough and I figure at the very least it'll be good practice, since we'll be making all our own connectors going forward anyway.

Might seem like overkill a bit to some, but I do think Steve's suggested pinout config makes a LOT more sense than the "standard". Someone must have been high when they came up with that, because there's no way I'd be able to figure it out in the field if I had a problem. With the "two connectors per row" setup all I have to do is count (and hope I can count as high as 24!)

Thanks again,
Dirk

[Remoteness]

Back in the Day "The Toy Specialists" went with the same pinout we use since here was no standard (at that time) and I was renting a lot of stuff from them...

You never know, maybe ProCo built a few cables for The Toy Specialists and others that may have followed the trend.

In any event, Someone either re-pinned the connector or built it to that standard.
I will do my best to upload our pinout when I get back to NYC.