Best of flying mics

[JonesH]

Originally Posted by 0VU

This may come across as a little harsh but JFC on a bike! Are you both insane?

I didn't react at first, but at second view the arrangement seems a bit scary. Was the nail in a publicly accessible area? Could the clamp have been knocked away?

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by 0VU

This may come across as a little harsh but JFC on a bike! Are you both insane?

I appreciate that the molegrips stunt is only for some adjustment cords (I hope) but using lightweight luggage tiedowns for load bearing slings, above people, is irresponsible in the extreme.

I do hope you don't bother paying for public liability or equipment insurance because no insurance company is ever going to pay out on claim against a rig like that and if it collapses and injures someone (or worse) you won't have a leg to stand on, legally or morally. If I ran a venue and found you doing that, you'd be out within minutes and never work there again!

Of course I'm leaping to the conclusion here that you haven't had everything load tested and certified safe for the use to which you're putting it but the molegrips thing does make me doubt that!

Words fail me! Terrifying.

My reply was very Tongue in cheek and I don't sling like that.

I have not had to sling for a while now, but the last time I used non-stretch nylon rope from a ships chandler, certified for far more than I was putting on it.



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[Audiop]

Nylon ropes are strong as h_ll if you pick the right one, no worries there. I do some rock climbing on and off and also often work with high buildings and use climbing gear to secure myself and to haul vertically.

To be on the safe side, do a test to see how much your solution can stand and then use two ropes.

The nail and clamp solution is something I would never dream of using though!


/Peter

[JonesH]

Originally Posted by Audiop

The nail and clamp solution is something I would never dream of using though!


/Peter

I usually think somewhere along your line (!) of thought; would I be comfortable suspending myself off of this rig at this height? If not, I won't fly my mics there either.

[David.H]

Originally Posted by 0VU

This may come across as a little harsh but JFC on a bike! Are you both insane?

I appreciate that the molegrips stunt is only for some adjustment cords (I hope) but using lightweight luggage tiedowns for load bearing slings, above people, is irresponsible in the extreme.

I do hope you don't bother paying for public liability or equipment insurance because no insurance company is ever going to pay out on claim against a rig like that and if it collapses and injures someone (or worse) you won't have a leg to stand on, legally or morally. If I ran a venue and found you doing that, you'd be out within minutes and never work there again!

Of course I'm leaping to the conclusion here that you haven't had everything load tested and certified safe for the use to which you're putting it but the molegrips thing does make me doubt that!

Words fail me! Terrifying.

The Mole clamps were only used on the forward nylon cords to enable the mike system to be pulled nearer the performers. It was a four-way sling with the rear two being the main supports as you can see from the photo. Should one or even both of the forward anchors have given away the mikes would not have reached any body underneath. The Mole clamps were high up WELL AWAY from the public. If the clamps had given way they would have simply dropped harmlessly down out of harms way. They would NOT have sprung off into the audience. Regarding the nails, these were no lightweights; these were vigorously checked to see if they were tight. Incidentally, the system was rigged last Thursday morning; the concert took place the following Saturday evening. So my mikes were hanging there before the Saturday evening gig for nearly 2 ½ days!

Regarding the load bearing of the nylon cords and strapping, these were well within the load requirements of the AKG 414 combined weights with the Starquad cable attached. As mentioned in my last post I had a devil of a job removing the strapping due to the tightness and security that the strapping ratchet had produced.

In view of this and the fact that there were no other suitable anchor points forward of the mikes and their position between the two pillars was too far back what would you have done? Ruling out any kind of stand.

While I appreciate and understand your comments the tone was unwarranted. When we go out to record an event we are very much concerned with public safety, and we do not work like a bunch of amateurs whatever you might think.

[WVUtubadude]

I think it is just a simple matter of him not completely understanding exactly what you were doing. It took me quite a bit of staring at the pics and reading the explanation to understand.

In fact, I liked the ratchet strap (not lightweight luggage tie down) idea so much that I am concept testing it now for a job next year where I have very large pillars at my disposal.

[Plush]

Originally Posted by David.H

I recently used the nylon tie downs that I mentioned in this thread some time ago that might be good to use on church pillars. Well the outcome was that they did the job superbly. However, one thing to watch out for is to not over tighten the straps around the pillar. To remove them I found that two pawls had to be ejected from the toothed spindle. At the top of a ladder, take my advice and do not over tighten, you need to be able to release them easily. On this particular gig we could not find suitable front fixings for my front mike cords, my photo shows how we got over it by using Mole wrenches on redundant nails! Needs must as they say.

Outrageous and very inventive to solve an immediate problem. But the Mole wrench has to go. It is too hazardous. I think you could fashion a different retainer to do the same job.
If that wrench falls, you're definitely out of business and broke besides.

[zoom]

not very spectacular, but this was necessary to avoid a mic stand directly in front of the stage:
2 flying CMC /MK2H in small AB as main mics.

In that case the stereo-bar was easy to fix and to adjust on the grating on the left and right side...

[9sbean]

Originally Posted by zoom

not very spectacular, but this was necessary to avoid a mic stand directly in front of the stage:
2 flying CMC /MK2H in small AB as main mics.

In that case the stereo-bar was easy to fix and to adjust on the grating on the left and right side...

Wow, I wish I'll have a chance to record in this beautiful church.

[WVUtubadude]

How much support cabling (rope) do you guys keep on hand for flying?

[David.H]

Originally Posted by WVUtubadude

How much support cabling do you guys keep on hand for flying?

I keep four 50 meter lengths of Starquad for pairs use

[pkautzsch]

About 20 mtrs of wire rope, another 20 mtrs thickish stretched nylon rope. If a venue exceeds this, I'll buy a longer rope.
I don't usually fly on lo-budget gigs. Takes way too much time.

[Sheikyearbouti]

Hi guys.
This thread has been very useful for me and I absolutely love it.

I see that most of you don't use shock mounts when flying. Assuming that the mic cables have been taped/cable tied to the stereo bar before reaching the transducers, do you think that there could be a need of such?

Thanks

[David Spearritt]

Assuming that the mic cables have been taped/cable tied to the stereo bar before reaching the transducers, do you think that there could be a need of such?

We don't do it even for quite heavy mics, provided the cable is good quality woven mesh shield and you use Neutrik connectors with their thoroughly excellent jaws and clutch grip to the cable and shield.

Make doubly sure that the Neutrik connector is pushed home past the "click". Remove, if they exist, any funny (a la Neumann) rubber o-ring spacers from the mic to allow this to happen easily.

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by David Spearritt

We don't do it even for quite heavy mics, provided the cable is good quality woven mesh shield and you use Neutrik connectors with their thoroughly excellent jaws and clutch grip to the cable and shield.

Make doubly sure that the Neutrik connector is pushed home past the "click". Remove, if they exist, any funny (a la Neumann) rubber o-ring spacers from the mic to allow this to happen easily.

I do tend to use shockmounts when flying and would certainly do so if the gallery was being sold to minimise the risk of audience fiddling.

The Neumann rubber ring was for Switchcraft connectors - remove if you use something different. I now prefer the Neutrik EMC series which have a ring of "teeth".

Sent from my iPhone using Gearslutz

[pkautzsch]

Originally Posted by Sheikyearbouti

Hi guys.
This thread has been very useful for me and I absolutely love it.

I see that most of you don't use shock mounts when flying. Assuming that the mic cables have been taped/cable tied to the stereo bar before reaching the transducers, do you think that there could be a need of such?

Thanks

The rope is the shockmount, as long as there aren't any children on the gallery plucking the rope like a guitar string.
Flying often is about visuals, and shockmounts are the first thing "visual" people complain about. You don't even need stereo bars all the time, see attachment and my other extensive flying thread A Week of Festival Fun

[Sheikyearbouti]

Originally Posted by pkautzsch

Flying often is about visuals, and shockmounts are the first thing "visual" people complain about.

This is exactly what I want to avoid. Thanks.

[David.H]

Originally Posted by pkautzsch

The rope is the shockmount, as long as there aren't any children on the gallery plucking the rope like a guitar string.
Flying often is about visuals, and shockmounts are the first thing "visual" people complain about. You don't even need stereo bars all the time, see attachment and my other extensive flying thread A Week of Festival Fun

I have found noise will transmit though the suspension. However I never use mike suspensions due to weight/visual aspect. So as mentioned if someone does touch/pluck the suspended assembly from a balcony you will hear it. This would have to be taken into account when rigging.

[WVUtubadude]

Has anyone experimented with temporary anchors? Namely something like two heavy duty light stands with sandbags?

[claying]

Originally Posted by WVUtubadude

Has anyone experimented with temporary anchors? Namely something like two heavy duty light stands with sandbags?

I tried suspending mics using two 4m light stand with extra 6kg weight added to each base. The stands were ~10m apart with a pair of DPA 4060 hanging at mid point on nylon fishing line. As the 4060 is extra light-weight, the mics could be safely hung up over 3.5m by the 4m stands.

I once tried to hang up a stereo bar on the above array, but the stands were about to bend and collapse not even the bar rose up to 2m. The weight of a stereo bar, two standard SDC mics, cables and plugs are around half a kilo if not more. The torque is basically too great for the telescoping stands to withstand. Unless you use minatures, otherwise, this seems do not work!

[studentjohn36]

Here's 2 Blue Omnimouse mics about 22 feet above a stage with an orchestra. Results were fantastic.

[gsbe]

To revive an old thread....

How about a permanent install of flying mics? I'd like to be able to pull them back from the lip of the stage out over the audience, allow them to drop down, modify the angle, etc. How do venues permanently mount these types of flying systems?

I'm initially interested in flying 2 omni's on a single stereo bar but would like to leave my options open for it to support a bit more like a small Decca tree. Do you use the mic cables for support or do you run special cables? Do you use some sort of winch on the ends to make it easier to lock in place?

I've also been thinking about the ETS Instasnake for running 4 channels of audio through an Cat5 cable...any experience with that?

[Bibster]

Originally Posted by gsbe

I've also been thinking about the ETS Instasnake for running 4 channels of audio through an Cat5 cable...any experience with that?

After reading about them here, I instantly turned on my soldering iron!
I've got a 100m run and a 25m, both made my the company who does all the serverrooms here. Cat5e (you'll need the shielding for pin 1). Put neutrik ethercon's over the RJ45 plugs. (Yes, they finally got sane you can now put the housing on AFTER the plug... Man, that s*cks when you forgot to put the housing for a 125A/380V plug, but I digress)

I also made a tiny box (3x3x5 cm or so) with an ethercon chassis , some 10cm cable with 5pin XLS for a stereo mic and 35cm with xrl on both sides: Perfect match for a S502 and a par of omnis on a bar!

Also: Ethercons come in D-size, so they fit rackpanels. Either for breakout or fixed install.

My my purpose, this rocks, I do not perceive any sonic loss, but I'm deaf, so A friend of mine did the same thing for the theatre he works in: They have cat 4 patched *everywhere*. He made runs up'n'down the building, totalling almost 600m: No real HF loss, only some level...

Give it a try, works like s charm, easy to DIY as well, but then remember to keep each pair, well.. a pair, so:
pin 1&2, 3&6, 4&5 and 7&8

Cheers,

Paul

[ESL]

This vendor is at the top of my list for a motorized solution:
Welcome to Servoreeler Systems

To pull into position, a reel (loaded with 30lb test Berkley Fireline) clamped to a lighting rail does the trick:

[Gaston69]

Dpa decca tree (4006 & 2006)

[Gaston69]

Originally Posted by ESL

This vendor is at the top of my list for a motorized solution:
Welcome to Servoreeler Systems

To pull into position, a reel (loaded with 30lb test Berkley Fireline) clamped to a lighting rail does the trick:

Where is the Like button.

I was looking for a system like this, do you happen to know what the costs are?

[ESL]

Originally Posted by Gaston69

Where is the Like button.

I was looking for a system like this, do you happen to know what the costs are?

I've attached their 2011 price sheet but I'm sure they'd be happy to send the latest if you request it. The cost of installation and maintenance is what concerns me.

Good luck!

[gsbe]

Correct me if I'm wrong- the Servoreeler System provides an easy way to move a bar of mics up and down in a fixed location. You can have as many locations as you have the budget for.

I want a system that can allow for experimentation in more than one dimension. Who makes one of those? To head off any canned responses two dimensions will be plenty, thanks.

[gsbe]

ESL - are you're saying that you use fishing line and a reel to pull the other dimension into place in conjunction with a Servoreeler from above? I didn't get that on first read...

Originally Posted by ESL

This vendor is at the top of my list for a motorized solution:
Welcome to Servoreeler Systems

To pull into position, a reel (loaded with 30lb test Berkley Fireline) clamped to a lighting rail does the trick:

[gsbe]

Paul - can you give us a picture of your tiny box with the Ethercons and other connectors? I'd like to see it! Sounds lovely

Originally Posted by Bibster

I also made a tiny box (3x3x5 cm or so) with an ethercon chassis , some 10cm cable with 5pin XLS for a stereo mic and 35cm with xrl on both sides: Perfect match for a S502 and a par of omnis on a bar!