Best of flying mics

[David Spearritt]

Originally Posted by Larry Elliott

David
What is the “Stereo” cabling that you are using?

Larry Elliott

Hi Larry

Its Canare stereo snake, will edit this message with the model number later, if I can find it. Its pretty tough and can support its own weight hanging from most ceilings.

[David Spearritt]

Originally Posted by d_fu

Interesting question...

I also kinda like the M/S mic holder (even though I don't like M/S )...
I see the AKG SA 40, but what's underneath?


Daniel

Hi Daniel, yes there is the AKG clip and there is a Sennheiser MZD30 holding the two mics together, plus some gaffer as the Schoeps and the KM120 are not quite the diameter of the MKH mics.
http://shop.sennheiserusa.com/retail...D30_normal.jpg

[sonare]

I was in London last week and caught a Proms concert. Most interesting! I counted around 37 mics--- 6 main arrays and a fleet of spots (ww, harp, perc, tymps, every section of the orchestra, plus the ever-popular BBC 414s on a stand about 10 ft to the RIGHT of the solo piano). The pic shows a few of the main arrays.

A knowledgeable colleague explained that they put up everything imaginable and each crew hauls their favorite into position.

The most interesting feature were the rings at about 1m intervals that allowed precise positioning and hanging of various arrays.

Rich

[Remoteness]

This thread is way too good to have off topic discussions messing everything up...

I moved that stuff here>> Have you ever tried the Shure Ezo mics?

I trust this shall be okay with everyone involved.

If you want to post about your best flying mics and such, please do it here.
If you want to chat about the other stuff, do it in that thread only.

Okay? Okay! Now, back to the show.

[fifthcircle]

Back on subject- found a few older pictures of the hanging rig we used at the Ojai Music Festival (pix from 2006, but it didn't change this year). The orchestra in the picture is the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra.

We had to hang from a truss system on the front of the stage in front of the bowl cover (which is permanent). Mic cables and tie lines went along the truss in a pulley system to allow for adjustment from the side of the stage. The hanger for the single mic is my 3-way hinge hanger that allows for constant mic position as the position changes.

We hung the array of 5 omnis across (tree plus flanks) for both recording and sound reinforcement. The sound there was done in surround for the good seats and the majority of the amplified sound came from those overhead mics. Means there isn't a huge amount of gain before feedback, but there is plenty to allow the system to run as transparently as possible.

--Ben

[d_fu]

Originally Posted by pkautzsch

Larger pic might be somewhere on some disk, I'll have to search a bit. Hopefully next week.

Rather a long week...
Any news?

[rootsandruins]

...what about a mic that flies itself?

[pkautzsch]

Originally Posted by d_fu

Rather a long week...
Any news?

Sorry, no news. Apparently I deleted it.
I hope there will be lots of flying mics at the end of November, as I'm planning a very flexible flying setup for a festival. Just need to get permissions from some of the artists

rootsandruins' idea will probably have some wing noise issues, I'm afraid.
Would actually be a good usage of The Force

[hughesmr]

Of course, Ray Kimber's IsoMike array might be the hands-down winner for "best" of flying mics....

isomike gallery

[Remoteness]

Mr. Kimber's IsoMike array is indeed an awesome rig.

[leland]

In the process of trying to refine my flying rig I finally found this thread... so I'd like to resurrect the thread by posting some pics of my first flying mic gig, and ask a few questions of those more experienced individuals.

The gig was at St John' Smith Square in London. They insisted on flying the mics as they couldn't have stands in the big money seats....

Not knowing anything about flying a mic array caused me a few problems and panic over my lovely mics falling off and inadvertently injuring members of the audience (and destroying themselves). I used two Royer SF1s in Blumlein configuration as the main pair with a Sennheiser MKH80/30 combo in MS as a safety. These were hung on two metal ropes that I had made that were attached to the railings in the upper balcony. Now I wasn't sure about how exactly how to attach the metal ropes themselves - and ended up using normal rope just tied on (with many many knots and cable tie safeties) Positioning the mics themselves was very hit and miss - thank god for cable ties.

My questions:

There is such limited time for repositioning the mics in these situations. If you don't get it right, how do you reposition the mics? In my case it would have meant taking the whole rig down and repositioning the rope - and it would take so long to undo everything it wasn't really feasible. Do any of you use some kind of quick release system?

Creaking of the cables feeding into the mics. My method of securing the mic clips was just using multiple cable ties, so after balancing everything so they pointed where I wanted them to, they would still swing in any slight breeze and cause creaking as the mic holders rubbed on the wire. At least, that's what I think the sound was.... I need to figure out a better method of securing the mics to the rope. Any ideas? The piece of angled metal in the first post may be the way forward....

Also, from the pics of the other rigs I've looked at, they are much closer in than I've been using - my mics are 15-20 feet behind the conductor. This sounds ok to me, and I wasn't sure about getting closer 'cos the orchestra because of the Blumlein mic configuration.

I'm using these arrays because it's what I have available - and the Royers did sound amazing from an imaging point of view - much, much better imaging than the MS Sennheiser pair.

[d_fu]

Nice location - what was the program?

Originally Posted by leland

There is such limited time for repositioning the mics in these situations. If you don't get it right, how do you reposition the mics? In my case it would have meant taking the whole rig down and repositioning the rope - and it would take so long to undo everything it wasn't really feasible.

I try to make sure I can reposition the rope without taking down mics. It depends on how you tie it up... Pretty often, though, there is only one possible position for a rope, then I'll just have to live with that.

Do any of you use some kind of quick release system?
(....)
I need to figure out a better method of securing the mics to the rope. Any ideas? The piece of angled metal in the first post may be the way forward....

It makes life easier indeed. It not only keeps the setup parallel to the rope (or facing forward in your case), it also is my "quick release", because I can just pull the mics back towards me, e.g. onto the balcony, when taking stuff down. The bar is just connected to the rope with a couple of carabiners. This way, I don't have to climb any letters at the end of the show.

I'm using these arrays because it's what I have available - and the Royers did sound amazing from an imaging point of view - much, much better imaging than the MS Sennheiser pair.

Can you post short samples?

Daniel

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by leland

I..............The gig was at St John' Smith Square in London. They insisted on flying the mics as they couldn't have stands in the big money seats....

I have recorded there may times and made my flying rig originally for that venue.

Where did you tie off to? It looks like high points - I always used to tie the rope off on the balcony rail.

My mic. mount was a stereo bar with the bottom half of 4 mic. clamps mounted on the ends and the rope threaded through the holes (so I could mount two of these).

I could mount a single mic. or MS pair in the centre hole - or with a stand-off mount a second stereo bar underneath for an XY or ORTF pair. Having the Ambient swivel was good for this as the articulation would compensate for the off-set on the rope caused by running the cables along it to one side.

I used to run the rope and slung it low so you could attach the mics at floor level and then pull the rope up to the correct height afterwards.

My method of mounting meant that, with a long pole, I could slide the mics along the rope to the correct position.

I hope this helps.

[David.H]

I’m not familiar with this hall so my method may not be of use. However, I use it for most locations, which require the flying method of the main pair. As an example; Leeds Town Hall has rails on the balconies. I use 4 fixings fitted to the rails at least 8 to10 feet or more apart, which take four nylon cables to the microphone hanger. The cables are taken down to floor level via my balcony fixings and tied off on a convenient heating pipe or a suitable fixing that might be to hand. Rigged like that, its possible to move the mikes forward or back via the four nylon cords from the floor level. I often stand under the mikes when locating them to the right place. My picture does not show the tying off, but you can see the rig over the orchestra. In this situation tying off at balcony level is just not on, it’s just not practical due to the height of the first balcony. Incidentally you need to tidy your cables, those huge loops don’t look good, the mike cables should be taped every few feet along the support line. In order to lighten the weight of the mike cable, I have used Starquad cable for two mikes using the four internal wires, and I know some people do not approve of that. You also have the safety factor of four support lines to the microphones, be they X-Y ORTF Blumlein.

[d_fu]

Originally Posted by David.H

Leeds Town Hall

Wow - I should move to England if one gets to record in halls like this there...

[d_fu]

Here's something I used yesterday - combining main mics (MKH 40 in a DFU setup.. ) and soloists' spots (Beyer MC 805 hypers).

[brle]

Originally Posted by d_fu

Here's something I used yesterday - combining main mics (MKH 40 in a DFU setup.. ) and soloists' spots (Beyer MC 805 hypers).

Hi,
as my main mics are mostly MKH 40´s, is it possible for you to post a sample of that unusual wide configuration of them (i estimate it must be over 50cm)?
Are there specific benefits of that setup in large churches (i could easily became a follower of "DFU setup")?
Thanks for sharing!

Sascha

[d_fu]

Originally Posted by brle

as my main mics are mostly MKH 40´s, is it possible for you to post a sample of that unusual wide configuration of them (i estimate it must be over 50cm)?

Is this enough for a short impression (MKH only)? If you want more, I'll mail or ftp you some

Are there specific benefits of that setup in large churches (i could easily became a follower of "DFU setup")?

The benfit ist that I like it..
And the idea is that where omnis alone may be too ambient, and where a Straus setup would use two more channels, the MKH 40 with its slight tendency towards a wide cardioid and very smooth off-axis response without treble peaks (at least according to a digram published by a magazine, which I've posted elsewhere here) will provide a nice compromise. Some more "reach" and rear rejection than omnis, yet good bass and smooth off-axis sound.

I've used it wider setups also, around 80 cm (facing forward a bit more). The secret of the DFU setup is the totally unscientific approach, configuring the distance and angle purely by optical assessment of the situation and gut feeling, different every time...

(Disclaimer: This is not the finished recording, it's just the main mics... I did carefully add choir and solo spots)

[gareth.h.rees]

Originally Posted by d_fu

...and soloists' spots (Beyer MC 805 hypers).

Are the Beyer's the mics on the lower bar? If so, were they pointing at anything specific (as spots?)

How far is the bottom of the array from the orchestra (distance and height)?

As you say, it varies every time But just for an idea

The clip sounds pretty awesome to me on its own!

Gareth

[hughesmr]

Originally Posted by d_fu

The secret of the DFU setup is the totally unscientific approach, configuring the distance and angle purely by optical assessment of the situation and gut feeling, different every time...

That would be setting up according to IOTT methodology, which I frequently incorporate.

[d_fu]

Originally Posted by gareth.h.rees

Are the Beyer's the mics on the lower bar?

They are indeed. Wouldn't trade these for (almost) anything... tnjazz pointed out this pair on ebay to me, I might have otherwise missed them...

How far is the bottom of the array from the orchestra (distance and height)?

See picture below. The Beyers picked up the soloists quite well... There s an additional stand with a Beyer 803 on the left, for the duets.

The clip sounds pretty awesome to me on its own!

Thanks.

Originally Posted by hughesmr

That would be setting up according to IOTT methodology, which I frequently incorporate.

Wot be dis?
The only refernce I find is IOTT - What does IOTT stand for? Acronyms and abbreviations by the Free Online Dictionary.

[hughesmr]

Originally Posted by d_fu

Wot be dis?
The only refernce I find is IOTT - What does IOTT stand for? Acronyms and abbreviations by the Free Online Dictionary.

Intraocular Trauma Test. (aka "eyeballing" it)

[dortola]

Originally Posted by d_fu

The clip sounds pretty awesome to me on its own!

d_fu: Could you please upload more? It's fantastic!
Thanks.

[José Santos]

Hi all,
I just found this on the Ambient site. I know this is not really flying mics, but might be of some help to someone in here. I like. And it looks nice, no?

José

[gareth.h.rees]

Originally Posted by dortola

d_fu: Could you please upload more? It's fantastic!
Thanks.

If you have any more pictures that would be great too! Especially of the fixing points for the flying rig!

Do you aim the beyer's on the bottom bar at a particular section, or are they used as just a general pair for the choir (or instruments - can't quite tell)

Just trying to learn how people go about all this

Gareth

[d_fu]

Originally Posted by gareth.h.rees

Do you aim the beyer's on the bottom bar at a particular section

Yes, at the vocal soloists on each side of the conductor... They pick up a bit of strings along the way.
Haven't got any pictures of fixing points, there are two convenient hooks in the wall, but to climb up there is always a bit scary (on the balcony railings...)

[brle]

Originally Posted by d_fu

Is this enough for a short impression (MKH only)? If you want more, I'll mail or ftp you some

Thank you very much Daniel,
beautiful sound indeed (apart from that poor male singers were just blown away by sopranos ). I will certainly consider wider A-B cardiodid setups with MKH40´s more from now...

Sascha

[mrsteaks]

Originally Posted by hughesmr

That would be setting up according to IOTT methodology, which I frequently incorporate.

Time tested, empirically accurate...I too subscribe to this (fine) method of mic placement (ahem).... I've heard it called SWAG, too.

[d_fu]

Originally Posted by mrsteaks

I've heard it called SWAG, too.

Scientific Wild Ass Guess?

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by José Santos

Hi all,
I just found this on the Ambient site. I know this is not really flying mics, but might be of some help to someone in here. I like. And it looks nice, no?

José

Something very useful that Ambient do that is perfect for flying is this:
Picture one: QAVS1

The QAVS swivel that enables a rig to always hang vertical - and not be pulled out of true by the weight of the mic cables.

This pic. shows it on a pole, but gives the idea:
Picture two: QAVS2

Actually this page has lots of nice little useful goodies.