CHOIR ...recording...

xl-sander · 24th March 2004

hi guys im going to record the disney children choir in berlin for a popsong we are doing for the tv show six feet under(but for the german version) and i wanted to ask for some help on mic decision and placment for recording a child choir... all i hve right now is a pair of km184 and one u87(innertube) so what mics should i get more? or do i really have to? mic placement is very important...shall i use a/b or what do you prefer?? any help is very appreciated

toolstudio · 24th March 2004

Hi,

I don't know how big the choir is, but I had great results with 2 AEA R84 in blumlein through a gml 8304 on the last project I did. But that needed much experience, and I don't know if that works for big choirs (ours were 10 people).

With our innertube 87 I only worked at near distanced, I don't know about larger distances.
The 184 would be o.k. but not great if you want a homogen and smooth sound, especialy on a kids choir it could be a bit harsh sound.
Do you have any access to a stereo mic, like a neumann SM69 ?
I would try XY with a small capsule, do you have schöps cmc5 or 6s ?
How is the location you are recording in ? Which preamps do you use ?

wolfgang

toolhouse studios,germany

xl-sander · 24th March 2004

thx...

whats aea r84
i guess the choir isnt much bigger than 10-15 children...
im not sure where i can rent sm69 in berlin..actually im afraid i cant
even shoeps cant be rented in berlin too i guess...if someone knows wehre...tel me please...
(tho where in a million metroploe...damn)

as preamp i will use my dan alexander neve 1272 clone ( i recorded strings and cello with it using two km 184 and two shure ksm32, it sounded good to me) the room is a studio room, about 2,50 high and âcoustically treated(most of it is carpet and foam) it has a little decay tho (a little like a little kammermusikssal)

xy sounds good to me...why you think its better than klein a-b?

would you place the mics in front of the choir? about 2m high?

would u a innertube u87 (omni) for recording as well(mabye in the middle of the choir?...
or you think phase problems are too big??

thx alot again...

toolstudio · 24th March 2004

Hi,

aea r84 are ribbon mics, in germany avaible through the guys at morphon (www.morphon.de). And I'm really excited about the mics.
They have a very smooth but detailed sound picture. I tried it with a blumlein, the two mics on top of eachother, and put the choir around it. You need to adjust the voices by letting them step forward or back.

Try AB also with small capsules and check yourself what you like better. I usualy do that kind of recording with XY.

I don't know what you mean with the innertube inside the choir, if you mean between the lines, than I guess that it doesn't make much sense and you will get phasing hell when you combine it with the main mics.
I would try to get the sound out of the main mics, and use aditional mikes as spot mikes for safety and get a bit upfront.

2.50m is not very high, but as I don't know the room I don't know, but hear about any pressure fx when you put the mics close to the ceiling.

wolfgang

toolhouse studios, germany

PRS1JAZZ · 24th March 2004

Earthworks QTC1's my friend! These things will really get the job done!

joeq · 24th March 2004

I used a Decca Tree set up for a gospel choir recently and was very pleased with the results. I felt like I could pick out each singer from left to right.

lefthando · 26th March 2004

Recently I used a pair of KM 184's in an ORTF pattern just behind the diretor. Then back in the room I used a spaced pair of Rode NT-2's set to omni; spot mics on soloists and the harp; Millenia preamps and I was very pleased with the results.

Nathanael · 27th March 2004

I'd rent some killer omnis (DPA or Schoeps) and use a jecklin disk if the room is good.

Overdrive · 27th March 2004

With your mic collection I would go ORTF with the 184 right behind or in front of the conductor and spot mic any soloist there is with the 87.
If you are in Germany try sourcing more 87s and use those instead of the 184s. I kind of like getting real near the group so the presence and spatial spread is maximized. 87 are softer than the small cap 184...
Good, quite, reliable pre amps are essential to this task too.

For a choir bring the mic up to at least 2 meters so the mics can "see" the back row of the singers with a clean straight line. then angle them appropriately.

Good Luck

Han · 27th March 2004

Another vote for ORTF with the 184's here, it'll do just fine.

You could also try the 184's in NOS (angle 90 deg, diaphragms 30 cm apart)

You will have a better stereo image with ORTF and NOS than with XY.

Forget about AB placement with KM184's.

I always try to record the childrens a number of times and mix all the tracks in order to get a 'bigger' choir.

Remember also that working with children is great fun, but you can't work too long with them. The first takes they will be a little shy, then comes the time they get enthusiastic and will perform great. Soon after that they can get overenthusiastic, time to stop the show then!

Jay Kahrs · 27th March 2004

Remember that it's for TV so you gotta think about mono compatibility. I'd probably try a stereo X/Y with the KM184's and maybe toss the U87 in the mix and do MS. When mixing maybe add a little chorused 'verb into the mix to make it bigger.

Brad Lunde · 28th March 2004

Quote:

Originally posted by Jay Kahrs
Remember that it's for TV so you gotta think about mono compatibility. <SNIP>

Jay's right. I would get your hands a SoundField 422b or Mark 5 if you can with Nuendo platform SoundField Plug In. One recording, mono, M/S, stereo or 5.1. The imaging is is awesome. Some also use spot mics with a SF to get a different balance than exists in the room.

SoundFields are great when ever the room is important or its a very large source (and therefore the room is part of the experience).
Brad

djui5 · 28th March 2004

If it's for TV then a decca tree or a wide A/B with a center mic is almost necessary. MS would also work well.

Maybe u67's....although you've allready got some great mic suggestions and all will fair you great results if mic'd right...

**Remoteness** · 21st December 2004

XL, how did the session workout?

24th March 2004	#1
xl-sander Gear nut Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Berlin - Deutschland Posts: 144 Thread Starter	CHOIR ...recording... hi guys im going to record the disney children choir in berlin for a popsong we are doing for the tv show six feet under(but for the german version) and i wanted to ask for some help on mic decision and placment for recording a child choir... all i hve right now is a pair of km184 and one u87(innertube) so what mics should i get more? or do i really have to? mic placement is very important...shall i use a/b or what do you prefer?? any help is very appreciated

27th March 2004	#9
Overdrive Gear maniac Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In Line Posts: 192	With your mic collection I would go ORTF with the 184 right behind or in front of the conductor and spot mic any soloist there is with the 87. If you are in Germany try sourcing more 87s and use those instead of the 184s. I kind of like getting real near the group so the presence and spatial spread is maximized. 87 are softer than the small cap 184... Good, quite, reliable pre amps are essential to this task too. For a choir bring the mic up to at least 2 meters so the mics can "see" the back row of the singers with a clean straight line. then angle them appropriately. Good Luck __________________ Overdrive

28th March 2004	#13
djui5 Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Phoenix Posts: 6,661	If it's for TV then a decca tree or a wide A/B with a center mic is almost necessary. MS would also work well. Maybe u67's....although you've allready got some great mic suggestions and all will fair you great results if mic'd right... __________________ _________________ "What is a crossfire hurricane & why wasn't I born in one?" Randy Wright

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Gregorian Choir recording samples	andy_simpson	Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording	17	18th April 2008 11:58 AM
Cheap headphones for choir recording	Han	Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording	13	13th April 2008 05:58 PM
choir recording tips	maestro	Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording	26	9th May 2007 12:07 AM
Mix and Match mics and pres for choir recording	Clueless	Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording	7	9th May 2005 07:08 PM
LD condensers and orchestra, choir recording	Onan	Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording	13	4th May 2005 07:47 PM

24th March 2004	#2
toolstudio Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 818	Hi, I don't know how big the choir is, but I had great results with 2 AEA R84 in blumlein through a gml 8304 on the last project I did. But that needed much experience, and I don't know if that works for big choirs (ours were 10 people). With our innertube 87 I only worked at near distanced, I don't know about larger distances. The 184 would be o.k. but not great if you want a homogen and smooth sound, especialy on a kids choir it could be a bit harsh sound. Do you have any access to a stereo mic, like a neumann SM69 ? I would try XY with a small capsule, do you have schöps cmc5 or 6s ? How is the location you are recording in ? Which preamps do you use ? wolfgang toolhouse studios,germany

24th March 2004	#5
PRS1JAZZ Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Worcester, MA Posts: 911	Earthworks QTC1's my friend! These things will really get the job done!

24th March 2004	#6
joeq Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: New York Posts: 9,256	I used a Decca Tree set up for a gospel choir recently and was very pleased with the results. I felt like I could pick out each singer from left to right.

26th March 2004	#7
lefthando Gear addict Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Kits Beach Posts: 377	Recently I used a pair of KM 184's in an ORTF pattern just behind the diretor. Then back in the room I used a spaced pair of Rode NT-2's set to omni; spot mics on soloists and the harp; Millenia preamps and I was very pleased with the results.

27th March 2004	#8
Nathanael Gear maniac Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 151	I'd rent some killer omnis (DPA or Schoeps) and use a jecklin disk if the room is good.

27th March 2004	#10
Han Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Netherlands Posts: 980	Another vote for ORTF with the 184's here, it'll do just fine. You could also try the 184's in NOS (angle 90 deg, diaphragms 30 cm apart) You will have a better stereo image with ORTF and NOS than with XY. Forget about AB placement with KM184's. I always try to record the childrens a number of times and mix all the tracks in order to get a 'bigger' choir. Remember also that working with children is great fun, but you can't work too long with them. The first takes they will be a little shy, then comes the time they get enthusiastic and will perform great. Soon after that they can get overenthusiastic, time to stop the show then!

21st December 2004	#14
Remoteness Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 7,311	XL, how did the session workout?