Bassist Need Help with LIVE SOUND!!!

[gchBASS]

What's up? Yeah I'm the new guy asking a question you've all probably answered 1000 timed before. But I've searched all end of the internet and man... it's is definitely a guitarists world.

My name's Eric. I play bass for a band you may know: Gym Class Heroes. I'm a seasoned player of 11 years but I haven't the slightest clue what to do to maximize my live bass sound. Consider me gear ignorant.

It's frustrating hearing Hip Hop / Rap artists singing to tracks that have such a HUGE bass sound that cuts through every inch of the venue - from 1,500+ clubs to 15,000+ arenas. My bass always sounds friggin' dinky. I play out of an AMPEG SVT4 PRO and BXT Cabs that Vic Wooten and Steve Bailey designed while using Music Man BONGO basses (which have a staggering low end).

I'm very content with the Cabs. They sound AMAZING. Same with the Basses I use - couldnt ask for a more versitile AXE. But I feel there is such a reduction of power and sonic BOOM in between the two. I want to switch to a Gallien-Krueger 2001RB to use as a head for sheer power. When I see other bassist on the road they have a whole rack full of SWEETNESS. We've done gigs with Jo Jo (the 16 yr old pop singer) and she has a wicked live band. I checked out their bassist rig and I didn't recognize a damn thing on it! And his bass sounds BEAUTIFUL!

I don't know what to do, or what to get. I need to create a huge live sound that compares to the tracks I hear comin' from the solo artists. I NEED YOUR HELP! Any replys are appreciated and THANKS FOR YOUR TIME!!!

Eric GCH

[Stefan Luan]

Are you using a good compressor?

[ninjaneer]

maybe try some octave pedals.. might give you some depth.

[Chunky Karma]

I'm assuming you are talking about stage sound and not what is going through the PA where you are at the mercy of the system and sound man? Personally I don't like any of Ampegs newer stuff including the cabinets. Schroeder cabs have a lot of balls and sound good anywhere you stand on stage. Then you need as much power as you can get (at least 600 watts or more unless it's a classic tube amp like an old SVT) to move the kind of air you seem to want. Maybe a Crown with a nice preamp?
Greg

[gchBASS]

I'm not using one. SVTs have a compressor "button". I honestly think it's a little weak. What do you suggest? What about limitiers and gates? Are they necessary?

[gchBASS]

Is it useless to use a pre amp when you have a head that produces major sound? I guess I dont get the technical side of having a pre amp when you have a head.

I think the cabs I use can handle a good amout. the 1x15 handles 300 watts and the 4x10 handles 600 watts - they definitely sound beautiful and its noticable when I play through them compared to an 8 x 10 or SWRs. The only thing I've come across the compares are Mesa Boogie, but I dont think they have the high end I'll need for our funk songs.

[whosyourdaddy00]

first off, you have a nice rig...i've only played a bongo at NAMM, but i fell in love with it's versatility instantly....a compressor will definitely help you out...check out DBX stuff if you want good quality on the cheap...i'm not a fan of ampegs one button compressor.....also run a DI to the PA. and the electronically generated bass in hip-hop isn't gonna sound the same as a bass guitar run through an amp....they are just two different beasts....the hip-hop stuff is more sine wave stuff...whereas your bass is full of harmonics and what not.....

[bishopthomas]

I'm a little confused. On one hand you seem like you're really happy with the sound of your rig, but on the other you don't like it. You are comparing bass rigs to bass rigs, right - not your bass rig to full concert PA's? As far as your rig goes: you might try playing through some different head/cabinet options. I really like the Epifani NYC cabinets (no longer made and have been replaced by the UL series). Eden, Schroeder, Bergantino, etc. are all really nice cabinets as well.

To answer your question about preamps vs. bass heads: A bass head has a preamp section built into it as well as the power amp stage. If you were to buy an external preamp and power amp then you would basically have the same thing, but more options (and for nicer preamps/power amps, more money invested).

If your question is only bass related and you're not trying to compare it to a PA then head over to TalkBass Forums. You'll have plenty of reading to do on different bass rig options.

[Janesaid2me]

Yea its hard to get your real bass to sound like synthesized bass in alot of hip hop albums...but def a better compressor will help ...the one on the ampeg is BLAH...I like that DI idea too...might help if you get the sound guy to both mic your cab and run a DI and blend the two sounds...i do that alot with recording and it helps get a huge bass sound...check out a sansamp or a radial DI boxes...the sansamp is very bass specific...i use one in the studio alot.

[gchBASS]

Thanks for the advice! Are there any "tricks" to having my high notes come through? When I lay on the B string I can definitely feel it go through people chests, but when I climb up my fretboard I swear it all just gets lost. On the other hand, when I hear tracks a high D (my open D) will sound HUGE. Are there any tricks to "level out" the notes so my high D will be as thick and bumpy as it's lower octave (3rd fret on B string)?

I can tell that a compressor is a must. But what about the significance of a Limiter or Gate?

[gchBASS]

Sorry about the confusion.

I just feel as though my higher notes are losing the power they need. A low D rumbles the stage and a high D... well... what high D? I can hardly hear it. Ive tried messing with EQs and mid-ranges to bring it out and it just sounds more "grungy" and not crisp and clean. I'm trying to emulate a hip hop sound where every note makes your chest rattle but is still clean.

I'm not sure what equipment I need to bring my high and low notes out equally. I dig the stuff I have, but I feel it could be greatly improved.

[Stefan Luan]

You don't really need limiter or gate on live bass.What is the most important to me is good comp,eq and DI.I only use my amp as a monitor when i'm playing live(no microphone).Never forget that most of the sound comes out your fingers...IMVHO of course.

[pedrodash]

buy a Manley Voxbox.

[s.d.finley]

Originally Posted by gchBASS

Sorry about the confusion.

I just feel as though my higher notes are losing the power they need. A low D rumbles the stage and a high D... well... what high D? I can hardly hear it. Ive tried messing with EQs and mid-ranges to bring it out and it just sounds more "grungy" and not crisp and clean. I'm trying to emulate a hip hop sound where every note makes your chest rattle but is still clean.

I'm not sure what equipment I need to bring my high and low notes out equally. I dig the stuff I have, but I feel it could be greatly improved.

Sounds like you might need some compression on stage. Have you tried Genz Benz amps?

[TheGetDown]

Im a huge fan of Eden heads, you should check them out, amazing EQs which would help you dial in a midrange sound that cuts through the mix

also check out the sansamp bass preamp, I like what they do.

Also try to work closely with the sound guys!

[De chromium cob]

Originally Posted by gchBASS

Sorry about the confusion.

I just feel as though my higher notes are losing the power they need. A low D rumbles the stage and a high D... well... what high D? I can hardly hear it. Ive tried messing with EQs and mid-ranges to bring it out and it just sounds more "grungy" and not crisp and clean. I'm trying to emulate a hip hop sound where every note makes your chest rattle but is still clean.

I'm not sure what equipment I need to bring my high and low notes out equally. I dig the stuff I have, but I feel it could be greatly improved.

It sounds to me like its a problem with getting a even sound across all 4 strings. That would lead me to believe you need to tweak the positioning (height) of your pickups. Also you might try a thicker gauge string. Compression could also help. A DBX 160XT would help even things out.... Of course, it could be the player....

[Tibbon]

Perhaps a 3 band multiband compressor or so would really help. Then you could try to get the higher notes to still stand out more.

I know you're a good bass player, but I did find when on a session with Tony Levin that a masterful (i mean he is one of the top 10 bassplayers IMHO) bass player can make almost any rig sound good.

Perhaps heavier gauge strings for your higher strings (like slightly heavier, have your tech up the D and G strings by one or two steps) might help them not go poof as much too.

[gchBASS]

Thanks for all the help. I think I can go from here.

[Remoteness]

I also believe it's about tweaking your pickups and adding a compressor to the chain.

Keep us posted on your developments.

All the best!

[matt thomas]

Originally Posted by gchBASS

I'm trying to emulate a hip hop sound where every note makes your chest rattle but is still clean.

.

I would never use a compressor as part of a bass players rig, unless he is a bad player, or wants the sound of the compressor. Compression in a live situation should be up to the sound guy.

For deep clean lows try an Avalon DI, I think its called the U5, it has a really deep clean sound. The bass player from matchbox 20 first recommended me these, he described as sounding kind of like there was an extra harmonic below the fundamental of his bass.

Secondly I wouldn't mic your cabinet, much of the time the phase discrepencies between your DI and cabinet cancel out some frequencies and add to others. Even if the sound guy sorts this out in sound check, the moment someone bumps the mic or jumps on stage you're back to square one. Instead use a sansamp DI, for an analog amp simulation. Do not use a digital simulator like a POD, as this also creates a latency which has the same effect as micing your cabinet.

check the phase between the FOH and your stage sound during sound check, this may screw your sound on stage.

get a good sound guy

Of course eveyones opinion is different, and different strokes for different folks.

narco

[Chunky Karma]

Originally Posted by gchBASS

Sorry about the confusion.

I just feel as though my higher notes are losing the power they need. A low D rumbles the stage and a high D... well... what high D? I can hardly hear it. Ive tried messing with EQs and mid-ranges to bring it out and it just sounds more "grungy" and not crisp and clean. I'm trying to emulate a hip hop sound where every note makes your chest rattle but is still clean.

I'm not sure what equipment I need to bring my high and low notes out equally. I dig the stuff I have, but I feel it could be greatly improved.

Are you expecting "higher notes" to rattle chests as much as lower notes? Also, have you heard a bassist with a rig that does what you are describing? If so what was he/she using? Victor and Steve are fine players but neither one of them sound like synth/hip hop keyboardists .

[MichaelPatrick]

Bass guitar -> good cable -> LaChapell preamp -> SPL Transient Designer or some really good adjustable compressor (like Pendulum)?

I don't know much about compressors and EQs for Bass, but I've heard the LaChapell on Bass and it's simply awesome. Clean, broad and tight, and as fat as you want with the turn of a knob.

[nathanvacha]

not to step on anyone's toes...


but if you can't get a thunderous low end out of an svt-4 on a stack, it's not the amp's fault. I've heard shitty-ass basses tear the stage apart with those amps. in fact, i find we often don't even need p.a. reinforcement with one of those on stage and i'll often pull the fader flat.

[Chunky Karma]

Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick

SPL Transient Designer

For live use? I wouldn't have thunk.

[nandoanalog]

My friend... What you need is a WAL bass... Forget about all that "compressor limiter equalizer maximizer" mumbo jumbo....

You get yourself a WAL.

[De chromium cob]

Originally Posted by narco

I would never use a compressor as part of a bass players rig, unless he is a bad player, or wants the sound of the compressor. Compression in a live situation should be up to the sound guy.

I'll let Tony Levin know he should stop using a compressor (a Retrospec Squeezebox) in his bass rig. Maybe he's just a bad player and has been using that comp as a crutch all these years.....

[nathanvacha]

Originally Posted by De chromium cob

I'll let Tony Levin know he should stop using a compressor (a Retrospec Squeezebox) in his bass rig. Maybe he's just a bad player and has been using that comp as a crutch all these years.....

oh, come on... I know he specified what he wanted, but he asked this question to a bunch of engineers, what type of answers do you think he's gonna get?
Lots of bassists use pedals or a bit of outboard maybe in a rack, but anything serious should be handled by someone who does that for a living.

...but if you need to hear yourself onstage with a compressor, then get one.

[beruang]

hey fellas...

anyone checked the polarity on the speaker cables from amp to the TWO cabs? Perhaps they are not wired the same...that...might....cause.....issues....gaack....

[matt thomas]

Originally Posted by De chromium cob

I'll let Tony Levin know he should stop using a compressor (a Retrospec Squeezebox) in his bass rig. Maybe he's just a bad player and has been using that comp as a crutch all these years.....

perhaps you should read my post again

I would ...

unless he ... wants the sound of the compressor

(remembering that tony has a distinct sound, and the retrospec is an optical valve device..)

Of course eveyones opinion is different, and different strokes for different folks.

I still stand by what I said, I wouldn't recommend compression to fix a bad sound, at least not on the signal that is getting sent to the sound guy. If you want the sound of a compressor that is a different matter. It may be part of a slap players sound for instance (or tony's).

narco

[Remoteness]

I always wanted a Retrospec Squeezebox...

I have two Juiceboxes and I love them on bass.