Using Hi-Fi VCR's for location recording

[The Architecture]

Today I went down to the thrift store that was on the way home. While I was there they had a whole crap load of VCR's of various quality. I picked up a Sony SLV-595HF which is considered very high end for a consumer deck (its more like a VTR than a VCR), comes with a digital VU meter that really handy for making sure your not gonna exceed 0db on the tape.

Anybody here know of others using VCR's as a means of recording music?

[Ryuben]

When I didn't have much equipment to record with - I used a hi-fi JVC VCR along with my then Powermac 7200 running at 90mhz with 84 megs of ram or something ridiculously stupid.

At anyrate, I had enough juice in my mac to record 1 stereo track...then I would "bounce" that over to the VCR and record a live track at the same time.

Uh yeah, I did whatever I could do to keep recording during that time in my life...and that was all I had available to me...

I was actually really surprised at how well that VCR performed. I used as high quality tape I could find.
I've got a G5 and run DP now...hardly ever "watch" a VHS movie...but I still can't get rid of that VCR simply because of how well it performed with audio.

Studio quality recordings? Not at all.
But IMO sounded better than cassette seemed to have more headroom.
Don't know if that is really true or not...but it seemed that way to me.

Give it a shot - I'd like to know what you think from your own experience.

[Kiwiburger]

Yep - Hifi stereo VCR's are somewhere between cassette and CD quality. Main advantage is length of tape (compared to cassettes or filling up a hard disk) and simple, easy to use.

Years ago I did some songs by overdubbing between two VCRs.

A DAT would be much better - and people must be throwing those out now.

Better again, a older PC with good freeware.

[The Architecture]

When I didn't have much equipment to record with - I used a hi-fi JVC VCR along with my then Powermac 7200 running at 90mhz with 84 megs of ram or something ridiculously stupid.

At anyrate, I had enough juice in my mac to record 1 stereo track...then I would "bounce" that over to the VCR and record a live track at the same time.

Uh yeah, I did whatever I could do to keep recording during that time in my life...and that was all I had available to me...

I was actually really surprised at how well that VCR performed. I used as high quality tape I could find.
I've got a G5 and run DP now...hardly ever "watch" a VHS movie...but I still can't get rid of that VCR simply because of how well it performed with audio.

Studio quality recordings? Not at all.
But IMO sounded better than cassette seemed to have more headroom.
Don't know if that is really true or not...but it seemed that way to me.

Give it a shot - I'd like to know what you think from your own experience.[/quote]

hey, I realized your in AZ as well. Cool.

yea, I recorded three tracks today. The first time I did it, it absolutely blew my mind. I had tried to do something like this along time ago, but it was riddled with crackling, basically making it unusable. This time I used a new tape on a high end sony VCR, and my god I was blown away. For the industrial stuff that I do, it gave it an edge that I never got on my DAW system at all. Id almost say I really like the edge that VHS adds to all of my work, yet at times it can sound very transparent for the stuff I record as well (my Korg EMX-1 mainly).

I only experienced one drop out when I recorded the second track, but it dissapeared when I played it again. I never expected performance like this from VHS ever, this good anyways.
if only I had used VHS when I first went hardware , I used a JVC stereo tape deck, what a muddy filthy mess. With 4 track, it seems like I can never get a good signal, I either get it too distorted or too quiet, and I don't use noise reduction anymore since it kills the highs (I use a Tascam 424MkII).

what can I say, I love lo-fi music more than hi-fi. Its more interesting to me.

[bcgood]

Originally Posted by The Architecture

what can I say, I love lo-fi music more than hi-fi. Its more interesting to me.

I hear ya man, good taste!

I love using my JVC SVHS with Professional Maxell SVHS tape. Here is a sample of dance stuff recorded from my SVHS into my soundcard. Sounds pretty good to me...

bcgood

[Gilliland]

Originally Posted by The Architecture

Anybody here know of others using VCR's as a means of recording music?

Man, you reminded me of the old days, long before I got serious about recording. Somewhere around here, I have an old HiFi Betamax tape of a very early Alison Krauss and Union Station concert. I should try to dig that up and see if it will still play. She was 16 years old at the time.

[minus-sounds.com]

I remember that 15 years ago in London, mastering houses could accept a HiFi VHS tape as a master from a project studio.
At the time I was using a portable Sony DAT. I was slutty. Now they are dirt cheap. lol

[warhead]

I was doing this with my second home studio attempt in the 90's, you have to beware of COMPRESSION which cannot be disabled...at least I could not disable it back then! If you hit it hot at all, you can experience the sheer loveliness of pumping VCR compression and limiting...kidding...it wasn't lovely at all.

The sound, if I did not hit the threshold was far superior to cassette. I ended up on Minidisc for a while after that, and the VCR had a better depth and image to it...!

War

[The Architecture]

For some reason, that built in compression really brings out alot of need omph in some of my recordings. I got a deck that allows me to monitor how much im sending to it, which is really nice, so I can control just how much I send.

this is the one I got

[Jimsmack]

I used to use a Sony Hi-Fi VCR to print mixes to. It actually had seperate inputs and input level control for the audio. Signal to noise ratio and dynamic range well beyond cassette and close to CD. Built like a tank. Weighs about 10x what new VCRs weigh.

[Ryuben]

Originally Posted by The Architecture

...I never expected performance like this from VHS ever, this good anyways.

if only I had used VHS when I first went hardware...

That pretty much sums up my experience with using a hi-fi VCR for audio!

When I first started out, I was on a 4 track...then had this Sansui 6 track cassette deck (loved that thing!)...did all my mix downs to stereo cassette. Would have been nice to drop them into the VCR instead.

I just didn't know VHS was better...until it was my only option for recording anything beyond one stereo track.

[The Architecture]

well today Im recording my band, so this will be the real test to see how it performs. I'll be using my Tascam 424 as a backup recorder and a mixer to hook everything up (my other mixer is an evil Behringer MX602A).

Mic's I'll be using:

Behringer ECM8000 for hihats
optimus dynamic pos
MXL v69M

Im still very new to the whole idea of capturing recordings on microphones, as I have been more of a electronic music artist most of my recording career (gotta love hooking up all of those modules!), which explains my lacking in decent microphones (I can't justify a Neuman or a decent ribbon microphone just yet).

[warhead]

I did luck out and find one with meters at the time though, which was a real standout feature and helped me avoid crazy amounts of that compression. Can't remember if it was Sony or maybe a JVC.

War

[warhead]

Originally Posted by minus-sounds.com

I remember that 15 years ago in London, mastering houses could accept a HiFi VHS tape as a master from a project studio.

What peak levels did they recommend mixing at?

War

[analogbass]

Sound quality is excellent, closer to CD or DAT than cassette. In fact DATs are just miniturized VCRs so obviously you can't lose. I've used a stereo VCR to tape long segments of radio and net music; it's been brutally effective at time-shifting and getting virtually the same quality as the original signal.

Even running it at the slowest speed doesn't seem to detract much at all from sound, so you can tape 8 hours on a 160. Or set the VCR timer to start at a certain time.

[The Architecture]

SoundClick song info: C4 by Better Than - A fusion of Indie and everything else.

This is a live recording that we did last night.

Equipment used.

(warning, behringer equipment used in parts )
one Behringer ECM 8000 for micing hi hats and snare
powered by a Behringer MX602A (for those needing to throw up, puke to the left) , then sent it to my Tascam 424 .
one optimus Dynamic mic for bass drum, ran into my Tascam 424
one MXL V69M, placed on a snare holder since I did not have an extra mic stand for micing a VOX amp. , ran straight to my Tascam 424 xlr input without any phantom power, as it had enough to drive it already.
took the input from my Tascam 424, and sent it to my Sony SLV 595HF.

Very shoddy conditions if you ask me, but I made it work.

recorded in a 10x30 room with expoxy coded floor if I remember right. Im glad I got the drums to sound half way decent. This was my first time micing a guitar with a microphone, and I did it about 9 inches away from it facing somewhat the front of the mic.

I bought a Yamaha MG16/6fx today, since my GC didn't carry the 16/4 that I wanted originally, but I got 10 percent off it, so I opted for it.

[LX3]

This is funny. Before the days of affordable digital recording, even before DAT was around, I used to make cheap location recordings on four track... using a Sony PCM701 processor (the "rack" version of the PCM-F1) with a Sony HF100 Hi-Fi video recorder.

This would have been around 1984. Crumbs.

So the "video" part of the system would record two tracks of 16-bit 44.1kHz with which I captured the stereo output of the desk, and then I could use the two hi-fi audio tracks, to record room sound from a pair of mics via a Symetrix SX202 preamp.

Then when I got it home, I'd add EQ as necessary and mix the two stereo tracks to 1/4". It worked great.

I would never have mastered to the Hi-Fi tracks... but then I had the PCM701. Once people knew I had one, they'd insist that I brought it to every session I did, to use as a mastering machine. At least until DAT came along.

Paul