Worst gig ever. Lessons learned many. [long]

[paulhurt]

I learned some harsh lessons at a gig last night. Hopefully some of you can benefit from my mistakes and misfortune. It's a fairly long sob story, so I'll try and stick to the highlights.

I was booked to record a small gig. I say booked, actually I was doing it as a freebie for a friend who was in the band. The whole gig was for charity anyway, and there was a chance of doing a CD of the gig as well, where I'd be paid (mates rates) to mix down the recording. A chance to network and meet a few new people. And it's good karma to occasionally do a mate a favour. Or so I thought.

I asked my friends within the band to make sure that the PA crew knew I was coming, and that they would need to work with me a bit.

The night before, I made a few calls. I was told that everything was in place, and the whole band were really excited about the recording.

I arrived at the gig at the same time as the PA guys, three-and-a-half hours before showtime (as I say, this was a really small gig). It turned out that the band had hired a tinpot PA rig, run by a couple of aging seventies rock rejects who looked more accustomed to doing discos at kids birthday parties. The whole thing was being run from an 8-channel mixer amp - you know, the kind that looks more like a guitar amp head. However, I thought, if anything that makes my job easier - I just split the eight lines to their "desk" and then mic up whatever else I want just for the recording.

However, the PA guys became increasingly obstructive and uncooperative. Whenever I attempted to talk to them about integrating my splitter, they'd reply "Tell you what, let's get our system all working, do the soundcheck, then we'll look at it." To me, that's code for "Hang around for an hour or two, we'll do a soundcheck, then we'll tell you it's too late to change anything".

I tried my best to work around them and stay friendly. I busied myself by micing up the drums (they were only planning on taking kick and snare, so I left those so that they could use their own mics).

It finally (and I suppose inevitably) kicked off when one of the PA guys came to mic up the kick and snare. He dug around in his bag and pulled out a battered StageLine (?) dynamic for bass drum, and an old seventies-era silver Shure Unidyne thing for snare. You know, the one with an on-off switch. They used to cost about 30 quid in the average household goods catalog 25 years ago. Oh. My. God.

I grabbed a pristine Beta 52 and SM57 from my case and politely suggested that he might like to try these. "We'd rather just use our own mics". I mentioned that these were really cool mics, he'd like them. "Tell you what," he goes, "we'll start with ours, then once the soundcheck's done, we'll look at trying yours out".

Deja vu. "But then surely we'd have to soundcheck twice," I pointed out, "once with your mics, and then again with mine?" I again alluded to how great mics these were, and that for the sake of the band's recording, it'd be really nice to use them (without making any comment about his mics).

He flipped. "Oh, do whatever you like, I don't know what's going on. How are we supposed to connect to your mics anyway?" and he threw his hands up in the air and stomped off across the stage.

What happened next was the unexpected bit. Some other guy wandered up to the stage. I hadn't met this other guy before, he didn't appear to be anything to do with the band, he hadn't said hello to me before... who was he? It later transpired that he was the band's guitarist. It also transpired that he actually was the person that "ran" the band.

"There seems to be a bit of tension here" he goes, "and we can't have that". I smiled and assured him that there wasn't a problem. The PA guy carries on freaking out a bit. "No, I'm not happy" the third party continues, "this isn't going to work". I'm dumbfounded. The PA guy suddenly realises where this is going, and starts to backpedal. "It's okay, it's not a problem" he says.

But it's too late. The room goes quiet. The rest of the band don't know where to look. "No, I don't think this is going to work, this is our night and I don't want any tension spoiling it."

"So, would you rather I just left?" I say.

"Yes".

I tore down what mics I'd set, packed the rest of my rig, and loaded the car. Other members of the band came and apologised - I think everyone was a bit shocked. They asked if I wanted to stay and see the gig! You're kidding, right?

So, there went a week's planning and preparation. Four hours packing and driving to the gig, two hours at the gig setting up, half an hour tearing down again, and a two hour drive home and unload. Probably 20 quid in petrol. A wasted Saturday night out that I could have spent actually having fun somewhere.

It was just about the most humiliating experience of my adult life.

I made a bunch of mistakes on this gig, so although I'm whinging about the PA crew, I still blame myself. I broke my own rules. Lessons learned, issues raised:

* It's been said many a time, but this incident proved the point again. Make sure you really know who's in charge and get them on your side. In advance.

* When liasing in advance of the date, never leave it to third parties to talk to other technicians on your behalf. Speak to them yourself. Others will forget, or say the wrong thing, or misinterpret what's said to them.

* Even when it's the most basic of gigs such as this (this was in a church hall), do all the usual prep and more. Don't expect it to be a breeze because it's such a simple gig (or because it's for friends of yours). In fact, it may well turn out to be tougher, because no matter how experienced or professional you are, you are more likely to find yourself working with inexperienced third parties on a small gig. That doesn't mean that they'll bow to your greater experience though. More likely the reverse - people get defensive very quickly, especially those starting from a weak position (e.g. PA guys with crap gear).

* As soon as you detect a battle of wills developing, it's possibly better to bail out before you're pushed out. At least then you can leave with your dignity intact. If people you're supposed to be working with get obstructive to the point of preventing you getting the job done, down tools and bring it up with the "person in charge". If things don't improve - WALK! I elected to push on, because I didn't want to let my friends down. In the end I badly damaged my own reputation. Never again.

* I got my rig in so fast, I then helped carry most of the PA rig into the venue! I thought it was nice to be nice, but with hindsight I think I did myself a disservice - by doing that I established a power hierarchy where I was their slave. This gave them license to push me around later on.

* I partly think I was stepped all over because people thought I was a "hobby recordist" or something. What can you do to exude more of an air of professionalism? Ideas:

- Avoid doing gigs alone. Try to have a "crew", even if it's just two of you. Only a pro could afford to employ assistants, surely. Plus, in a battle of wills, there's strength in numbers! ;-)

- Show up in a van, not a car

- Never run from A to B, no matter how pressed for time you are - it looks like you're panicking rather than being efficient, and can make people nervous.

- And perhaps, don't be too nice to people! (some of the most respected engineers I've know are also the most egotistical arseholes I've met. It doesn't seem right, but maybe there's a connection there...)

* It's so true. NEVER ARGUE WITH AN IDIOT. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with their experience.


I hope some of you can benefit from my little tale of woe. Any comments, suggestions? The learning curve stretches ever onward, for me at least.

Thanks for reading

Paul Hurt
LX3 Live Recording, London

[blackcatdigi]

Sorry to hear about your experience.

I think you've assesed the situation pretty well, yourself.

Not to be overly pessimistic or negative, but your post proves (yet again), that "No good deed goes unpunished."

The main point you've proven is: Had you been charging for your services, things would have gone differently.

The 'guy in charge' (who made the call to dismiss you), placed little to no value on your services: Because there was no charge, there was no perceived value.

Also, by being nice and helpful, you actually undermined your professionalism and appeared subservient. BTW, I'm a nice guy too, but don't schlep gear for ANYBODY. Not my gig. I may hold the door open for someone following my entrance, but that is the extent of it.

IMHO, I don't think you need to be an asshole, but (I agree) that by being super nice and helping those guys out, you knocked yourself on down the foodchain.

OTOH, your karma should be in pretty good shape.

Personally, I would've hung around to see how the gig went. I also probably would've 'guilted' my buds in the band into at least covering my bar tab, while subtley reclaiming my good 'rep'...

"...No problem Man, I'll have another Ledaig while you're up..."

[hollywood_steve]

Hey Paul, sorry to hear about the nightmare gig. The only comment I want to make concerns the concept of a Professional Image and "free" gigs. Although I understand what blackcatdigital was trying to get across concerning free gigs and lack of perceived value.

My experience has been counter to this. If there is a gig that I consider to be valuable for reasons other than my fee (experience, contacts, good will, whatever), if a client is unable to pay my standard (not inexepensive) rates, I am much more likely to consider doing the gig for free than even think about discounting my rates.

Rate cutting is a much worse for your reputation than offering to take part in a charity benefit or any other type of freebie. I have gotten some of my best jobs from contacts made at benefits and other types of free gigs. But folks who are rate shopping and choose your studio because your are a dollar cheaper than some other guy, they will never be anything other than a royal pain in the ass.

Good luck on your next gig!

[blackcatdigi]

Originally posted by hollywood_steve

Rate cutting is a much worse for your reputation than offering to take part in a charity benefit or any other type of freebie. I have gotten some of my best jobs from contacts made at benefits and other types of free gigs. But folks who are rate shopping and choose your studio because your are a dollar cheaper than some other guy, they will never be anything other than a royal pain in the ass.

I agree 100%, Steve. Charity is good, reducing rates is BAD.

[paulhurt]

Thanks both of you for your advice - it's been really helpful.

Yes, I consider myself to be past the "doing gigs for free" stage now, and I see the risks, but this one had too many good things going for it - I was helping out a mate, there was the strong possibility of a week's mixing work at the end, and it would score me points and put me on the radar with some very useful people. So it seemed worth it.

Thanks to the PA crew's attitude, my rep with the people I hoped to impress has been totally trashed.

The problem really stemmed from my not completely nailing things down with the band and the "crew" beforehand. Though another thought occurred to me (as I endlessly play the events back in my mind - I think I've been psychologically scarred :-) ... if you ran the band, and someone had offered to record your gig for nothing, and you hadn't met them... wouldn't you at least greet the recording engineer when they arrived at the venue? (I couldn't greet *him* - who was that guy hanging about the hall in the coat and glassses?). Very strange. I should have smelled a rat much earlier on.

Point taken about "negotiable rates". I am very reluctant to cut my rates, as I don't think I'm expensive to start with. Though people will always compare your rates to those of recording studios (many of which are unrealistically and unsustainably low in the UK). I just say "Well, get them to bring their recording studio to your gig instead!".

Is no-one going to mention the "never try and change the PA rig mics for your own" rule? :-|

Paul

[jbuntz]

Put about any musician in front of a PA and they automatically know more than anybody about it. Sound people don't like being told what to do or what mics to use. It's like telling a recording engineer their business. A band member of mine told the soundmember to turn on the reverb on vocals and effectively shut off the reverb along with all the instrument and vocals and left the monitors on so we didn't know.

[Fred]

My take on Paul's situation is different than the above replies. I do not disagree with much of what has been said here regarding what rates to charge and when to charge them (or not). But to me that is a side issue.

By my perspective comes for many years on the road as a touring tech, stage manager, and production manager. Since we are discussing the recording of a live performance in front of an audience, my take on Paul's experience is based on how I view live performances. Studio or remote sessions without an audience is a completely different conversation and what I am about to say does not apply to those situations.

IMO, as a non-performing individual involved in a live concert production, it is your responsibility to do whatever you have to do to not **** with the "vibe" of the day. Everyone at that event is there to either experience the performance of the musician(s) or to help make it all happen. As a member of the production, it is your responsibility to help the musician deliever the best possible performance to each and every member of the audience. This means helping the musicians play to the best of their ability by providing technical and emotional support. That means trying to pull the event off with the least amount of friction and stress. Production crew members should (ideally, IMO) blend into the back ground and IMO the more professionally they do their jobs, the better they are a not being noticed while they are doing it.

The PA crew has a simple priority, get the show "on the air" and try to make sure that nothing screws up once it starts. The guy mixing FOH has the priority of presenting the best sonic presentation of what is happening on stage to every single paying member of the audience. You as the recording guy have the responsibility of capturing everything that happens on that stage without having any effect on what is happening on that stage.

If anyone in the production causes the stress level to go up, or pisses off a musicain (directly or indirectly) and has a negative effect on the performance on the stage, then IMO, there is a problem with that crew person. As production people we are there for one reason and one reason only, to help the musician perform to the best of their ability and to deliever that performance to as many people with the highest quality that we can. Period.

My personal approach to Paul's situation would have been somewhat similar to what he did, but I would have done it sooner than he did. Because there was obviously a lack of time to properly pull off the recording due to a number of reasons, I would have backed off and simply not done the recording. Instead pressing forward when it was too late to change the way it was all going, I would have faded into the background to allow the performance to on uneffected by my attitude. And I would not have left the gig when the recording was scrapped. I would have stayed and watched the whole thing from a vantage point that let me see what roll everyone played from each musician down to the PA guys. And I would have stayed around to help them all load-out at the end of the night. Not to make points, but to learn about them and to see where I could help make it all happen the next time (including the recording).

I am sorry if I sound as though I'm not sensitive to Paul's situation or his feelings. I am. I've been in similar situations before myself and I've learned a lot from them. But I think it is important to remember the priorities of such events and to keep things in perspective.

BTW, I think the guitar player/band leader played his roll perfectly. It sounds like he stayed out of the way, watched what was going on, and then stepped in when he felt the gig was going to be effected in a negative way. The Paul backed down because he saw that the musicans were being drawn into the fray, (as did PA guy) is a good thing IMO. It indicates that Paul felt intuitively what was important and acted upon what he felt by trying to calm the situation down. So did the PA guy once he got out of reaction mode.

So Paul, for what it is worth, my advice is this. Don't let such experiences jade you or stop you from offering your services regardless of what your are charging for them. Learn from these experiences what you can do to help prevent them from happening the next time. Recognize that concerts don't happen because we are remote recording guys. We are remote recording guys because concerts happen. We are ALL there for the musicians and their performance. Figure out what you can to do to have a positive effect on the event. I think you've got the heart to do it. Don't let your ego get in the way. Sometimes that means backing down, sometimes it means standing your ground, and sometimes it means not doing the gig. But NEVER **** with the vibe of the day. It's your responsibility to figure out how you can do that and still get your job done with the level of quality that is acceptable to you.

It's all about professionalism. What you charge or don't charge has NOTHING to do with that, IMO.

Sorry if this has sounded like a rant, It wasn't meant that way. But production crew dynamics are very important to me.

Hang in there Paul. Learn from the mistakes (yours and others) that you see, and don't let them effect your attitude. Figure out how you can do your job and have only a positive effect on the entire production. You'll have a LOT more fun, get more gigs, and get to hear and record a bunch of music. How much can that suck?

Cheers,
Fred Forssell
Forssell Technologies

[Ruphus]

I think your perspective is right, Paul.

The common mentality hasn´t experienced too much of the benefits of social behaviour.
Individuals left alone to themselves, majority developed hirachy perceptions where kindness is mixed up with discount offer of weakness or suspected as mean strategy and coldness in the opposite perceived as strength.
Much like it is with dogs. What appears like authority will be obeyed, what doesn´t look like district defence will be stepped on.

When you hold on to ideals according to which humans are no dogs, you cannot prevent events like the one you described and in despite of religious sayings your goodwill will NOT all come back to you. In the opposite you will be seeing AHs around you gain a lot of success in society while what remains to you might merely be a trying-to-be-decent type in the mirror and a handful of real friends.

I don´t know though whether it pays to be decent, except for the moment when you gotta say good bye, knowing a couple spirits will really care - which could be counting most then.
In the time before that however one will rather have to struggle much more than darvinistic types.
If you can be more of a short thinking specimen maybe you should try that somewhat, unless you liked to invest double for the same dime.

Two years ago or so we had a major production rap piece here on the radio saying "It feels great to be an asshole".

That´s the culture recipe.

Greets,

Ruphus

[paulhurt]

Hi all again

Fred, I agree with much of what you say (though had I stayed I'm not sure I would have helped the PA guys carry their gear out after they'd deliberately got me blown me off the gig! Would they have helped me carry my gear?!)

Getting the job done in a hassle-free manner is always my aim. No one enjoys arguments, me included. That's partly why we all spend so long thinking about splitters and cabling options and the like, so we're prepared for any eventuality and can fit in transparently into almost any setup we encounter, and no-one gets stressed.

If I'm working with other techs I'll always do whatever I can to get along with them, and fit in with their working practices. My view in this situation is that you both show up to the gig and become a production team, and I enjoy that teamwork aspect immensely. But it cuts both ways - the other party needs to respect that I have a job to do as well. I understand that without the live sound there is no gig. But at the same time they should understand that I haven't just come along for a nice day out... maybe record a band, but if you'd rather I didn't I won't, I'll just stand around and watch you guys at work, help you carry your gear, etc, etc.

Personally, I don't think I did anything all that outrageous - I was polite to the last, I never interfered with their gear. I only *suggested* that we try a couple of different mics (not normally my policy, but they really did reach for the worst mics I've ever seen on a gig). At which point it was *the PA crew* that went bananas. Who was raising the stress level here? Me?

I've worked with a lot of studio and live engineers in the last twenty years or so. When you consider the whole gamut of big egos and bad attitudes out there, I've found that PA engineers especially (not all of course, just a minority) can really test the limits of that particular scale (along with a few producers I know, but that's a different topic).

Adopting too subservient a position, as blackCat so succinctly put it "knocks you down the foodchain" and if you run into someone that wants to take advantage of that, they will. This is the reality of the job, and if we always backed off as soon as there was the slightest issue, you'd come back with nothing from an awful lot of recording dates!

My big mistake on the night, as you rightly say, was not bailing earlier. I think I got a bit fixated on the job I had to do, and by god I was going to get it done, in spite of the jerks running the PA. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Better still would have been to establish that there was going to be a problem before I left home. Then I needn't have gone at all. Once you've shifted umpteen flightcases of very expensive gear into the venue, you tend to want to see the job thru. It's a lot easier to bail out before you even pack the car!

Paul

PS Ruphus, I think I know what you're getting at. Yes, it's a complicated old business this whole human-to-human behavioural stuff. As recent events serve to remind me, it's an area that's all too easy to neglect in favour of the intricacies of mics, A to D's, jitter and DAW plug-ins! Let's face it, which has more bearing on the success of your business?

[Gerax]

Originally posted by Fred:

The PA crew has a simple priority, get the show "on the air" and try to make sure that nothing screws up once it starts. The guy mixing FOH has the priority of presenting the best sonic presentation of what is happening on stage to every single paying member of the audience. You as the recording guy have the responsibility of capturing everything that happens on that stage without having any effect on what is happening on that stage.

I agree with this, but I also think that whatever task you are supposed to accomplish you have to be respectful and aware that you are not the only guy doing his job there...everybody should try to at least allow others to do their thing and not be too ego boosted or self protective.
In a job where relationships count as much as gear and technology I firmly belive that if you want to be called a "pro" you have to learn how real pros behave and get along.
With this I mean that yes, the live gig could be the most important event of the night, and we are all there to make it happen in the best way possible, but I'll never allow anybody (particulary if he/she is an improvised jerk who labels himself an "engineer", and BTW these are most always insecure that tend to blow up and raise the stress level, when somebody is at an obvious loss it's easier to get aggressive than recognize to be wrong, I hope you know what I mean) to be unrespectful to me and my work; at whatever level you are doing this and whatever rate you charge you have to deliver 100% pro attitude: if this means standing your ground then be it, if this means understanding that there really aren't the conditions to have the job done then bail out, if this means getting along with somebody who's less experienced but polite and willing to cooperate then be it, but never allow somebody to be rude.
I've worked (and stil do) with both sides of the party, and had my fair share of similar events; one thing that clearly sticks out is, real "pros", the ones I learned the most from, almost never freak out, but keep a relaxed attitude, because they've already been there, and know how to handle it; real pros don't get down to an ego fight level, they raise you to their level.
And please, enough with this "I'm the rock star so don't mess with me" attitude too many musicians have ...we need them as much as they need us to get the tech stuff done, or have you ever seen a drummer tweak the EQ on a Kick drum lately ?
I found that blinding them with science doesn't help in the long run, but demonstrating them than if they let you do your thing they will benefit in the end will make them respect you and trust you.

Paul, if their mics were so junky maybe the solution could've been to set up yours side by side to theirs and be set, nobody gets hurt that way, that's the only "mistake" I can think of.
In the end my simpathy goes to you as I really know what it means to be in such a situation.

Cheers

L.G.

[paulhurt]

Paul, if their mics were so junky maybe the solution could've been to set up yours side by side to theirs and be set, nobody gets hurt that way, that's the only "mistake" I can think of.


The thought did cross my mind, but there wasn't really space to position two mics on both kick & snare. Or floor space for that many mic stands.

The drummer was concerned about hitting my tiny Beta 98s on the toms. I don't know what he'd have thought if he'd found two full-size mics on his snare

[paulhurt]

Out of interest, do any of you have a clause in your contract or letter of intent designed to cover this kind of situation?

That is to say, if, despite having taken every possible precaution prior to the date, you're unable to record due to factors outside your control (e.g. PA engineers being totally uncooperative) you are compensated at least in part for your time/effort/travel.

[Gerax]

Well

I usually ask for a fraction of the rate in advance, just to be sure that no matter what, I'll get paid for the day of the gig at least.

L.G.

[Jay Kahrs]

Originally posted by paulhurt
My big mistake on the night, as you rightly say, was not bailing earlier. I think I got a bit fixated on the job I had to do, and by god I was going to get it done, in spite of the jerks running the PA. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Better still would have been to establish that there was going to be a problem before I left home. Then I needn't have gone at all. Once you've shifted umpteen flightcases of very expensive gear into the venue, you tend to want to see the job thru. It's a lot easier to bail out before you even pack the car!

Damn right. I do a lot of FOH and if I do a gig that's outside of my normal club I always advance it. I find out where the entrances are, parking, what gear makes up the PA, how big the room is, what mics and outboard are and aren't there, do I need to bring XLR cables etc.

A little preproduction and contact with the people who were doing sound at the gig could've saved you a lot of headaches that night.

[John Hedger]

In my opinion Paul, you did nothing unprofessional at all. These sound guys were obviously, tired, jaded and resentful of your presence!! Are you sure they were aware that you were coming and that the band wanted the gig to be recorded? It doesn't sound like even the band appreciated your help! To me, those sound guys were the unprofessional ones.
I am a musician and to me, the most professional soundmen are the ones who remain cool, smiling, and helpful at every turn of the way. Some sound jerks are so jaded and arrogant...Those types should stay at home in front of the TV!!
When I encounter burn-out soundmen at an event, I just try to stay out of their way, ignore them, and set up my amp and guitar quietly, play my performance as professionally as I can, and tolerate the gig with bad sound. It makes me really appreciate the ones who are the true pros...The ones who are truly interested in getting the sound right...who ask me my opinion and perspective, and those who give me the same respect as a musician and a person as they would give to Eric Clapton.
Obviously those guys gave you zero respect...forget em! And forget that band...They obviously lost out on a potentially great recording...A shame and a sin!!

John Hedger

[NYC Drew]

Good points all around.

I'm currently touring the far east till May 4th (Japan Korea Malaysia?) as tour director / FOH engineer.

My take is: every show can be different.

Sometimes I can't afford to be "nice" to the musicians, because I only have 1hr to load in, and the promoter's down my neck about getting the show up in that hour...and the venue's already packed.


Yes, know who "the client" is. Sometimes, you're getting paid by the band, but the video director or the production manager or the event sponsor is the client.

Always get as much intel as possible before the gig. Know who "the client" is. If the gig does not have a PRODUCTION/STAGE MANAGER be wary.

Whenever I get a call to be anything BENEATH the PM (ie, stage manager, house engineer, artist liason, stage tech, monitor engineer, system engineer) I always ask who the PM is.

If I'm asked to be the PM, I (obviously) need to see each and every ****ing contract for all parties involved, including -

Aritste contract(s)
venue contract
Hospitality / security contracts
Hotel, airline and ground transport confirmations
Sound, stage, lights, generator agreements
sponsors role

I also want to double check the posters & flyers to make sure everybody is on the same page about who's on the show, when it starts, and where the ****ing show's gonna be! (it's happened!!!)

If a promoter can't give me these things, I'm not the guy for his gig. No sense in me getting blindsided or bushwacked.

Admittedly, you were not operating on this level, but, as you found out, no gig is too small to get ****ed up. In fact, the smaller the gig, the more likely the potential for a screwup.

You handled yourself well, considering. I take fault with the fact that you were trying to superimpose your mics and shit on the sound guy. You should have flowed with it.

I always tell my crew, especially when we roll to the Caribbean and Africa....don't stress stuff too much. A 1/2 decent promoter will get a PA that will do the job to the level of what the people are accustomed to. No need to have kittens about the fact that the console is only 12 or 24 tracks, and you need 48.

My job (sometimes) is to make it work, rain, shine, or in some extreme cases, lack of "juice".

NYC Drew

here's a pic from my current (easy) gig...
The Blue Note Nagoya, from FOH position.

[NYC Drew]

...

[elninojesus]

Originally posted by jbuntz
A band member of mine told the soundmember to turn on the reverb on vocals and effectively shut off the reverb along with all the instrument and vocals and left the monitors on so we didn't know.

Actually Jason, I told him to turn the reverb off. He was already pissed at us for being late and he soaked the vocals and drums.


Mark