Preamp recommendations for acoustic instruments

koriifuraa · 12th June 2007, 03:13 AM

hi,

what 2 ch. preamp would you guys recommend for quiet acoustic recordings? i tend to record a lot of finger picked steel string/classical acoustic guitas, piano, vibraphone, glockenspiel, hammered dulcimer etc. i mainly use a neumann U87 and AKG 414ULS mics.
i currently have a 737, so i'm looking for something with a different quality.
(i know the 737 has been trashed extensively on Gearslutz : ) )
I know the pacifica has been talked up a lot on this forum. would this be a good choice for my needs?

thanks in advance for your advice!

korii

Rick Sutton · 12th June 2007, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koriifuraa

I know the pacifica has been talked up a lot on this forum. would this be a good choice for my needs?

Yes, an excellent choice. I use one for the instruments you mention and it is a joy. I also like API and Tab Funkenwerk v72's for acoustic instruments.

rcm · 12th June 2007, 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koriifuraa

I know the pacifica has been talked up a lot on this forum. would this be a good choice for my needs?
i

I am certainly a big fan of mine. I just recorded a nylon string guitar instrumental album and every track was done through my Pacificas (including using the DI for the synths and bass. I have also used my Pacifica to record early music instruments and heavy metal bands. In the A Designs line, the MP2 is a very serious contender.

That said, any great pre amp will be pretty great on acoustic instruments. They all bring a certain character to the track (all of them, even the ones that claim to be clean). The pres that I tend to like most seem to have transformers in them. Its seems to bring out a little extra detail and texture in the sound that I really like. This would also be a nice contrast to your Avalon.

A Designs, API, Great River, Tubetech...... All wonderful for acoustic stuff. Depends on what your tastes are

koriifuraa · 12th June 2007, 04:27 AM

thanks for your input guys! i really appreciate it!

-koriii

swankdoc · 12th June 2007, 06:06 AM

Manley dual pre comes to mind.

ISedlacek · 12th June 2007, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koriifuraa

hi,

what 2 ch. preamp would you guys recommend for quiet acoustic recordings? i tend to record a lot of finger picked steel string/classical acoustic guitas, piano, vibraphone, glockenspiel, hammered dulcimer etc. i mainly use a neumann U87 and AKG 414ULS mics.
i currently have a 737, so i'm looking for something with a different quality.
(i know the 737 has been trashed extensively on Gearslutz : ) )
I know the pacifica has been talked up a lot on this forum. would this be a good choice for my needs?

thanks in advance for your advice!

korii

Based on my practical experience, I don´t think Pacifica would be very good choice for recording acoustic instruments (if you want to preserve their natural sound, details and depth). It tends to sounds a bit 2D, with hyped highs and scooped mids (which may be useful elsewhere).
If you like, HERE
are samples of one instrument (monochord) recorded on various preamps (including Pacifica). Quite a difference it makes
Comparison with other preamps can be found HERE

In the course of time, I did quite an extensive and intensive search for a great preamp for recording acoustic instruments, using and testing many of the renowned preamps (DACS, Millennia, Crookwood, DAV, Flamingo, Fearn, Pacifica, Fetcode etc.). None of these came close to my ultimate discovery - the new solid state Fred Forssell´s preamp. This is simply the best preamp I ever tried and heard and is simply ideal for recording any acoustic instruments (or anything) - preserving all the details, depth and clarity, without any harshness and still very musical, big and 3D sounding ... A clean, beautiful window to the reality ... Yet completely different sound class than for example Millennia HV-3 which to my ears sounds a bit hard and harsh in comparison. (few days ago, I was recording a pop acoustic guitar using Forssell preamp and both singer and producer were quite excited about the sound, although it is not what I normally record here ...). Also dead quiet with +70dB gain.
Just my personal experience ...

klaukholm · 12th June 2007, 06:36 AM

Millennia HV3 series and Grace Design are fairly common in classical applications and are likely to be found at most scoring stages.

Watersound · 12th June 2007, 07:14 AM

I'll second the Manley Dual Pre- it is way underrated around here.

GYang · 12th June 2007, 08:44 AM

If you look for clean, very realistic in nice way and with touch of very special class among many great options as DAV, Millenia, Martech, EAR etc., I can warmly recommend my absolute favorite clean type mic pre Gordon (there is 2 ch version, too).
Absolute noiseless, with suberb realistic picture of complex acoustic instruments as pianos, brass or strings.
I must admit I don't use it all time as for rock or pop it might be just too true to original.
If you try Brauner VM1-KHE to Gordon in good monitoring room you'll feel that there is nothing between source and your ears.

tcause · 12th June 2007, 12:05 PM

Millennia, Grace.... but also Cranesong Flamingo is hugely versatile. Incredibly transparent and musical in the non iron, non FAT position... but can be juiced up with these options. You may find that the Iron switch goes on a lot more than not :)

A pair of STT-1s is always an attractive option... lots of bases covered here without getting into coloured territory.

Rogervandeberg · 12th June 2007, 12:11 PM

For acoustic guitar i just love the 610 (especialy the brighter voiced 610 in the la-610). it just does something to acoustics which i like very much: sprakle, gushy, great.

If you want clean/transparent, the millennia td1 comes to mind!

Petimar · 12th June 2007, 05:37 PM

John Hardy pres.

May I suggest you also try some quality ribbon mics with the AEA TRP.

gsqd · 12th June 2007, 05:49 PM

1st thing that comes to mind when we talk about clean pres with tons of gain is the Apogee Trak2. I have a rack of 'em and they are wonderful. 90db of gain and as quiet as a quiet thing!

If you want more character the A-Designs stuff is brilliant and very good value for money. The Aphex 1100 is another fabulous, little raved about, pre with great options and a stunning solid but erring on neutral sound. Grace and Millenia are also very good but almost too neutral for my taste.

I'm sure there are plenty of others but there are the only ones I've used in anger.

HTH,

GM

billgennaro · 12th June 2007, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petimar

John Hardy pres.

May I suggest you also try some quality ribbon mics with the AEA TRP.

+1 to both of these. the trp is also good with mics other than ribbons. i record 6 string, 12 string, mandolin, octave mandolin, tenor guitar, resonators, flamenco guitar, etc. the trp sounds nice with all of them (as will the hardy pre). the trp is only about $900 for two channels. best deal for the money. i'd look into ivo's recommendation for the new fred forrsell (though i don't know how much it goes for). of course, these recommendations are assuming you want a natural, uncolored sound.

bill

squeegybug · 13th June 2007, 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koriifuraa

what 2 ch. preamp would you guys recommend for quiet acoustic recordings?

Acoustic instruments are what I play and record. I've owned several of those preamps, and more. I got rid of them all and bought some that have been used to record musicians like Mark O'Connor, Edgar Meyer, Pat Flynn, Bela Fleck, Andrea Zonn, Stuart Duncan, Joshua Bell, Sam Bush, Yo Yo Ma...

Gordon Instruments preamp.

Steve

SimonT · 13th June 2007, 09:27 AM

My Daking pres really shine on acoustic gats.

ISedlacek · 13th June 2007, 10:19 AM

CraneSong Flamingo is not a bad choice either

pete murray · 13th June 2007, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

Based on my practical experience, I don´t think Pacifica would be very good choice for recording acoustic instruments (if you want to preserve their natural sound, details and depth). It tends to sounds a bit 2D, with hyped highs and scooped mids (which may be useful elsewhere).
If you like, HERE
are samples of one instrument (monochord) recorded on various preamps (including Pacifica). Quite a difference it makes
Comparison with other preamps can be found HERE

In the course of time, I did quite an extensive and intensive search for a great preamp for recording acoustic instruments, using and testing many of the renowned preamps (DACS, Millennia, Crookwood, DAV, Flamingo, Fearn, Pacifica, Fetcode etc.). None of these came close to my ultimate discovery - the new solid state Fred Forssell´s preamp. This is simply the best preamp I ever tried and heard and is simply ideal for recording any acoustic instruments (or anything) - preserving all the details, depth and clarity, without any harshness and still very musical, big and 3D sounding ... A clean, beautiful window to the reality ... Yet completely different sound class than for example Millennia HV-3 which to my ears sounds a bit hard and harsh in comparison. (few days ago, I was recording a pop acoustic guitar using Forssell preamp and both singer and producer were quite excited about the sound, although it is not what I normally record here ...). Also dead quiet with +70dB gain.
Just my personal experience ...

Hi Ivo

Did you ever try the buzz audio ma2.2 ?

Pete

ISedlacek · 13th June 2007, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete murray

Hi Ivo

Did you ever try the buzz audio ma2.2 ?

Pete

No ... there are several hundred preamp brands (at least) - I am sure a big part of them sounding quite similar - and I don´t want to spend the rest of my life trying preamps

Having tried and used quite few of them (of highly respected brands), I found the one that works the best for me (better than all the others I tried) ... Now back to music ...

As someone rightly said: mics can make day and night difference, the preamp 6:00 and 6:30 difference ... Based on my experience I would say 6:00 to 10:00 difference (just listen to quite big sound difference between Millennia or Pacifica and Forssell preamp I posted = rather flat/harsh vs full, detailed, smooth, 3D).

I am sure Buzz is a nice preamp too ...

pete murray · 13th June 2007, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

No ... there are several hundred preamp brands (at least) - I am sure a big part of them sounding quite similar - and I don´t want to spend the rest of my life trying preamps

Having tried and used quite few of them (of highly respected brands), I found the one that works the best for me (better than all the others I tried) ... Now back to music ...

As someone rightly said: mics can make day and night difference, the preamp 6:00 and 6:30 difference ... Based on my experience I would say 6:00 to 10:00 difference (just listen to quite big sound difference between Millennia or Pacifica and Forssell preamp I posted = rather flat/harsh vs full, detailed, smooth, 3D).

I am sure Buzz is a nice preamp too ...

I guess your never really find out unless you hear one!
well i shall keep an eye on the Forssell preamp along with the Gordon which has interested me for quite sometime but your right, back to the music.

Pete
SoundRay Studios

Confusionator · 14th June 2007, 09:42 AM

Another

for the Aphex 1100. I should also mention the unbelievable "high speed pre" from Audio Upgrades.

I recommend buying the preamp comparison CDs from 3daudioinc.com. You'll hear many great preamps on acoustic guitar. The results are sure to be helpful.

I swapped out about $5K in pres after hearing those CDs and couldn't be happier.

jamroom · 14th June 2007, 02:35 PM

A lot of nice pre's have been mentioned above but the one that slays them all is The LaChappel 992.I'm sure that anyone that had actually used one would reccomend it on acoustic over any other pre.I have daking,Pacifica,V72's and have owned or tried most of the pre's mentioned above and All of the engineers at out studio agree that the 992 was the absolute winner on acoustic.Unbeleivabe Detail and smoothness,it really must be heard to be believed.

narco · 14th June 2007, 03:20 PM

the buzz is promoted as a premp for this task

quote from a review "The MA-2.2 is in my mind great for pairing with tube mics as well as solid state ones, as it does not add additional blur and you get the precise blur you want but then, only from the selected mic - without the compound tube effect. This is critical for acoustic instrument recording and certain male bass and baritone voices."

MA-2.2 Class A Mic Preamplifier

narco

diamondjim · 15th June 2007, 08:23 PM

I record acoustic guitar, fiddle, mando, and bass, and love the sound the ADL 600 tube pre gives me.

But I am sure there are plenty of other clean non-tube pre's that will sound great. Compared to my Meek TwinQ, ART Tube MP, and RME FF800 pre's, the ADL along with a nice omni or condensor gives me a nice warm, rich sound.

I am getting a Pacifica REDDI DI delivered today which is also tube based, which I demo'd at TapeOpCOn with my electric violin, and it was incredibly rich as well.

diamondjim
Barn Jazz Home

barryjohns · 15th June 2007, 08:52 PM

The fact that you've gotten so many varied suggestions, clearly says there is no real stand out. So, I'm going for a UA 610, I love it on Acoustic Guitar, better than my Pacifica. I've got a Great River on the way, we will see.

John Brook · 15th June 2007, 09:45 PM

Benchmark Pre420 with built-in summing amp and pan circuit. Have had a chance to use it for three field recording sessions now, and am quite happy with the sound. It's every bit as good as my Syteks and Trues. You'll notice that all three preamps are design by engineers who are trying to provide you a straight wire with gain. I'd say they've succeeded.

John Brook · 15th June 2007, 09:49 PM

I added the UA 2192 A/D/A converter to my setup. It's the best single purchase I've ever made. I had no idea how mediocre most converters really are. You might find that your current mics and pres are just fine once you get some decent converters going for you.

lj Potyk · 15th June 2007, 11:20 PM

what converters were you using before you upgraded to the 2192's?

NoEgo · 15th June 2007, 11:25 PM

How do you want the guitars to sound?

For jangle strumming I like the Grace
For finger style I like the Dacs and Buzz Audio

For deep rich flat picking and warm fingerstyle I like the Tube stuff.
I also use small condensors in a XY or combo of large and small . The AKG is brighter and maybe The Dacs more than say the Grace Design.
This is a tough question to answer until you mention the specific tone you want.
(Maybe you already said.)

Baz · 16th June 2007, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

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12th June 2007, 03:13 AM	#1
koriifuraa Gear interested Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 4	Preamp recommendations for acoustic instruments hi, what 2 ch. preamp would you guys recommend for quiet acoustic recordings? i tend to record a lot of finger picked steel string/classical acoustic guitas, piano, vibraphone, glockenspiel, hammered dulcimer etc. i mainly use a neumann U87 and AKG 414ULS mics. i currently have a 737, so i'm looking for something with a different quality. (i know the 737 has been trashed extensively on Gearslutz : ) ) I know the pacifica has been talked up a lot on this forum. would this be a good choice for my needs? thanks in advance for your advice! korii

12th June 2007, 06:36 AM	#7
klaukholm Lives for gear Join Date: May 2005 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 1,248	Millennia HV3 series and Grace Design are fairly common in classical applications and are likely to be found at most scoring stages. __________________ Kjetil Laukholm European Classical Records CK Recording

12th June 2007, 07:14 AM	#8
Watersound Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Jersey/Nashville, TN Posts: 540	I'll second the Manley Dual Pre- it is way underrated around here. __________________ JD

12th June 2007, 12:11 PM	#11
Rogervandeberg Lives for gear Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 510	For acoustic guitar i just love the 610 (especialy the brighter voiced 610 in the la-610). it just does something to acoustics which i like very much: sprakle, gushy, great. If you want clean/transparent, the millennia td1 comes to mind! __________________ "A cold heart is a dead heart"

12th June 2007, 04:27 AM	#4
koriifuraa Gear interested Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 4	thanks for your input guys! i really appreciate it! -koriii

12th June 2007, 06:06 AM	#5
swankdoc Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,258	Manley dual pre comes to mind.

12th June 2007, 08:44 AM	#9
GYang Lives for gear Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Moscow Posts: 2,764	If you look for clean, very realistic in nice way and with touch of very special class among many great options as DAV, Millenia, Martech, EAR etc., I can warmly recommend my absolute favorite clean type mic pre Gordon (there is 2 ch version, too). Absolute noiseless, with suberb realistic picture of complex acoustic instruments as pianos, brass or strings. I must admit I don't use it all time as for rock or pop it might be just too true to original. If you try Brauner VM1-KHE to Gordon in good monitoring room you'll feel that there is nothing between source and your ears.

12th June 2007, 12:05 PM	#10
tcause Gear maniac Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 219	Millennia, Grace.... but also Cranesong Flamingo is hugely versatile. Incredibly transparent and musical in the non iron, non FAT position... but can be juiced up with these options. You may find that the Iron switch goes on a lot more than not :) A pair of STT-1s is always an attractive option... lots of bases covered here without getting into coloured territory.

12th June 2007, 05:37 PM	#12
Petimar Gear nut Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Seattle Posts: 102	John Hardy pres. May I suggest you also try some quality ribbon mics with the AEA TRP.

12th June 2007, 05:49 PM	#13
gsqd Gear addict Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: LA Posts: 311	1st thing that comes to mind when we talk about clean pres with tons of gain is the Apogee Trak2. I have a rack of 'em and they are wonderful. 90db of gain and as quiet as a quiet thing! If you want more character the A-Designs stuff is brilliant and very good value for money. The Aphex 1100 is another fabulous, little raved about, pre with great options and a stunning solid but erring on neutral sound. Grace and Millenia are also very good but almost too neutral for my taste. I'm sure there are plenty of others but there are the only ones I've used in anger. HTH, GM __________________ "Take your time - as fast as you possibly can!" Need drum samples of pro mixer quality? http://www.stevenslatedrums.com

13th June 2007, 09:27 AM	#16
SimonT Gear Head Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: New Zealand Posts: 35	My Daking pres really shine on acoustic gats.

13th June 2007, 10:19 AM	#17
ISedlacek Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Czech mountains and forests Posts: 2,897	CraneSong Flamingo is not a bad choice either __________________ Ivo Velvet Mastering Savita Music

14th June 2007, 09:42 AM	#21
Confusionator Gear addict Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 405	Another for the Aphex 1100. I should also mention the unbelievable "high speed pre" from Audio Upgrades. I recommend buying the preamp comparison CDs from 3daudioinc.com. You'll hear many great preamps on acoustic guitar. The results are sure to be helpful. I swapped out about $5K in pres after hearing those CDs and couldn't be happier.

14th June 2007, 02:35 PM	#22
jamroom Gear maniac Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: columbia sc Posts: 172	Acoustic Pre A lot of nice pre's have been mentioned above but the one that slays them all is The LaChappel 992.I'm sure that anyone that had actually used one would reccomend it on acoustic over any other pre.I have daking,Pacifica,V72's and have owned or tried most of the pre's mentioned above and All of the engineers at out studio agree that the 992 was the absolute winner on acoustic.Unbeleivabe Detail and smoothness,it really must be heard to be believed. __________________ Jay Matheson Owner Jam Room Studio info@jamroomstudio.com 803 787 6908

14th June 2007, 03:20 PM	#23
narco Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Switzerland/New Zealand/guitar case Posts: 3,443	the buzz is promoted as a premp for this task quote from a review "The MA-2.2 is in my mind great for pairing with tube mics as well as solid state ones, as it does not add additional blur and you get the precise blur you want but then, only from the selected mic - without the compound tube effect. This is critical for acoustic instrument recording and certain male bass and baritone voices." MA-2.2 Class A Mic Preamplifier narco __________________ The last thing for me to sell! FS: Mytek 896 D-A + exp card (located in new zealand) - will ship worldwide

15th June 2007, 08:23 PM	#24
diamondjim Gear addict Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Oracle Arizona Posts: 410	I record acoustic guitar, fiddle, mando, and bass, and love the sound the ADL 600 tube pre gives me. But I am sure there are plenty of other clean non-tube pre's that will sound great. Compared to my Meek TwinQ, ART Tube MP, and RME FF800 pre's, the ADL along with a nice omni or condensor gives me a nice warm, rich sound. I am getting a Pacifica REDDI DI delivered today which is also tube based, which I demo'd at TapeOpCOn with my electric violin, and it was incredibly rich as well. diamondjim Barn Jazz Home

15th June 2007, 08:52 PM	#25
barryjohns Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 2,366	The fact that you've gotten so many varied suggestions, clearly says there is no real stand out. So, I'm going for a UA 610, I love it on Acoustic Guitar, better than my Pacifica. I've got a Great River on the way, we will see. __________________ My hope is we will be able to debate our passion, vice argue a subjective point. Oh, if you ever want to talk about Jesus, PM me

15th June 2007, 09:45 PM	#26
John Brook Gear nut Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 105	And then there's the new Benchmark Pre420 with built-in summing amp and pan circuit. Have had a chance to use it for three field recording sessions now, and am quite happy with the sound. It's every bit as good as my Syteks and Trues. You'll notice that all three preamps are design by engineers who are trying to provide you a straight wire with gain. I'd say they've succeeded.

15th June 2007, 09:49 PM	#27
John Brook Gear nut Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 105	Oh, I forgot to mention . . I added the UA 2192 A/D/A converter to my setup. It's the best single purchase I've ever made. I had no idea how mediocre most converters really are. You might find that your current mics and pres are just fine once you get some decent converters going for you.

15th June 2007, 11:20 PM	#28
lj Potyk Gear nut Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 126	what converters were you using before you upgraded to the 2192's?

15th June 2007, 11:25 PM	#29
NoEgo Gear addict Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Calgary Posts: 406	How do you want the guitars to sound? For jangle strumming I like the Grace For finger style I like the Dacs and Buzz Audio For deep rich flat picking and warm fingerstyle I like the Tube stuff. I also use small condensors in a XY or combo of large and small . The AKG is brighter and maybe The Dacs more than say the Grace Design. This is a tough question to answer until you mention the specific tone you want. (Maybe you already said.)