Jazz band micing assessment

[novemberlima]

I'm a first year audio student, and have been given an assessment on microphone use that i'm having a bit of trouble with. I'm to prepare a recording brief to record a jazz band, and must demonstrate which mics i would use and where I would place them.

The band consists of:
Drums (Gretsch kit, 18" kick, snare, hi-hat, two rack toms, floor tom, ride, crash, and splash cymbals)
Upright acoustic bass
Semi acoustic Gibson guitar with a Fender Jazzman amp
Synth Grand Piano (stereo output)
Tenor sax
Clarinet
Trumpet
Female vox (deep, warm voice)

Mics available:
Neumann U47 FET
Neumann TLM 170
AKG C414
AKG C451B (x3)
Shure SM57
Shure SM58
Sennheiser MD421 (x2)
Rode NT1 (x2)
Rode NT2
Crown PZM
DI boxes (x4)

I'm reasonably familiar with these mics' characteristics, and to what instruments they are best suited, but what I am having trouble with is how I should go about recording a live performance, and how to deal with bleeding between different instruments. Do I go for a mic on each instrument and try to eliminate bleeding as much much as possible with dividers and polar patterns, or do I work with the bleeding and try to capture more of an overhead sound. Attatched is what the studio looks like.

I'm not looking for someone to do the assessment for me, I'm just interested to see how those with experience would go about recording this sort of session. If anyone would like to offer some suggestions, they'd be much appreciated.

[mal]

A few suggestions:

drum o heads..2 x 414's would work well...or 2 x 451's..
kik-from your list prob the 421 is the possibility..

if you need to spot the snare..try the other 451 between the snr & hats
to get both..or the 57 for the snr if you want a tighter mid range sound..
maybe the other 421 on the floor tom to fill the kit out...

bass.from your list try the 47 fet..

trumpet---170 ( a darker mic that will go well with
the bright sound)

clarinet..414 if you have another one..maybe the NT mics would work
(haven't used those)

sax...if you have another 170 good..if not try one of the NT's

synth piano..the 2 di's..

guitar amp...one of the rodes..

vocal..hmnnn...try either of the rodes..maybe the NT 2.....


As to placement...a semi circle can work well..keep good eye contact..
have the drums in a brighter area...vocals with a dead area behind the vocalist..

with that many instruments I wouldn't try for a 'natural' minimalist technique...

Good Luck

Mal Stanley

[zaczac]

Good input from Mal (who knows what he's talking about). Regarding the Rodes, my NT2 tends to come off a bit harsh and muddy all at once but I have heard that some are much nicer. If you're set on the 414s for OH, then I'd maybe even consider a 451 for clarinet. Or just use 451s for OH and you'll have a 414 for clarinet.

[jdunn]

Keep in mind that the U47 FET is ubiquitous with jazz saxophone players. They might almost be expecting that. It is also frequently used on bass I believe, so good suggestion there too.

I'm trying to figure out what they intend to use the PZM on. Bass?

[mal]

I'm trying to figure out what they intend to use the PZM on. Bass?

...Talkback!....

[novemberlima]

Thanks guys for your input, your suggestions have really helped.

Mal, you said I shouldn't go for a minimalist approach because of all the instruments in the band, but I have been researching jazz band micing techniques, and it seems to me that a lot of engineers may go for an overall sound for groups of musicians, rather than one mic per instrument.

For example, in my assessment, rather than micing everything seperately as you might for a rock album, I should instead:

Mic the kick seperate, snare and hi hat together seperately, and the rest use the overheads with no individual mics
Mic the trumpet, clarinet, and sax together with overheads, no individual mics
Mic everything else seperately

Is this the norm in recording jazz? If so, what are the benefits besides ease of setup?

[mal]

Your possible approach is valid..again a lot depends on the style of music, and the room you're working in..and also..is it live to stereo, or do you want to mix it later....if you're mixing later you may want more options..

If it's a trad jazz band..then less is more can work well..if it's more contemporary, then a tighter sound might be more appropriate...
if it's somewhere in the middle..mainstream swing for instance...then a half way approach can work...get some bleed/spill form the drums and louder instruments, but spot the quieter ones like the bass.clarinet & prob guitar.(& vocal)...also keep in mind how the musos want to work. are they all happy with cans?..or do they want to work without them?...
Pre production is really important..find out about the style of jazz, how much time you have, how many tunes...stereo or multitrack...
and have everything set up and tested before the musos arrive..headphones checked etc...pro tools template set up if you're using that.signals tested through the multi etc....so that when they arrive a bit of fine tuning, levels etc is all you should need to do...

In my experience, unless you know the room really well, and you have the time to fiddle with fine muso placement, don't be afraid to mic up with the control you need, even if you don't need it later..some of the purist labels like Chesky & Telarc have the time and resources to get things how they like them (and even then don't always succeed...)....

[jmc_audio]

Hi, I'm actually the one who set this assessment task. It is a first semester assignment within the Degree program at JMC Academy in Australia (Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane)

Thanks for your comments Mal, a lot of that thought process is the sort of thing we are looking for from our students with this assignment.

It is of course only 'virtual', there is no real jazz band. It is an assessment designed to test their application of knowledge gained in class as well as a bit of research in various areas.

In class they learn about polar patterns, distance factor, diaphragm size, electronics, proximity effect etc. as well as some discussion about miking up common instruments. The idea of this assignment is for them to research particular (common) mics and learn what options they have (polar, rolloff, pad) as well as any general thoughts on what they are suited for (also discussed in class). They are also required to consider a Jazz aesthetic when choosing mic positions and patterns. (I don't want to give away too much here about what I consider a 'good answer' in case students are reading)

I've chosen that bunch of mics as a typical list a studio might have. They are all quite common and part of the task is to work out the most efficient use of them (they are also all available at JMC so they can actually try them out themselves). They also need to filter the veracity of the information they read on the web too. I had one student choose the SM58 for the lead singer because they had read it was "the best vocal mic ever invented" Maybe that was from the Shure web site or the author was talking about live sound, but I commented that if the band was professional and they saw that with all that mic choice you put a $200 dynamic on the singer, the singer might think you don't like them! I've intentionally supplied slightly less mics than what they might really want, I want to see how they would use them (good idea with the PZM - some have used it for bass, some for 'ambience')

They are told to imagine they are the in house engineer, they don't know any more than what's on the booking sheet and that they will be arriving well after the band arrives so this assignment is the instructions to the assistant engineer as to where to tell the musicians to set up, as well as their 'best guess' on mic choices and placement. They have to describe the distance, angle, polar pattern choice etc. (remembering that it's jazz) and explain their reasoning for this choice and what kind of sound they hope to obtain. There is more info in the Assessment Brief that I can't include here.

There are many right answers, we are looking for research into the mics, miking techniques for individual instruments and jazz in particular. Placement of musicians should be primarily in regard to who needs to see who and what will produce the best performance. Gobos are available (perspex one side padded on the other) but they don't have to use them. Some students get hung up on spill unnecessarily since it's all to be done in one take.... but I'm saying too much already...

Thanks for your input everyone, I don't know who novemberlima was but I bet they got a pretty good mark!

cheers, Glenn