Sennheiser HD600 vs HD650

[d_fu]

Hmm, maybe I'll just stick with my old Beyers after all... Seems impossible to get hold of a broken-in pair of 701s for a test.

[peeder]

Originally Posted by mosrite

Could you now confirm if the K701's look like some futuristic toilet accessory like I have been suspecting?

Certainly are a bit funny looking...they are ipod-white, and have a real leather top band with a rubber bumpy strip glued to it (this isn't so comfy). A plus is they only have one cord connection (although it is fixed) as opposed to the HD600/650 which have one on each ear, removable. On earlier sennheisers I owned, those little connections failed.

They are definitely for people who have an aversion to bass! I doubt the bass is going to show up much with break-in, but we'll see. If you like bass, the Beyer DT770 Pro has the most, secondmost is the Ultrasone 750, then the HD280 Pro, then the HD600. All of those at least have decent bass response. The K701 has none.

Please tell me, how could all of these glowing reviews of this product be posted here without mentioning the absolute lack of bass on these cans? If you read up on e.g. Waves Maxxbass it points out the fact that people recognize harmonics above bass tones as if it were bass, but every slut ought to know how to use sine waves to avoid that confusion. We're supposed to be better than the hi-fi morons with their phony "balanced" cables that just weigh your head down.

Fortunately I only paid $250 for them (I paid even less for the HD600s). I could return them but I won't bother at that price...they are very good as a bass-light reference, and they aren't so uncomfortable (something we were warned of thanks) as to be unpleasant.

Now the only mystery left for me is whether the HD650 opens up the top end of the HD600...it is a bit rolled starting above ~2K, which sounds really nice, but may not be as accurate. I also wonder about Grados and the better-value electrostats. Compared to monitors and rooms, these are all very cheap ways to be able to hear, even if of course you can't mix on them.

[mosrite]

Now the only mystery left for me is whether the HD650 opens up the top end of the HD600...it is a bit rolled starting above ~2K, which sounds really nice, but may not be as accurate. I also wonder about Grados and the better-value electrostats. Compared to monitors and rooms, these are all very cheap ways to be able to hear, even if of course you can't mix on them.

Now here's a question: if you had to choose either the K701 or HD600 at this stage (before proper break-in of either) ,for most accurate tonal translation to monitors, which would it be?

[lucey]

Originally Posted by mosrite

Now here's a question: if you had to choose either the K701 or HD600 at this stage (before proper break-in of either) ,for most accurate tonal translation to monitors, which would it be?

Translation to what monitors?

Before break in? Why not after?

They are both flat-ish, but the 701s are the most neutral IMO, lots of mid evenness, thin top and bottom, that dry "reference" tonality. That doesn't mean they are better however, or that you should use them. It's more about serving your needs, and you have to use them to see if it happens.

[mosrite]

Translation to what monitors?

Before break in? Why not after?

I should have made the tone of my post clearer I guess. I am under no illusion as to the rather general and unscientific nature of my question

and you have to use them to see if it happens

Not so simple with headphones. Firstly, no demo available (as far as I am aware, at least here) and secondly, with what I've heard of the K701's, they need serious breaking in to be properly assessed.

Anyway I made my purchasing decision already and my HD600's arrive this week. I am, however, interested in Peeders findings along his headphone journey of discovery

I do have to ask the recordists out there (that are using the K701's) if they get funny looks by their clients? they do look a little OTT futuro-retro don't they?

[lucey]

Cool... I hope those work out for you.

[peeder]

Originally Posted by mosrite

Now here's a question: if you had to choose either the K701 or HD600 at this stage (before proper break-in of either) ,for most accurate tonal translation to monitors, which would it be?

HD600 far and away. You made the right choice. They are getting scarce in the market it appears. I imagine the HD650 are at least fairly comparable.

Because the absence of bass in the K701 (it's not "none" but more like down 6db (if not more) at 80Hz or something along those lines) completely affects the presentation at all the other frequencies. Furthermore, this will be a major issue for mic placement in the field: you will start putting too much proximity effect in, for instance. All that bass energy you are oblivious to will murder the levels of your signal.

The K701 is, of course, remarkable in its lack of distortion and evenness across the rest of the spectrum. They had to give too much to get that IMO...

I'll continue to break them both in and see...

[clownjuggles]

There is a difference between bass response and a bass boost. Bear in mind that a headphone isn't designed to be FLAT like a speaker. They aren't dealing with the same room acoustics that speakers have to deal with. also make sure you have a proper headphone amp. Sennheisers are a bitch to drive properly and you haven't heard 600's or 650's if they aren't powered right. They do need right power to sound good. And give the boys at Headroom their due. A lot of them are former grace and Benchmark employees are prt of that place. I haven't heard anyone ever complain about their balanced cable design. If memory serves right balanced signal was used over long distances with headphone cables. We might have totally different uses for equipment. But I know a TON of audiophiles who have as good of ears and expectations of equipment that are as high if not higher than most engineers. I personally am glad to see companies that raise the bar of what people are expecting in the home sector when they listen to our output!

[lucey]

Originally Posted by peeder

They are definitely for people who have an aversion to bass!

Please tell me, how could all of these glowing reviews of this product be posted here without mentioning the absolute lack of bass on these cans?

After 300 hours they have much better bass, but they are very flat, so they are not emotional phones, dont expect a bump or a 'wow'.

Their response is made very clear if you hang at the headphone geek sites like Head-Fi. A Search for "k701" in Titles yields this:

Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio - Search Results

[sasha222]

I prefer the HD600's over the k701's. It is a personal choice though as we all have different earsizes and head shapes. They are both certainly very capable pairs of phones for studio use (they are open though, so no tracking with them.) I also happen to be selling a mint pair in the classifieds section. I also have a pair of HD580's which I have modified and am keeping.

[mosrite]

Received my HD600's today.

These headphones are fantastic. Tonally accurate, seriously comfortable. Wonderful.

I have been testing recordings going through the cans then through my monitors and back again. They match each other so nicely. The monitors appear to have a slightly thicker lower midrange but apart from that I think my location decisions made with the cans will translate very well indeed.

Fantastic. Thanks to all who contributed to this thread and helped me make, what was obviously, the right decision.

[Melodioso]

Originally Posted by mosrite

Received my HD600's today.

These headphones are fantastic. Tonally accurate, seriously comfortable. Wonderful.

I have been testing recordings going through the cans then through my monitors and back again. They match each other so nicely. The monitors appear to have a slightly thicker lower midrange but apart from that I think my location decisions made with the cans will translate very well indeed.

Fantastic. Thanks to all who contributed to this thread and helped me make, what was obviously, the right decision.

Congrats, I'm glad you made a decision and are happy with it. One of the most important aspect of any gear to me is to have total confidence in it. It does not matter if it is the absolute best thing out there: if you can work with a piece of any gear and forget about it, so you can concentrate on THE important aspect (music that is), then it is priceless. Happy listening!

[lucey]

There's no way to be 'sure' or 'totally confident' until you do some work with them, for a week or so, and judge the results. And nothing is "totally accurate", they have a sound. They will break in a bit as well.

Not to dampen but just a reality check on a few points ... I hope you're as happy in 2 months.

[mosrite]

There's no way to be 'sure' or 'totally confident' until you do some work with them, for a week or so, and judge the results. And nothing is "totally accurate", they have a sound. They will break in a bit as well.

Not to dampen but just a reality check on a few points ... I hope you're as happy in 2 months.

Agreed. I did write 'Tonally Accurate' though and not 'Totally Accurate' as you purported

[lucey]

Right, there is no tonally accurate headphone or speaker. The point of these things is to be a work tool, that's all Im saying.

[JohnRodd]

My HD 650's just arrived - and after 48 hours of breaking in, they are starting to sound awesome!

[mosrite]

Right, there is no tonally accurate headphone or speaker.

There is no tonally accurate anything (apart from the original source). I am not a complete numpty

It was a phrase not meant to be taken absolutely literally.

People refer all the time to 'accurate' and 'true' in reference to gear. I do not believe that they actually believe these things to be absolutely so.

Because we are not wearing lab coats at the moment I do not believe that I have to watch my language to such an extent that I cannot use terms like 'tonally accurate.'

They are certainy more tonally accurate to my closed AT cans that's for sure.

[clownjuggles]

Mosrite Glad you like your 600's!

If you ever want to upgrade your 600's check out these cables

Cardas Cable for Senn HD580, HD600 & HD650 (10ft) @ HeadRoom - Right Between Your Ears

[soundseeker]

Originally Posted by clownjuggles

Mosrite Glad you like your 600's!

If you ever want to upgrade your 600's check out these cables

Cardas Cable for Senn HD580, HD600 & HD650 (10ft) @ HeadRoom - Right Between Your Ears

this cable is the same price as the headphones! is there anything cheaper out there??

What Ive gathered from this thread (thanx to peeder) is that the ULtrasone proline 70's could be my best bet for tracking vocals. They gotta be closed but hyper detailed. Are the standard cables ok with them? Any other recommendations?

[mixerguy]

Originally Posted by soundseeker

this cable is the same price as the headphones! is there anything cheaper out there??

What Ive gathered from this thread (thanx to peeder) is that the ULtrasone proline 70's could be my best bet for tracking vocals. They gotta be closed but hyper detailed. Are the standard cables ok with them? Any other recommendations?

ATH-M50's

[macula]

Originally Posted by JohnRodd

My HD 650's just arrived - and after 48 hours of breaking in, they are starting to sound awesome!

It's like wine -- it gets better and better with each glass.

[K.C.]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

IMO mixing on those headphones is like mixing on Genelec monitors...

Your mixes cannot just sound good; they got to sound astonishing.

Since this thread has been resurected maybe Remoteness could explain this comment ?

[K.C.]

Originally Posted by macula

It's like wine -- it gets better and better with each glass.

My new HD650s have about 35 hours on them now and they sound great. I'm using the Cardas cable and the Benchmark DAC-1 HPA2.

There's a big following using the 650s with a balanced cable on the AES outputs of the Benchmark DAC-1. Of course that would among those wacho audiophile types. Not that anyone is a gearslut at home as well ( he says while sitting in front of multiple vintage tube stereo amps while listening to headphones. )

[soundseeker]

Originally Posted by soundseeker

this cable is the same price as the headphones! is there anything cheaper out there??
?

Cardas Cable for Senn HD580, HD600 & HD650 (10ft) @ HeadRoom - Right Between Your Ears
nothing?????

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by soundseeker

Cardas Cable for Senn HD580, HD600 & HD650 (10ft) @ HeadRoom - Right Between Your Ears
nothing?????

But why do they put such a crappy jack plug on it?

If I was buying a replacement cable I would accept nothing less than a Neutrik.

[lucey]

Originally Posted by John Willett

But why do they put such a crappy jack plug on it?

If I was buying a replacement cable I would accept nothing less than a Neutrik.

Not even a switchcraft

I do agree with you ... even the GS-1000s have a molded plastic TRS. Aargh.

[staudio]

I love my HD600's. No desire for anything more. Yes the cable is a little crappy. The sound is amazing though. I can even mix on them with confidence that things will translate. The bass extension is superb, I can easily tell what's going on down there without the room biasing things. For remote work they are great as long as you aren't in the same room with the performers.

[Muggeh]

My HD600´s have been damaged through abuse/drop/pissed off cleaning lady, honestly i have no idea how it happend.

There´s a dent in the left can and now it kind of resonates at a certain frequency, i´m thinking it´s the driver that´s damaged and well with the burn in stuff i think repairing it isn´t ideal.

Other then that they are quite robust and i´ve dropped them lots during the 5-6 years i´ve owned them but what i´m trying to say is, don´t get overconfident with the abuse they can take!

Has anyone used the AKG k271 and 701´s and how do they compare, i mean i kind of have a big head and the 271´s are not comfortable since they need to be stretched out fully and then they start to hurt my ears after a while.