Tascam X48 results so far....

[bonedome]

Purchased and received the X48 (v.1.03) in September 2007 after tracking my record on 3 (formerly reliable) DA-78's, 2 of which died in the process. Word-clock sync was good enough to get everything over from the tapes to the X48 via TDIF...everything sync'd and sounds good.

Here are some random notes, in no particular order:

• still having problems with "missing" files issues. Every once in a while the machine will just spit out an incomrehensible dialog box (something about an inability to do something with a particular inscrutable memory address) and proceed to shut down. Upgrading to 1.04 has reduced, but not resolved this issue. Frequent backups have made this a tedious but not catastrophic issue. I'm reformatting the data partition right now in hopes that maybe some kind of file fragmentation was contributing to the instability.
• 1.04 did resolve issue with the mysterious appearance of unwanted automation.
• Tascam really had to work hard to hit the price point. The drive is really smaller than it should be. The power and track-arming buttons are ridiculous. The Celeron processor seems to strain, at least according to the CPU meter--I'm not too optimistic about how Waves plugins will perform...
• I'm not too experienced with these thing, but I can't figure out how to mix "in the box" or create stems. If you can do this (render a stereo mix) it's not readily obvious in the interface.
• It doesn't seem to conform to interface conventions in some minor and tedious ways. The most annoying of these has to do with how the save dialogs work. I had to learn some goofy work-arounds to keep from mucking-up my files after using "save as" to break out individual songs.
• Does anyone remember the original (marketing) claims for this machine that it would do 24 channels at 24/192? I guess they couldn't figure out how to hit that mark at the price point they advertised.
• Overall I like the machine as a tape-machine-style replacement with some added GUI features. A full-featured DAW it isn't.
• Some quirks have appeared with regarding input assignments that I still haven't figured out.

[bonedome]

Reformatting the data drive *seems* to have greatly improved stability. I wonder how frequently I'll need to do this...

I wish there was some kind of basic defrag utility on this thing.

[LX3]

Originally Posted by bonedome

P[*]I'm not too experienced with these thing, but I can't figure out how to mix "in the box" or create stems. If you can do this (render a stereo mix) it's not readily obvious in the interface.

Hiya. Although I'm not the most experienced X48 user on earth, I think what you're looking for here is the "Mixer Bypass" setting.

When Mixer Bypass is on, it operates as a 48-in, 48-out recorder. i.e. tape machine style

If you switch it off, the internal DSP mixer springs to life, and you can route any input to any output to create submixes etc.

Mixer Bypass is accessible from the GUI - under Windows->Settings->System

HTH

Paul

[bonedome]

Thanks, Paul. Close the mixer to use the mixer . That seems almost counter-intuitive, but I'll give it a shot. We sure do put up with a lot to be Tascam's/Sanewave's beta testers.

In the meantime, another question. I've purchased the Waves Native Power Pack (NPP) for this rig. Since Guitar Center only actually sold me a license code, I went to the Waves website to download the plug-in package. They want me to specify my hardware and software stuff, I assume so that I get the right thing. But of course they don't actually list the Tascam X48 hardware or software.

I'm pretty sure I just need the most generic VST format, but there's no "option" for that. Emails to Waves and Tascam have not yielded replies yet. A call to Tascam's "operational support" line generated an automated response that told me to call back later, *click*.

Once I figure this out, then I hope/assume I can burn a cd with the installation stuff on there, put it in the X48's drive, exit the host system, and install the plug-ins.

Of course all this has to happen with the iLok dongle shoved into a USB port on the back, I guess...

Anyone have any experience to share on this topic?

[bonedome]

And just so I don't sound completely bitchy/moany about this thing, I should mention that we provided the X48 to a local sound company in December as a cross-rental. They recorded (and broadcast live on FM radio) a week of various local choral groups singing Xmas carols. We got the machine back, and the rental fee, without any complaints. They left a copy of the recording on the internal drive, and it sounds good.

[Remoteness]

What????

...Don't worry the Tascam Police will not come and slam your door in.

[bonedome]

Ha! All the Tascam Police would find if they did break the door down is a bunch of broken DA-88's, 38's, 78's and a few dusty TDM-1000's. You'd think I was an endorsee...at least until I open my mouth.

A musician buddy was asking me about the machine and how I liked it today. I said that, all told, I really like it. There's really no way to meet the i/o spex (with meters!) at that price-point with a computer rig, and it sounds pretty good, at least in my setup. It's already been established in this forum that it's a good straight acquisition rig.

That said, I really hope they keep making updates/improvments to flesh-out the DAW side of it. The current problems should've been resolved in the "v0.XX" stage, not v1.XX.

[Remoteness]

I feel you on this one.

We have four of these puppies and we are very concern about the development and progress of this system.

Having forums (and threads like this) that discuss real world issues is paramount in the
growth and advancement of this product.

IMO, education through our network of friends and associates is an excellent way to improve our game when Alpha and Beta testing missed a few things.

[bonedome]

Definitely, Steve Remoteness. I've been lurking around this thread for a couple of weeks as I try to work these kinks out. You peeps have been very helpful to each other and to me.

Then it occurred to me that, even though you folk have covered several of my issues, that maybe I oughta chime in on some of the stuff that hasn't been addressed yet. There are probably other lurkers like me, after all, who haven't had their issues addressed because everyone on this forum has already worked through/past them.

BTW, it's probably fairly obvious that I'm a bass-player/songwriter first, and a somewhat reluctant technician (a distant) second. I have a need-to-know smattering of experience in these things, unlike most of you guys who seem to do this for a living.

My recording partner and I discovered that we could buy ourselves a lot more gear if we were willing to rent out recording gear and/or occasionally do the gigs ourselves. It has worked out okay-- 88's bought 38's, 38's bought 78's, 78's bought an MX-2424, MX-2424 bought an X-48. In the mean time we've also been able to pick up a couple of vintage mics, lots of buck-bang 8-ch preamp units, and even an aging behemoth of a Harrison console that purports to have been used on Stones, George Michael, and ZZ Top tours.

Anyway, all that is by way of apologizing in advance for my selective ignorance, and to thank in advance for the superior breadth of experience that seems to appear in these "rooms."

And I still haven't figured out which friggin' plug-ins to download...

[LX3]

Originally Posted by bonedome

Thanks, Paul. Close the mixer to use the mixer . That seems almost counter-intuitive, but I'll give it a shot.

Yeah, I know, it does force you to think twice.

Mixer Bypass On = no mixer
Mixer Bypass Off = Mixer on

[bonedome]

XXXXX,

Thanks. Since my time was short, and I hadn't yet received responses from you or Tascam, I went ahead and took a flyer and grabbed the Nuendo flavor. You are correct that the X-48 is VST.

The plug-ins seem to work fine on the X48 (most of them ended up in a folder called ...Steinberg\Plug-ins\. which I hadn't known existed until this process.. The only issue is that I installed the plug-ins before I realized that the X48 needed an iLok Driver, which I ended up installing after I installed the plug-ins. I'm still getting messages about not being authorized to use the plug-ins, so I have a sneaking suspicion that they're in the 14-day demo period.

I understand that Waves doesn't support the X48. Having dispensed with that liability issue, in your personal experience, on an XP system with a Cubase/Nuendo-style host, do you think I might need to re-install the plug-ins now that the iLok driver is correctly installed?

Allan

From: support@waves.com [mailto:support@waves.com]

Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 9:27 AM

To: [bonedome]

Subject: Reply to your question (ID: 4491711527137460)

-------Answer from Waves at 1/23/2008 10:27:26 AM

Dear Allan;

Thank you for your email, I'm XXXXX XXXXXXX of Waves Technical Support team.

Waves is not supporting the X48. However, we can try and do some things to make it work, but, I can't promise that we'll succeed.

On the downloads page, choose Version 5, WinXP, Cubase SX and No APA. I assume that the plug-ins engine in the X48 is VST. Try to install it, see if it works, we'll keep going from there.

Best Regards,

XXXXX XXXXXXX

Waves Technical Support

www.waves.com

-------Question/Reply from [bonedome] at 1/22/2008 6:37:58 PM

I have a Tascam X48, which purports to support Waves plug-ins. I purchased the NPP (actually just a license number) at GC. Now I need to download the software and burn it to a disc to install it on the X48. Your download servers are asking me questions which I can''t answer. The X48 runs on a Windows XP Embedded OS, on a Celeron processor of some sort. It''s current X48 software version is 1.04. What is the correct version of the software I need to download? Arguably this is a tech question, but since I haven''t yet downloaded the software (although I have paid for the license, #XXXXXXXXXXXX), I haven''t registered it, and you won''t let me ask a tech question without a registered piece of software. Tascam''s website is, of course, no help. Could you please help me? Thanks!

[bonedome]

Just a quick update...the Waves 5 NPP plugs are installed and working. They seem to introduce some noticeable latency.

[muziekschuur]

Only when inserted on a channel or even when just loaded on the X48?

Originally Posted by bonedome

Just a quick update...the Waves 5 NPP plugs are installed and working. They seem to introduce some noticeable latency.

[bonedome]

Only when inserted on a channel or even when just loaded on the X48?

I inserted a compressor on a group of 2 different kick mics, and it immediately through it out of time. I'll have to verify (not too scientifically, I'm afraid) what the effect is when it's just loaded but not inserted.

[djejnyc]

Ok guys, we've got a week of live recording 40tracks for a concert film. Is the Tascam reliable enough to take on the road for 7 shows? We have a Pro Tools rig but it would be nice to have a backup recorder with a mixer built in (the X48), or should we use a pair of Alesis? Steve? Opinion?
Thanks

[huub]

We have chosen a pyramix system, but here in holland most remote companies have chosen x48's.. I think it's a proven reliable system now really...
huub

[JOHN]

Hello all Gearslutz people

Is the TASCAM X48 stable now ? and does it sound as good or better than a Radar 24

Any comments from owners or users out there?

Cheers

[Peacock]

Originally Posted by JOHN

Hello all Gearslutz people

Is the TASCAM X48 stable now ? and does it sound as good or better than a Radar 24

Any comments from owners or users out there?

Cheers

Radar has way better convertors than the Tascam. It sounds alot better than the Tascam

[johnnyjellybean]

Originally Posted by Peacock

Radar has way better convertors than the Tascam. It sounds alot better than the Tascam

Have you compared them?

[LX3]

We recorded with an X-48 again last night. We got the job done ok, but not without some headaches. The obvious one being the continual "hourglassing". You'd do something really basic like, oh I don't know, saving your project or creating a new project, and everything would lock up... not for 10 seconds, but sometimes 3 minutes or so.

On the up-side, we found that (contrary to Tascam's warnings), it was very happy recording large track counts at 96kHz on an external firewire drive. Which was just as well, because the internal drive filled up in no time at all.... there wasn't even enough space to record two hours of audio. (The GUI presents you with a measure of free space in "percent", which doesn't mean much until you start recording. I timed it and found that the disk was getting eaten up at about 1% every minute... despite starting with a clean drive, we had only 40% left and hadn't finished the first set yet!).

As it turned out, the X-48 was a lot happier recording to the external drive than the internal. On internal the GUI would freeze for a moment or every four seconds or so and the CPU usage meter would hit 80% regularly.

I still believe in the X-48 as a concept. I just hope Tascam are working on getting the software right.

Is anyone interested in starting a mailing list or forum specifically for the X-48? I'd hoped that TascamForums would help users put their heads together, but it doesn't seem very popular - probably explained by the $4 registration fee...

[LX3]

While I'm at it, can any of you more experienced X-48 users answer a couple of questions?...

1) Is there any way to start a new project using all the settings from another project (but without copying the audio)? I use the mixer to subgroup things down to less than 48 channels, and I can't find a way to create a new project without having to completely recreate all the routing and track naming from scratch every time.

2) How do you create new projects that work in "destructive" (tape) mode from the front panel? It took me forever to discover that you get the option to select destructive/non-destructive when creating a project from the GUI. But why not on the front panel? Or have I missed something?

3) Is it me, or does track soloing not work on tracks that are routed through a group? If so, that's a problem!...

Cheers

Paul

[Roland]

Originally Posted by LX3

While I'm at it, can any of you more experienced X-48 users answer a couple of questions?...

1) Is there any way to start a new project using all the settings from another project (but without copying the audio)? I use the mixer to subgroup things down to less than 48 channels, and I can't find a way to create a new project without having to completely recreate all the routing and track naming from scratch every time.

2) How do you create new projects that work in "destructive" (tape) mode from the front panel? It took me forever to discover that you get the option to select destructive/non-destructive when creating a project from the GUI. But why not on the front panel? Or have I missed something?

3) Is it me, or does track soloing not work on tracks that are routed through a group? If so, that's a problem!...

Cheers

Paul

I haven't played with the X48 myself, but I would have thought you could set up a dummy "template" project with a configuration you like then open that and save it with a new name prior to starting a project.

Regards


Roland

[Roland]

Originally Posted by LX3

We recorded with an X-48 again last night. We got the job done ok, but not without some headaches. The obvious one being the continual "hourglassing". You'd do something really basic like, oh I don't know, saving your project or creating a new project, and everything would lock up... not for 10 seconds, but sometimes 3 minutes or so.

On the up-side, we found that (contrary to Tascam's warnings), it was very happy recording large track counts at 96kHz on an external firewire drive. Which was just as well, because the internal drive filled up in no time at all.... there wasn't even enough space to record two hours of audio. (The GUI presents you with a measure of free space in "percent", which doesn't mean much until you start recording. I timed it and found that the disk was getting eaten up at about 1% every minute... despite starting with a clean drive, we had only 40% left and hadn't finished the first set yet!).

As it turned out, the X-48 was a lot happier recording to the external drive than the internal. On internal the GUI would freeze for a moment or every four seconds or so and the CPU usage meter would hit 80% regularly.

I still believe in the X-48 as a concept. I just hope Tascam are working on getting the software right.

Is anyone interested in starting a mailing list or forum specifically for the X-48? I'd hoped that TascamForums would help users put their heads together, but it doesn't seem very popular - probably explained by the $4 registration fee...

at full track count and 96khz I make that around 8 meg a second, sustained. Depending on your interface and your drive it may or may not be a problem. If you have a slightly older style drive that thermally recalibrates or one with an older firewire to IDE convertor it could certainly give you problems. Two issues come to mind, one being the fact that the data rate is sustained (this is far harder than the usually quoted sustained rates by the drive manufacturer) and secondly my understanding is that the X48 is writing BWF's which would represent 48 simultainious files at once. 8 meg sustained over maybe an hour or two, on a single drive, is still a lot.

Regards



Roland

[LX3]

Originally Posted by Roland

I haven't played with the X48 myself, but I would have thought you could set up a dummy "template" project with a configuration you like then open that and save it with a new name prior to starting a project.

Regards


Roland

Thanks Roland. Yes, you'd think, wouldn't you? There may be a workaround that goes something like that, but "Save project as..." actually just creates a new project file which references your recorded audio, much like most DAWs where you can save new mixes for a song as you work on it.

It does not create a new independent project with it's own audio folder. I'm not even sure what would happen if you saved as a new project, then rewound and started recording from zero.... would it start overwriting your previously recorded audio?

You can use the file manager to copy a project folder, complete with it's audio, but you can only copy it to another volume (i.e. another drive)... which means you have to have an external drive with you.

I'd like to be able to record audio into a project, tweak the mixer and routing while I'm at it, (or perhaps after the event - changing routing sessions while recording doesn't seem to work), then create a new project folder with those settings. If I've recorded an hour or more's audio into the project, then use copy, I have to copy all the audio as well, which could take half an hour... assuming I have the disk space to copy it into in the first place.

There is a tantalising-looking "Templates" folder on the X-48 drive, but no indication of how it works or how to create a template, or create a new project from one.

Slightly nuts. As someone said, Tascam have built a DAW into a lump of hardware... not considering perhaps that people tend to use hardware recorders in a different way and in different situations to most DAWs. If I wanted to record live into a DAW, there are better DAWs than the X-48. Speed of use and a degree of idiot-proof-ness is what I'm looking for in a live recording unit, and those are the two things that the X-48 lacks the most IMO.

The solution is to ignore the DAW and mixer and use it as a straight 48-in 48-out HD recorder. But that raises some practicality issues.... (basically, how to monitor 48 inputs if you don't want to carry a big desk around with you) and one of the attractions of the X-48 was that it looked like it might get around that problem.

All a bit frustrating.

[JOHN]

Originally Posted by johnnyjellybean

Have you compared them?

on the net

[Roland]

I have to say that from your comments it sounds like either you use the X48 as a straight 48 channel recorder or a slightly second rate DAW. As you might know from my previous posts I am a Pyramix user and I specifically bought into Pyramix in order to be able to do exactly what you area talking about. I also do a lot of mastering and CD preparation and I specifically wanted to get to a "one machine does it all" situation. Prior to having Pyramix I was previously on Adats, Radar and a Sadie system for the mastering and editing. I could work round almost any situation with that, however the ability to do great multitrack edits and have several versions of a project in different stages of completion, all in a single system, made the decision easy for me. the only problem I had was the lack of VST support on busses which meant that for serious mix projects I had to "bump" the audio to another program like Logic for mixing. Pyramix alsocan use it's own proprietry recording format (Pmf files) which records the audio as a single linear file making it much more efficient for higher track counts. With the latest ver 6 software and their masscore technology the VST issue has been solved and much higher plugin counts can be used in comparison with other DAW's on the market, not the cheapest solution on the market, but one that I'm appreciating more and more.


Regards



Roland

[johnnyjellybean]

What? With MP3 files? Not a very accurate comparison. Although I would assume the Radar is the better sounding unit, I wouldn't positively say so without an accurate comparison.

[AlphaDingo]

Just to fan the flames a bit...if it sounds better with an mp3 comparison wouldn't the difference be even more dramatic in real life?

[johnnyjellybean]

Originally Posted by AlphaDingo

Just to fan the flames a bit...if it sounds better with an mp3 comparison wouldn't the difference be even more dramatic in real life?

Not a valid comparison since there would be too many variables.

[LX3]

Originally Posted by Roland

at full track count and 96khz I make that around 8 meg a second, sustained.

Actually, I think it's closer to 14MB/s... and that's not even considering the fact that it's writing 48 separate files simultaneously.

I was only recording 36 tracks, which I calculated to be around 10MB/s.

But, let's put it this way... over FW400 on a MacBook Pro, any decent modern drive manages 20MB/s sustained without a problem, and a large drive cache (pref 16MB) takes the pressure off when there are spikes.

In theory the internal X-48 drive will go way faster than that thanks to the SATA connection. (Same goes for internal drives on PCs/Macs)

But so much for the theory - as I say, the X-48's internal drive seemed to have more difficulty keeping up than the external firewire drive. Fragmentation? Crummy drive? Who knows.

Usefully, there's a drive benchmarking utility on the X-48 which writes some test files for a minute or so and reports back how many tracks the target drive will support at 48 and 96kHz. On a plain LaCie external firewire drive, it said "48 tracks at 48kHz, 48 tracks at 96kHz". Which surprised me (in a good way), so who am I to argue?

I find people tend to get a bit paranoid about data rates and access times. Modern drives do really shift it. But I agree, 48 tracks of 96kHz is getting into the danger zone for a single drive. And yeah, I've also been burned when unwittingly using FW-IDE bridge boards from certain manufacturers.

Like Pyramix, the HD24 makes a big deal of the fact that all the data is interleaved, so it's only reading/writing to a single file. But there are plenty of HD recorders like the X-48 that do create separate files for each track, and never miss a beat. The advantage of this is that you can record to an external drive, and just hand the drive to the client at the end of the night. No exporting or translation required. We're so up against it for time on a lot of gigs that this is a real benefit.