Tascam X48 results so far....

[BrianT]

Originally Posted by HughH

Still not perfectly reliable, very occasionally files are lost.
H

Ouch!

[Remoteness]

Yes, indeed we have also "lost" tracks, but they are there.
You have to go look for them and it's not pretty.

I believe this has been fixed with the newest software revision.

[HughH]

Hello,
"Looking" for the tracks doesn't really work in our application because after a remote we make a copy of the files, send one away, and keep the other. When the x-48 loses them it doesn't find them to copy, so it would have to be done on another computer. Too dangerous at the end of the session while the rest of the video truck is packing up. Just tell the client "I can't find the files, let's try on another computer". Not good.
Also, when it loses the files the disk space remaining menu indicates they're really gone - will it eventually record over them if you keep recording? Haven't tested that yet and of course can't afford to try it.
We really want this device to succeed. As long as Tascam keeps fixing updates it will probably, eventually, maybe be a good tracking machine. Until then the one-time live events for tv we do make the unit unacceptably dangerous but with each update we run it through shows as a backup.
H

[Remoteness]

Yeah, I hear that my fellow remotester.

The only time we lost a track was during an overdub session of a live recording we did a week earlier. Thank goodness no tracks were lost during the original live recording session even though we had a backup running.

"Looking" for those tracks at the end of a live location recording would not have worked for us either. If we had to tell the client, we couldn't find the files and such..." that would be "forever" at that point.

This is why a backup system is a must. Whenever possible, a backup to the backup is super smart business in my opinion.

48 tracks in one box is very appealing to me. I also would like this device to succeed or at least until someone else comes up with a solid stand alone box (recorder) that can handle at least 48 tracks at one time.

We work with a wide variety of recordable media. We tend to listen to what our clients ask for and suggest options when applicable.

[Cut It Live]

Originally Posted by HughH

Hello,
This was also posted on the Nuendo post forum.

The X-48 is finally out.......

H

Thanks Hugh...Are you recording straight to firewire? I noticed when formatting a firewire drive for the X48 the manual we recieved was unclear....Where it says to right click the bar we actually had to use the partitian drive dialouge box.

Thanks for the info. Hope all is well!

Scott P.
DFX


Formatting a New Drive
A new hard drive needs to be formatted before recording on the X-48. To do this:

Mouse/Keyboard Operation

• Click the File menu and choose Disk Management...
• The X-48 warns you that it will shut down after running this application. Click Yes
(or No) to save your project first.
• The next prompt warns you that you can do some serious damage by misusing the
Disk Management tool, such as modifying the C: drive. Click OK when you're ready
to begin.
• The Disk Management tool opens. Disk0 should be the startup disk, partitioned into
the C: drive (your operating system and program files), and the D: drive (the Data
partition you can write to).
• If you've connected a FireWire drive, you should see it mounted as Disk1.
To format this disk, right-click the bar on the right and select "Format."
• Give the disk a name and click OK twice.
• When you're finished, click the Close box in the top right corner. The X-48 will shut
down. Restart the recorder to begin using your drive.

[HughH]

Hi Scott,
Good to hear from you, it's been a while. We were just having a discussion a few weeks ago about how good your mixes always sound, miss working with you. How's the API holding up?

Yes, we're recording straight to firewire drives because the internal is too small. The latest release notes for the x-48 state a couple of conditions where you should format with QuickFormat off, meaning it takes a REALLY long time. Those conditions are
1-if you've recorded 3-5 projects on the drive and have then erased them
2-if you're doing a long record pass.
Now, maybe I'm being obtuse, but it's using embedded XP, a very well-known OS with a well-defined disk system. Once you've formatted the drive with QuickFormat off for the first time, you should be able to use QuickFormat repeatedly until you want to check errors on the drive. 48 track record under XP is trivial these days.

I don't like being repeatedly negative about this box because I want it to work; it just has to improve first. We'll keep trying.

H

[Cut It Live]

Originally Posted by HughH

Hi Scott,
Good to hear from you, it's been a while. We were just having a discussion a few weeks ago about how good your mixes always sound, miss working with you. How's the API holding up?

Yes, we're recording straight to firewire drives because the internal is too small. The latest release notes for the x-48 state a couple of conditions where you should format with QuickFormat off, meaning it takes a REALLY long time. Those conditions are
1-if you've recorded 3-5 projects on the drive and have then erased them
2-if you're doing a long record pass.
Now, maybe I'm being obtuse, but it's using embedded XP, a very well-known OS with a well-defined disk system. Once you've formatted the drive with QuickFormat off for the first time, you should be able to use QuickFormat repeatedly until you want to check errors on the drive. 48 track record under XP is trivial these days.

I don't like being repeatedly negative about this box because I want it to work; it just has to improve first. We'll keep trying.

H

Hi Hugh, great to hear from you too. The API's doing great. I only wish it had 120 preamps, faders and total recall as well as the NHL package. I'm with ya on the X48! I like this thing. It has a lot of potential. It feels a little clumsy but I'm still a newby so your knowledge is greatly appreciated. I don't know anyone who's worked on as many high profile shows as you. I'm bowing and so should everyone. Knowledge, Balls and Patience makes Hugh...Hugh. And as far as my mixes go, thanks for the nice words...but I only play the good ones for people :)

Scott
DFX

[LX3]

Somewhat obvious question for you X-48 people, but one I haven't been able to find an answer to...

Is it possible to upgrade the internal drive to something more sensible? (e.g. 250GB). Or (better still) is it possible to install a removable HD system in place of the DVD-R drive?

With 48-tracks of 96kHz at my disposal I'd eat thru an 80GB drive in no time, and I'd rather not have to drag an extra firewire drive about.

[mpdonahue]

Originally Posted by LX3

Somewhat obvious question for you X-48 people, but one I haven't been able to find an answer to...

Is it possible to upgrade the internal drive to something more sensible? (e.g. 250GB). Or (better still) is it possible to install a removable HD system in place of the DVD-R drive?

With 48-tracks of 96kHz at my disposal I'd eat thru an 80GB drive in no time, and I'd rather not have to drag an extra firewire drive about.

Paul,
We installed an SATA pullout bay in place of the DVD-R. There is a spare SATA port on the motherboard. The only issue is that you need to use keyboard and Mouse to make it the record volume. The drive can be formatted in drive management and behaves like any other volume. Now that they have fixed the permissions issue this should be a viable alternative to the firewire.
-mark

[LX3]

Cool news Mark, thanks. I suspected that should be possible, but was surprised how little I'd been able to find out about it.

[muziekschuur]

From the releasenotes by Tascam (for download at http://www.tascam.com/i-751-232-128-4-E64809B0.pdf)

Version 1.04
New Features
• To ensure proper recording while synchronized, the X-48 must now be in a locked
state to external timecode and clock before entering record. This is consistent
with previous TASCAM recorders (DTRS, MX-2424).
• New keyboard shortcuts have been added:
o “I” sets a punch-in point.
o “O” sets a punch-out point.
• In the I/O tab of the Settings window, it is now possible to select “Professional”
or “Consumer” mode for the S/PDIF output.
• It is now possible to use the CTRL+C (copy) and CTRL+V (paste) shortcuts from
a QWERTY keyboard to copy/paste text in the Track Screen’s track naming fields.
Maintenance Items
• Optimizations have been made to reduce CPU resources used by the VGA user
interface while recording.
• Previously, rare cases were reported of tracks playing out of time. This has been
fixed in 1.04.
• Previously, destructive recording mode would leave files on the hard drive
beyond the expected one audio file per track. This has been corrected in 1.04.
• Previously, mixer automation data was incorrectly being written whenever a fader
was moved while the transport was in motion. From Version 1.04, automation
data must be drawn in the track screen.
• Previously, the X-48 would incorrectly output a timecode burst upon locate when
the Timecode Output Muting parameter was set to Play Only. This has been
corrected for consistency with the MX-2424.
• The status indicators and meters on the VGA UI are now brighter for improved
visibility.

I am very pleased to read about the SATAPORT. On Tascamforums are pictures available from a X48 from the first release & a second batch machine release. There seem to be differences between the two models. Could be there are machines without that extra SATA-PORT. It would be nice if we can get a grip on that.

Thanks.


Muziekschuur

[davioh]

any news/ reviews on those using this in the studio (esp with tascam's mixers)????

[davioh]

Originally Posted by HughH

Still not perfectly reliable, very occasionally files are lost.
Getting better, not yet solid.
H

this problem ever fixed?

[Remoteness]

I haven't lost a file since the new software update.

[HughH]

Hello,
An associate just used the X-48 on a large-scale tv show with the newest version of software for 4 days. WC lock, tc chase for rec, then tc chase for post.
Worked fine, no sync issues, no lost files.
Chase seemed solid although it took a few seconds to lock up each time.
He didn't use any of the editing/Daw functions, so not tested.

Could be looking good....
H

[jimdetroit]

I have a Radar 24 but am curious about the x-48 for general music recording. How does the sound compare between the two? Ease of use?
Any comments would be appreciated!
Jim

[LX3]

Just realised that you need the internal DVD drive should you need to reinstall (or I guess upgrade) the operating software.

Anyone successfully replaced the internal HD with something substantially bigger? I don't see why that would be a problem.

I know, I should just buy one and get on with it, but right now, £5500+ is a significant chunk of cash to spend for my operation. And there are a number of catches with the X48 that I'm not completely comfortable with yet.

Thanks

Paul

[muziekschuur]

Hi,


You're fine with two Alesis HD24XR's.

Please check out HD24tools by Marc Breevoort :
HD24tools

[LX3]

I already have two HD24XRs.

[Oops, just realised you might have meant my two XRs will do fine... and it wasn't a suggestion to get two XRs]

After three years relatively faithful service, the XRs are destined to become my backup machines I expect. They do work great, but the catches are... no timecode, no B-WAV (because there's no timecode), and some reliability issues.

Not that there aren't catches with the X-48 as well... just different kinds of catches.

[drastic]

Just ordered an X48 today. Can't wait to put it to work.

[jimdetroit]

I'm getting an X-48 demo to use for a week from Tascam, I'll be comparing it to my 48k Radar system. I'll post something when after the shootout!
Jim

[muziekschuur]

How did it work out?

[jdmmobile]

Not the PT HD system we are used to. Good back up and soon a great system record for Fly pack. Early yet.

JD

JDM Mobile -"Anywhere"
JDM Mobile | Remote location recording and broadcast company.

[HughH]

Hello,
Just used version 1.04 again on two large TV shows in DC, a week apart. Analog I/O, wc sync, tc chase, no DAW or file operations tested, just file acquisition and chase. Recorded several rehearsals, stop and start, along with the shows, with a different project folder/project file per day. No import/export tested either unfortunately.

First day had some issues with one drive misbehaving, think it was the drive. The operator could not reliably describe "what actually happened", so we're going with the drive scenario. We hope. All other drives were fine, and of high quality (G-Drive).

The gui is still fragile - the track overview indicates you're in a particular spot (little blue rectangle) but it's not always accurate. Unit still occasionally goes out of auto-scroll when you're changing window zooming. That should be a key command although not a toggle.

Takes a little too long to chase tc (I'm used to Nuendo's 1/4 to 1/2 second lock time) but it does the job. The VERY strange chase offset behavior I described earlier has been fixed.

The oddest behavior we've seen has to do with start/stop recordings. This happened during both weeks, with multiple shows, drives, dates, and locations. The track overview is open.
We'll record a bit locked to tc, then stop recording while continuing to chase tc. Sometime later we record again, then stop recording, continuing chase. Sometime later after several of these cycles we notice the first few tracks are contiguous the entire length of the recorded tracks. In other words, if most of the tracks have, for instance, 6 events recorded on them, tracks 1-4 will each be one long contiguous track from the beginning of event 1 to the end of event 6. As we go on with this pattern and record events 7, 8, 9, 10, the track overview will update at the end of each event with the correct tracks, then sometime arbitrarily the contiguous tracks will extend to the end of the new events. As time goes on, the number of contiguous tracks will increase, so that at the end of the day it may be as many as the first 12 or 14 contiguous tracks, or as few as 4. Also arbitrarily, the contiguous tracks may stop extending to new events, although that could have been caused by stopping tc chase at some point.
Looking in the File Manager, normal tracks have files of -
Track48_00
Track48_01
Track48_02
etc., while the contiguous tracks have ONE file of -
Track1_ren_00
with NO additional files.
The "ren" file's size reflects the additional size of when recording was not taking place, but when you play it back during those non-record times there's only silence, no audio. The machine was not recording during the non-record times, and the disk was not being accessed during the non-record times, but when you play them back the disk is being accessed.
Something in the file system is not playing nicely or the operator was accidentally doing something very weird!

I think something somewhere has changed in the Disk Management software - formerly you could plug in a firewire drive, enter Disk Management, right click on the firewire drive or the right section of the bar (usually Disk 1), and select Format. Now when you right click on anything having to do with the firewire drive the menu comes up but it's grayed out. Only by formatting it to "msdos" on a Mac, then mounting on the X-48, can you get the right-click menu to allow formatting. I'm sure it would also work formatting it externally on a PC.
We're using HFS+ drives and attempting to re-format them (to NTFS obviously) on the X-48. Does the X-48 prohibit formatting an HFS+ drive to NTFS? Or has something else changed? Don't know at this time.

Hugh

[Remoteness]

Damn!

[muziekschuur]

Are more people using recorders the way Hugh discribes it?

Hugh, what type of equipment does work within this particular scenario?


Muziekschuur

[yrplace]

Have you contacted Tascam about this? We recently formated a firewire drive on the x-48 with no problems and although we haven't done multiple recordings in the same session while locked to tc more then a few times , so far we've had no problems.

Mark

Originally Posted by HughH

Hello,
Just used version 1.04 again on two large TV shows in DC, a week apart. Analog I/O, wc sync, tc chase, no DAW or file operations tested, just file acquisition and chase. Recorded several rehearsals, stop and start, along with the shows, with a different project folder/project file per day. No import/export tested either unfortunately.

First day had some issues with one drive misbehaving, think it was the drive. The operator could not reliably describe "what actually happened", so we're going with the drive scenario. We hope. All other drives were fine, and of high quality (G-Drive).

The gui is still fragile - the track overview indicates you're in a particular spot (little blue rectangle) but it's not always accurate. Unit still occasionally goes out of auto-scroll when you're changing window zooming. That should be a key command although not a toggle.

Takes a little too long to chase tc (I'm used to Nuendo's 1/4 to 1/2 second lock time) but it does the job. The VERY strange chase offset behavior I described earlier has been fixed.

The oddest behavior we've seen has to do with start/stop recordings. This happened during both weeks, with multiple shows, drives, dates, and locations. The track overview is open.
We'll record a bit locked to tc, then stop recording while continuing to chase tc. Sometime later we record again, then stop recording, continuing chase. Sometime later after several of these cycles we notice the first few tracks are contiguous the entire length of the recorded tracks. In other words, if most of the tracks have, for instance, 6 events recorded on them, tracks 1-4 will each be one long contiguous track from the beginning of event 1 to the end of event 6. As we go on with this pattern and record events 7, 8, 9, 10, the track overview will update at the end of each event with the correct tracks, then sometime arbitrarily the contiguous tracks will extend to the end of the new events. As time goes on, the number of contiguous tracks will increase, so that at the end of the day it may be as many as the first 12 or 14 contiguous tracks, or as few as 4. Also arbitrarily, the contiguous tracks may stop extending to new events, although that could have been caused by stopping tc chase at some point.
Looking in the File Manager, normal tracks have files of -
Track48_00
Track48_01
Track48_02
etc., while the contiguous tracks have ONE file of -
Track1_ren_00
with NO additional files.
The "ren" file's size reflects the additional size of when recording was not taking place, but when you play it back during those non-record times there's only silence, no audio. The machine was not recording during the non-record times, and the disk was not being accessed during the non-record times, but when you play them back the disk is being accessed.
Something in the file system is not playing nicely or the operator was accidentally doing something very weird!

I think something somewhere has changed in the Disk Management software - formerly you could plug in a firewire drive, enter Disk Management, right click on the firewire drive or the right section of the bar (usually Disk 1), and select Format. Now when you right click on anything having to do with the firewire drive the menu comes up but it's grayed out. Only by formatting it to "msdos" on a Mac, then mounting on the X-48, can you get the right-click menu to allow formatting. I'm sure it would also work formatting it externally on a PC.
We're using HFS+ drives and attempting to re-format them (to NTFS obviously) on the X-48. Does the X-48 prohibit formatting an HFS+ drive to NTFS? Or has something else changed? Don't know at this time.

Hugh

[HughH]

Hello,

yrplace -
We've waited on hold for Tascam on a few occasions, only to have the technician tell us "oh, I don't know about that, we'll have someone call you back" which of course never happens.
The firewire formatting thing - In the past the machine's owner bought cheap drives that came either raw or fat32, and reformatted to ntfs on the x-48. After some failures he's now using G-drives that come HFS+, and reformatting to ntfs on the x-48. It's my suspicion that the x-48 won't format to anything when the drive starts as HFS+, because when we format that same drive on something else to fat32, the x-48 will reformat just fine. Odd behavior for a machine used in audio.

Muziekschuur -
Do you mean what type of equipment in general? Fast, reliable, effective. We've used them all based on the client - dtrs, PT, Nuendo, Radar, analog 24 trk. The key is to record time-stamped files, be reliable, and not require an undue amount of time or space. The x-48 answers those issues if it continues to improve.

H

[LX3]

I finally did a gig with an X-48 last night. Rather mixed feelings about it. Okay, worse than that... basically it let us down, so I'm relieved I had my HD24XRs as backup.

The worst "let down" was that it crashed early in the second set. We were using the DSP mixer to monitor. The producer clicked something on-screen (I don't know what, but I would guess it was a solo) and a windows error dialog popped up. And that was that. Everything locked up, including the front panel, and we had to pull the power and reboot, create a new project, reconfigure everything from scratch (which all takes rather a long time), and start recording again.

We also got into a jam early on because because it seems to be impossible to delete selected audio files. We started with a brand new machine, no audio on it, and recorded chunks of the soundcheck as normal. But we had accidentally created the project in "non-destructive mode", so winding to zero for the actual show and recording was not going to save any space. So come the end of the first 45-minute set, we had used 80% of the available disk space, and there was no hope of getting the second 90-minute set on there.

So, you'd think, "We'll just delete the soundcheck audio". Nope. You could see the soundcheck audio in the pool, but the delete button didn't work. (also, I must say, I wish takes were better named... didn't seem to be any logic to it, and establishing which file belonged to which take was a matter of guessing... unless there's some trick to it that I missed).

So we were stuffed. The only solution was to delete the entire project and use the audio from the "backup" recorders (which of course became our primary recorders after the crash in the second set!).

Other things I didn't like (maybe it's just because I'm new to the X-48, but still):

* Fiddly user interface. Trying to remember which parameter was a "pref" and which was a "sys"... And although I got by, the whole change/up/down/yes/no/home/exit system seems a bit of a mess.

* No locators on the front panel - not even return to zero. Unless I missed something.

* The space bar on a USB keyboard will stop the machine, even in record. So, you're typing in a field, you'd better not accidentally hop out of the field and carry on typing, because you'll stop recording! Also, on our keyboard, it was very easy to nudge the space bar, because it was millimeters away from the track pad, and had a bit of a hair trigger as it were.

* Very difficult (in fact, impossible?) to create a new project based on a previous one. Again, unless I missed something... I'd like to copy a project, but doesn't that copy all the audio as well? Saving a startup "template" didn't seem to work at all, although maybe we did something wrong (although we followed the manual to the letter.)

* Hardware metering is rather low resolution, and although the on-screen meters are pretty, there's no scale on them. So you never really know where you're peaking.

Overall I was disappointed with the X48. Maybe you learn to live with it. Maybe software updates will slowly improve things? Maybe it's just that the X48 is new to me. But the Alesis machines (which I like, but are not a basket I would put all my eggs in normally) were an absolute dream by comparison.

(We called Tascam's US support twice during the show to try and solve things, and they were either "at lunch" or "too busy to talk to us".)

These are of course "new user" impressions, and I'd welcome any feedback from you experienced users. I think the X48 has lots of potential, and occupies a pretty unique space, but for now, it's not saying "buy me" quite as loudly as it was.

Paul

[yrplace]

Originally Posted by LX3

I finally did a gig with an X-48 last night. Rather mixed feelings about it. Okay, worse than that... basically it let us down, so I'm relieved I had my HD24XRs as backup.

The worst "let down" was that it crashed early in the second set. We were using the DSP mixer to monitor. The producer clicked something on-screen (I don't know what, but I would guess it was a solo) and a windows error dialog popped up. And that was that. Everything locked up, including the front panel, and we had to pull the power and reboot, create a new project, reconfigure everything from scratch (which all takes rather a long time), and start recording again.

We also got into a jam early on because because it seems to be impossible to delete selected audio files. We started with a brand new machine, no audio on it, and recorded chunks of the soundcheck as normal. But we had accidentally created the project in "non-destructive mode", so winding to zero for the actual show and recording was not going to save any space. So come the end of the first 45-minute set, we had used 80% of the available disk space, and there was no hope of getting the second 90-minute set on there.

So, you'd think, "We'll just delete the soundcheck audio&q