at4050 fig-8 frequency response

[Jimbo]

I'm interested to know if people have found the fig-8 frequency response on this mic to be as tight as the spec sheet depicts?

Audio-Technica - Microphones, headphones, wireless microphone systems, noise-cancelling headphones & more : AT4050 : Multi-pattern Condenser Microphone

Why did I post this in this forum? Because I'm not interested in hearing how great/bad the at4050 sounds when it's shoved into the cone of an amp
[edit: OK, actually I posted it here because I need the fig8 for better off-axis rejection during live recording]

As always, Thanks!

[David Rick]

The issue in this case is not how "tight" the pattern is. LDC's may actually look tighter just because of high-frequency pattern narrowing. But what you really care about in your application is the quality and position of the null. Cheap figure-eights may not have the same polarization and/or tension on the back diaphragm as the front, which can put the null in the wrong place, or cause it to be frequency dependent. I wouldn't expect that to be a problem with a 4050. Plus you see them all the time in Steve Remote's channel lists!

My own issue with the 4050 has been that I don't really like the way it sounds on room ambience when you're using it as the Side mic in a M/S arrangement. Way too colored for my taste, so I eventually sold mine. But the sax player I sold it to went gaga over it.

David L. Rick
Seventh String Recording

[Jimbo]

Originally Posted by David Rick

The issue in this case is not how "tight" the pattern is.

Actually, yes it is. First, let me explain, that by "tight", I am referring to the frequency response within the polar pattern. For my purpose, I want to know that if the player moves off axis a bit (as expected....damn fiddlers ) that I will get only a change in amplitude, not a change in frequency response. The change in amplitude can be addressed via compression, the change in frequency response will be an EQ hassle.

Originally Posted by David Rick

LDC's may actually look tighter just because of high-frequency pattern narrowing.

Please take a look at the spec in the link that I provided in my original post. You'll see that the polar pattern shows that the response is even across all frequencies in the figure-8 pattern, not so for cardiod and omni. My question to the forum is whether anyone can confirm this information, or whether AT is cheating the graphs.

Originally Posted by David Rick

But what you really care about in your application is the quality and position of the null. Cheap figure-eights may not have the same polarization and/or tension on the back diaphragm as the front, which can put the null in the wrong place, or cause it to be frequency dependent.

Now, this is something I hadn't thought about, and is certainly a valid concern. Not only should I be concerned with how well the frequencies are captured within the fig-8 pattern, but also how empty the nulls are.
Thanks for bringing it up.

Originally Posted by David Rick

I wouldn't expect that to be a problem with a 4050. Plus you see them all the time in Steve Remote's channel lists!

Fantastic

Originally Posted by David Rick

My own issue with the 4050 has been that I don't really like the way it sounds on room ambience when you're using it as the Side mic in a M/S arrangement. Way too colored for my taste, so I eventually sold mine. But the sax player I sold it to went gaga over it.

That's interesting. Most people report that the 4050 is very uncolored -- but maybe they were using omni or cardiod. Perhaps, the coloring only shows in fig-8?

Thanks for your input.

[David Rick]

For my purpose, I want to know that if the player moves off axis a bit (as expected....damn fiddlers ) that I will get only a change in amplitude, not a change in frequency response. The change in amplitude can be addressed via compression, the change in frequency response will be an EQ hassle.

Please take a look at the spec in the link that I provided in my original post. You'll see that the polar pattern shows that the response is even across all frequencies in the figure-8 pattern, not so for cardiod and omni. My question to the forum is whether anyone can confirm this information, or whether AT is cheating the graphs.

OK, I looked. I agree they drew only one polar curve, but I don't really believe it. I don't have my 4050 anymore, but I remember once using it to record a vocalist who wanted to dance while singing and I ended up using a SDC (AKG C460) instead. But it depends on how far away you're putting the mic how far off axis the fiddler is going to get.

Fiddlers... don't get me started! Actually, I think a figure-8 overhead is a really great technique for a fiddler on stage, provided the stage has a fly loft. (You don't want to try it in a club with a low ceiling.) If you're not fighting a lot of on-stage volume, use a tall stand. The farther away you put the mic, the less obnoxious the sound. Plus, the larger the area the player can dance around it without getting too far off axis. If you must close-mic, ditch the condenser mic and use a ribbon. I'm very partial to Beyer M130's and M160's in this application.

Two tricks:

• Most fiddlers can give you a DI output. Use that in the monitors.
• Put a SM-58 on a gooseneck right over the bridge. Pull the cable over to your stage box, but don't plug it in! The purpose of this mic is simply to keep the fiddler in one place. That way, they'll stay on-axis of your 4050.

That's interesting. Most people report that the 4050 is very uncolored -- but maybe they were using omni or cardiod. Perhaps, the coloring only shows in fig-8?

It is quite uncolored -- on axis. But what I cared about was the random-incidence frequency response. They don't publish that, of course. In my rather radical M/S applications (10-15 dB boost on the side mic), I found that I prefered the figure-eight pattern of an AKG 414. Years ago, I read that the 414 has a flatter high frequency response because they turn it into an omni up high.

Other figure-eights that I routinely use:

Rode NT-2A: Good nulls, but wonky random-incidence curve. Can be phasey sounding on orchestral strings, or maybe that was just all the EQ I had to use.

Sennheiser MKH-800. Holy sh^t this is a great mic! The best thing I've ever used for Hamasaki-style ambience pickup.

David L. Rick
Seventh String Recording