Digital console for live work

[Remoteness]

Originally Posted by waveterm

I hear you !

Ah.....yes. And everybody can be a star !

If I had a dollar for every useless wannabee I´ve mixed, I´d buy a Soundcraft 200B

WT - Can I get a bit of talent in the PA please !!

WT

You see, that's the thing.
I made an active choice not to ever mix (work with) "useless wannabees".

I must say, the only useless wannabees I would ever consider working with (for) are friends that still think they can play.

For the most part I kept to that promise I made to myself, but every now and then one slips in and makes it passed my fingers.


...and, I have use an alias for those gigs.

[bishopthomas]

Originally Posted by Roland

I am a little surprised that we haven't already got the stage box with virtual control via tablet or tablet with fader pack system.

Yamaha Studio Manager. I use it all the time with an LS9 and it works great. Wireless control via Ethernet hub. I used that setup yesterday in the rain and was able to keep the console on the covered stage. I will be taking an LS9 on tour soon, keeping it on stage for monitors (IEM's and wedges) and mixing on the tablet at FOH.

[Remoteness]

Originally Posted by bishopthomas

...I will be taking an LS9 on tour soon, keeping it on stage for monitors (IEM's and wedges) and mixing on the tablet at FOH.

That's freakin' awesome!

[Roland]

Originally Posted by bishopthomas

Yamaha Studio Manager. I use it all the time with an LS9 and it works great. Wireless control via Ethernet hub. I used that setup yesterday in the rain and was able to keep the console on the covered stage. I will be taking an LS9 on tour soon, keeping it on stage for monitors (IEM's and wedges) and mixing on the tablet at FOH.

I appreciate what you are saying, and am aware that this can be done with both the LS9 and the M7cl, but, I am talking about taking it one step further where the console is only a simple controller with a stage box. Potentially this would reduce the manufacture cost, with many digital consoles hovering around the 50 -70,000 pound mark, which in my personal view is difficult to justify for many sound businesses outside of the major broadcasters.

There was a post in a previous thread where someone pointed out that digital consoles depreciated terribly in comparison with other gear. IMHO the price of most digital consoles are greatly inflated, I would as an example point to things like the M7 which sells for considerably less than it's supposed competitors and the fact that one of the consoles that is consistently mentioned for it's sound quality is within it's frame a basic PC run from a controller.

I do take on-board the comment that waveterm made about access to controlling feedback issues on such a system, however, I would argue that that is already potentially an issue with many of the digital desk systems out there already.

Regards


Roland

[fifthcircle]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

I totally feel that scenario...
And, it hurts really bad.

BUT, REMEMBER THIS!

We're living the iPod generation.
What does hi-fidelity have to do with it?

Fortunately, in my world, Fidelity is everything. I'm happy for that and I wouldn't have it any other way. One of my big classical festivals has been using a PM5D for the mix and I generally like it just fine. However, I run all microphones through high-end preamps to run out at line level to the console. Also, it means that I'm not relying as much on the Yamaha pres. Last year's pile of pres included Millennia, Grace, Vac Rac, A Designs, DAV, API and Focusrite. That plus clocking the console with a Big Ben and a great sounding set of speakers (Sound Image/Audio Composite G2) made for some mighty fine sound.

Now that being said, for next year's deal, I'm hoping to improve the sound still. There are a number of improvements I have in mind, but one of the big ones will be console choice.

Thinking I'll be flying up to San Francisco for the day on Friday to see what's cool up at AES. Hopefully I'll get a chance to kick some tires and get meaningful demos on some of these boards.

--Ben

[Loud Noises]

Pretty much all thats been said about it, has been said already. However I'll ad in my experiences. I've used both the PM5d and the Venue. Most of my experience is with Yamaha digitals, I own one (01v96), spent considerable time on several others, I know the layout, the interface and I generally find it easy to use. I understand that some people find these boards a pain in the ass to program, but anybody looking to spend the money to rent or even buy one probably has enough technical ability to pick it up fairly quick. In fact these boards are often rented out for theatrical work, so I don't really know why anybody would think you couldn't rent them out. I agree that they don't sound the best, but a couple of rack cases makes a great perch for the board and you can load them with a few channels of pre for the really important stuff like leading vocals. It's not so much a handicap as it's made out to be in my opinion, you just really have to get to know this board to make it work. It's also fairly sturdy, and takes average use to minor abuse well.
The Venue did sound better in my opinion, and it was a breeze to program. This thing was so easy, I felt like I could problem this thing drunk, half asleep, and suffering from a mild case of pneumatic infectious trisomy 21 (thats contact ******ation, from being around too many stupid people). Having the selection of plugins makes it easy to find solutions to problems and saves time. It's also nice not having to pull a ton of multi back to the FOH, since all you have is a few lines of coax. However, I absolutely HATE the feel of the control surface, particularly the faders. They have an almost "dj mixer" feel to them, and the encoders are not at all intuitive like the Yamaha. It doesn't seem to be as road worthy either, during the last show we had to replace some faders and that is something I've never had to do with any Yamaha. It's also had some bugs in the software, one being that it tends randomly reset your gain at the most inconvenient times. If you are engineering through allot of scene changes (such as in theater or musicals) I suggest getting a foot switch to advance to the next scene, because the button is not in the best location. Minor problem, fortunately it is very easy to work around.

[huub]

'Kay, however, I do hear from 'people' that 'word on the street' is that the digidesign venue is unreliable..

what's all your opinions?

[Jim vanBergen]

Originally Posted by huub

'Kay, however, I do hear from 'people' that 'word on the street' is that the digidesign venue is unreliable..

what's all your opinions?

Any Digi software version 2.1 or later for a Venue or Profile Digi mixer has a significantly better sound than the earlier versions. I used Venues several times and hated them, then I worked on Kenny Rogers last year when v 2.1 came out and I was blown away. We bought a Profile for a specific client and while they same several serious problems initially, the desk ended up doing a good job and sounding solid. I'm not so crazy about them, it's NOT my favorite desk, but it really is a good option in the under $100k range of consoles.

So- short version, used to hate it, now it sounds pretty good, and works well. It's not a broadcast console for studio use, it's also no theatrical desk as far as complex automation, but it's got a good following and is easy to use for rock/pop shows and especially for shows that feature hit songs with a lot of protools tracking.

Hope this helps.

JvB

[Denny McNerney]

Originally Posted by nickynicknick

The Digidesign console is not great at all...PM5D is better, although I don't think it sounds that great...probably the one you should get...like everyone is saying it's the standard for now....you'll regret Digidesign.

Nick

i totally disagree. the digi consoles (venue and profile) are SO much better in terms of fidelity than the yamaha consoles. the "standard " comment is because of the yamaha marketing machine being so strong. i have done shows on both... the digidesign consoles are leaps and bounds ahead of the yamaha. there are also some revolutionary features (like virtual soundcheck, w/ a pt rig) that make the digidesign consoles the only ones i'd consider buying.

regret digidesign? hmmm... well, clair brothers, a modest sound reinforcement company, owns over a hundred of the digidesign consoles (from what i'm told).

[Jim vanBergen]

Originally Posted by Denny McNerney

regret digidesign? hmmm... well, clair brothers, a modest sound reinforcement company, owns over a hundred of the digidesign consoles (from what i'm told).

Over 100? Wow... I know that they have bought heavily into the digi consoles, but I didn't think they had more than 50 tours out ever... I'll have to ask when I see some of their guys.

I do agree the new software sounds better than the PM5D, both RH and standard. I hear a new version is coming out at AES (I know, what a shock, as everything turns over within 3 years at digi). if anyone sees it, let me know? I was supposed to go teach a seminar...got stuck home in NYC doing broadcasts instead.