Need recomendation for mic splitter.

[rmx16]

I have four of these guys. Pricey but worth it

http://www.radialeng.com/di-js3-js2.htm

Rob

[Jim vanBergen]

I like the Radial, but if your main gig is recording, I'd INVEST. If you need this stuff rarely, then yes a couple of those boxes are the way to go, this is a better choice, better than a Y-cable XLR with a barrel xformer on one end.

Next step up: the Radial 8ox is a better approach, which you will use but can also expand in a way that you will appreciate, without having to bump up to the XTA DS800 or similar active 8ch splitter. If you are building a remote system or business, rack mounted split systems make sense. Mine is currently a Wireworks 3-way split; I also rent 27-pr Jensen, 56-pr Whirlwind, and often these days, digital/fiber optic systems. This may be overkill, but if youre investing, you have to consider your options.

Hope these thoughts help!

JvB

[nathanvacha]

theoretically, if one wanted to know...

what jensen (or comparable brand) transformers would be used in a mic split?

if one... say... wanted to hook up a few channels of split on their own, in a snake that is already contained within rack mounted case...

[Jim vanBergen]

Have a look at this:

http://www.jensen-transformers.com/mic_sp.html

Hope it helps!

JvB

Originally Posted by nathanvacha

theoretically, if one wanted to know...

what jensen (or comparable brand) transformers would be used in a mic split?

if one... say... wanted to hook up a few channels of split on their own, in a snake that is already contained within rack mounted case...

[Barnabas]

Can you rent a splitter? Check with the big sound companies in the area.

[mpw]

Horizon MS4 - 4 channel microphone splitter $170
Reasonable price, VERY durable, 19" x 1U size.

[Gilliland]

Originally Posted by mpw

Horizon MS4 - 4 channel microphone splitter $170
Reasonable price, VERY durable, 19" x 1U size.

If price is an issue (as it always is for me), you can do a lot better than $170. I bought this one recently: Mic Splitter and have found it to be of very good quality. If you're looking for name-brand transformers, look elsewhere. But I've puchased quite a few products from Audiopile at this point, and so far I've not been disappointed in a single one of them - splitters, DIs, cables, raw cable parts, etc. I have no connection with them except as a customer.

I get the idea from this thread that the original poster is not interested in a budget product, so I haven't brought this up until now.

[huub]

Although I have found that low quality transformers thend to audibly degrade the signal..
And I'm not some purist.. I mix audio for TV for chrissake!

[Jim vanBergen]

That EWI splitter is SUPER cheap...the entire 4 channel rack mounted unit costs less than a pair of raw Jensen or Lundahl xformers! But the specs...<1% THD at 0dBU 20Hz-20KHz, and <1% THD from 50Hz-20kHz at +8dBU... YIKES!

So...seeing the specs, It's not what I would WANT to use, but in a pinch, it's better than nothing, and being able to buy 24 channels of xformer split for approx $600 is pretty amazing. The first 48ch splitter (box only, no cables or tails included) I ever bought cost over $6k in comparison!

But I personally want transformers of quality. Steve Remote has a famous quote: and this is loosely quoted at best: "Buy the best best transformers you can afford to buy. You never know when you'll be the one using them!"

If I had no $$ but needed a split, this EWI might be a great way to go. Sonically they might leave something to be desired (I would not want to run a bass or kick drum thru them for sure) but it's better than a Y cable!

JvB

[Ken K]

Thanks for the help. It's great to have so many experienced folks offer their opinions.

Jim vanBergen wrote: "the Radial 8ox is a better approach"

Nobody seems to have the Radial 8ox. Any ideas where to get one. I'm going to need something in a couple of weeks.

Ken

[Jim vanBergen]

You looking for rental or purchase? I assume ANY Radial dealer could get one for you...did you try places like Full Compass or Sweetwater? Just curious...
hope this helps, Bro-

JvB

Originally Posted by Ken K

Thanks for the help. It's great to have so many experienced folks offer their opinions.

Jim vanBergen wrote: "the Radial 8ox is a better approach"

Nobody seems to have the Radial 8ox. Any ideas where to get one. I'm going to need something in a couple of weeks.

Ken

[Gilliland]

Originally Posted by Jim vanBergen

That EWI splitter is SUPER cheap...the entire 4 channel rack mounted unit costs less than a pair of raw Jensen or Lundahl xformers! But the specs...<1% THD at 0dBU 20Hz-20KHz, and <1% THD from 50Hz-20kHz at +8dBU... YIKES!

If I had no $$ but needed a split, this EWI might be a great way to go. Sonically they might leave something to be desired (I would not want to run a bass or kick drum thru them for sure) but it's better than a Y cable!

I tend to agree, cheap transformers can cause some real audio trouble. And to be honest, I haven't really put these to the test yet, so I can't really give a full report on their quality or lack thereof. I've passed some signals through them cleanly, but nothing that's really going to drive them into their danger zones.

But I have used several EWI direct boxes, both passive and active, and I'm quite surprised and pleased at their excellence. I presume that the DIs and splitters use transformers of comparable quality. In fact, that $50 active DI that they sell has proven itself again and again for me, even on electric bass.

I'm hoping that the splitters will prove themselves as well. The specs do sound promising, but it may be a month or more before I actually get to use these in the real world.

Now that I look back at your note, I'm not sure whether you consider the specs to be promising or not. Certainly 1%THD is a pretty nasty spec, but don't overlook the fact that it was quoted for a signal level that is WAY above anything that you're likely to pass through a mic splitter. At normal mic levels, these transformers may be quite clean throughout the audio range. I'll know more when I actually put them to work.

[Jim vanBergen]

Originally Posted by Gilliland

Now that I look back at your note, I'm not sure whether you consider the specs to be promising or not. Certainly 1%THD is a pretty nasty spec, but don't overlook the fact that it was quoted for a signal level that is WAY above anything that you're likely to pass through a mic splitter. At normal mic levels, these transformers may be quite clean throughout the audio range. I'll know more when I actually put them to work.

Just to clarify, I'm worried how signals like kick, bass, and line-level (any show NOT use these? Sometimes, but 80% of the artists I work with have track of some kind, from click to entire shows on PT!) will perform on these specs. Yes, the split is traditionally for mic level but I constantly have line level audio and some funky return happening back down from either monitors or truck side to bang in across the transformer. Not a great practice, but it worries me about the integrity of the signal. That's all!

[Gilliland]

Originally Posted by Jim vanBergen

Just to clarify, I'm worried how signals like kick, bass, and line-level (any show NOT use these? Sometimes, but 80% of the artists I work with have track of some kind, from click to entire shows on PT!) will perform on these specs. Yes, the split is traditionally for mic level but I constantly have line level audio and some funky return happening back down from either monitors or truck side to bang in across the transformer. Not a great practice, but it worries me about the integrity of the signal. That's all!

Obviously, I work in very different environments than you do - I literally NEVER pass line levels through a splitter like this. But just for comparisons sake, take a look at the specs on a comparable Jensen mic-split transformer. The test points aren't identical, so you can't compare them identically, but it's pretty easy to see that they are in the same ballpark. Look at the second page here: http://www.jensen-transformers.com/datashts/mbd.pdf

Both EWI and Jensen claim 20-20K performance with less than 1%THD at 0dBu. The Jensen claims that their "typical" unit will handle +2dBu, but state that 0dBu is their "minimum". EWI doesn't give a "typical" spec, but their "minimum" is the same.

I'm certainly not about to suggest that the asian transformer is the peer of the Jensen - that's highly unlikely. But it's equally clear that no matter which one you use, you're pushing your luck if you send line level signals through them with significant activity in the bottom octave or two.

[Jimbo]

That EWI looks impressive (for the money). Two isolated outputs!

I might just go for one, and install my own Jensen trannies.

This is a little disturbing, though (from the Audiopile site): " the FXLR input panel jacks are constructed with spiral spring contact points with no locking device other than the solid fit of the spiral spring contacts."

Some bozo kicks the stage snake, and the inputs to the splitter fall out

Gilliland, would you mind opening up one of your units, and posting a picture of the internals?

[mrufino1]

I have 2 of the ewi splitters, they haven't given me any problems and there has definitely not been a problem with cables coming out. I am much more confident in these than the y cables I had. If you need splitters only rarely these would probably do well for you. If you do remote recording every day on a very high level these probably are not for you, but as I said, I use them somewhat often and have had no issues.

[nathanvacha]

i second that... can either of you post a pic of the inside?

[markhan]

Resurrecting the thread - I want a high quality splitter to compare preamps while recording. Has anyone tried the Whirlwind SPLITTER-L (SP1X3LUNT) with a Lundahl transformer? It's priced similarly to the Radial JS3 with the Jensen transformer.

Mark

[starspeedr]

The Posthorn Recordings booth at AES this year (which deals in high end classical stuff--they are my Schoeps dealer) was selling these: Cable Techniques - Xtragood Microphone Splitters -- I was actually speaking with Jerry Bruck (Posthorn owner) about the product this morning, since I am looking at purchasing some as well. I think the single-channel split goes for $199 and the stereo (5-pin) split goes for $299. Good price for a high quality splitter. I will paste the specs below:

Ground lift with True Isolation
20 Hz – 20 kHz +/- .05 dB
THD .005% maximum @ 1 kHz, -10 dB
Premium quality custom, shielded transformer
Chassis screw-mounted Neutrik XLR connectors with gold pins
Common Mode Rejection: 130 dB
Small footprint at only 4.5” x 2.5” x 1.5”, Weighs 10.1 ounces

[Indrestudios]

Thumbs up on the Radial 8ox box. We assembled a stage box with 6 of them - see picture. I'm not a transformer snob, but I can definitely hear the difference over entry level boxes. Each channel also has a 20db pad (on the iso side) that has come in handy with super hot line level signals.

We really campaign to be "first-in-line" on stage, and since the switch to Radial I have had very little resistance from system techs or FOH guys.

-MC

[Syncamorea]

This has me leaning towards the Radial with Jensens splitter for the 8 most important channels and then pick up an ART S8 3 Way for the other 8 channels. Anyone here used the S8 3 way lately?

[daveg62]

I just finished building my own 16 channel and I couldn't be happier with how it turned out. All the parts were from redco audio and the transformers are edcor wsm600/600, great company to deal with btw. I swear I can't hear any difference between the direct outs and isolated outs. It sounds great! Pretty sure total cost was <$500

[Remoteness]

The satisfaction of building something yourself is awesome.
It's an outstanding feeling when it works well and sounds great.
Congrats!

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by daveg62

I just finished building my own 16 channel and I couldn't be happier with how it turned out. All the parts were from redco audio and the transformers are edcor wsm600/600, great company to deal with btw. I swear I can't hear any difference between the direct outs and isolated outs. It sounds great! Pretty sure total cost was <$500

And it also looks nice Dave!

[andrewh]

Originally Posted by daveg62

I just finished building my own 16 channel and I couldn't be happier with how it turned out. All the parts were from redco audio and the transformers are edcor wsm600/600, great company to deal with btw. I swear I can't hear any difference between the direct outs and isolated outs. It sounds great! Pretty sure total cost was <$500

This thing looks great! Couple of questions:

1) How did you mount the transformers to the box?

2) How did you drill the holes for the ground lift switches?

3) Are the labels stickers, or something else?

4) What wiring did you use inside the stage box between the connectors and the transformers?

5) Do you have any audio comparisons between the direct out and those Edcor xfmr outputs?

6) How much time did the build take?

[daveg62]

Originally Posted by andrewh

This thing looks great! Couple of questions:

1) How did you mount the transformers to the box?
Because of the design of the box, i didn't mount the transformers to the box. Thinking about it, instead I mounted them all to a metal plate, did all the wiring and then just bolted the plate inside the box with 4 screws and nuts. That made wiring and soldering easier.

2) How did you drill the holes for the ground lift switches? I used very small switches, found them on ebay. I don't remember the size, but just used a standard drill bit.

3) Are the labels stickers, or something else? I have access to a labeler where i work, so they are just sticker labels.

4) What wiring did you use inside the stage box between the connectors and the transformers? I used twisted pair wire, probably 20 or 22 gauge. I just twisted it all by hand.

5) Do you have any audio comparisons between the direct out and those Edcor xfmr outputs? No sorry i do not

6) How much time did the build take?
It actually took a lot longer than I expected. There is quite a bit of work, wiring, soldering that went into this. There is not much room to work in the small box. Wasn't as easy as I thought it would be.

[Nadege]

Hello daveg62

could you tell me how you build your mic splitter ? Which schematic/ layout did you use ? Are you happy with the results ?

Thanks

Cheers

[boojum]

Originally Posted by daveg62

I just finished building my own 16 channel and I couldn't be happier with how it turned out. All the parts were from redco audio and the transformers are edcor wsm600/600, great company to deal with btw. I swear I can't hear any difference between the direct outs and isolated outs. It sounds great! Pretty sure total cost was <$500

Nice.

[Jimbo]

Originally Posted by daveg62

I just finished building my own 16 channel and I couldn't be happier with how it turned out. All the parts were from redco audio and the transformers are edcor wsm600/600, great company to deal with btw. I swear I can't hear any difference between the direct outs and isolated outs. It sounds great! Pretty sure total cost was <$500

That model transformer is listed as a line level transformer:
EDCOR Electronics Corporation. WSM600/600

Am I getting this wrong? Perhaps, line level doesn't matter.

Can someone chime in on the effects of using an open frame transformer in a splitter box? I'm curious whether shielding is required in a box full of only passive components. It seems that the outer case (heavy duty steel) would provide enough shielding.

Thanks.