The Skinny on Skinny 8-track recorders?

[wshaw]

Hi all--

For my portable rig, it would be great to find a 1 or 2 space 8-track 24-bit recorder.

Anybody know of one?

Why oh why are standalones all built to the old 3-space ADAT form factor? If you look inside standalones, there's lots and lots of seemingly-unnecessary empty airspace.

How about a recorder that has the virtues of standalone recorders (stability & simple operation), PLUS real portability?

A high quality 8-track kit that fit in a 3 or 4 space case (eg, 1 for mic pres, 1 for A/D, 1 or 2 for the recorder) would be a great convenience. Among other things, you could leave the interconnects in place. It'd be much quicker and easier to set up and get rolling than a laptop system, and even if it was limited to 8 tracks, you can do an awful lot with that.

Anybody?

[Baithak]

Originally Posted by wshaw

Hi all--

For my portable rig, it would be great to find a 1 or 2 space 8-track 24-bit recorder.

Anybody know of one?

Anybody?

Does it have to be 1 or 2 rack spaces?? Can it be smaller? How about if it fit comforably in your shirt pocket?

Check out SONOSAX Audio equipment manufacturer and the minr82 link. Very pro recorder but needs 8 AES digital in signal. Only has 2 analog inputs but on the other hand can comfortably handle 10 tracks (8 + 2 mix down on CF card).

Good luck.

Baithak

[Angus]

Actually, the MINIR82 takes 4 chs analog in: 2 mic with phantom power using Binder connectors and two unbalanced, adjustable line ins on 1/8 inch minijack. These are in addition to the 8 AES inputs. They've also dropped the price recently.

Angus

[Angus]

That is to say, max 8 input channels. Of these, up to 4 may be analog.

Angus

[LapTop006]

I'd love to see a tiny MADI recorder. The data rate is less then 10MB/sec so it could easily stream to a laptop drive or run through firewire.

[wshaw]

Hi--

Thanks for the ref to Sonosax. It's an interesting device and probably sounds really great, but I must say it seems a bit odd.

An 8-plus multitracker with multiple digital ins implies a lot of outboard gear (mics, stabds, pres, converters, etc), so the advanatage of its miniature size is a bit elusive, as far as I can see.

Plus, it's REALLY pricy ($4500).

Any other ideas?

[Baithak]

Originally Posted by wshaw

Hi--

An 8-plus multitracker with multiple digital ins implies a lot of outboard gear (mics, stabds, pres, converters, etc), so the advanatage of its miniature size is a bit elusive, as far as I can see.

Plus, it's REALLY pricy ($4500).

Any other ideas?

OK. I will take one more shot :

1. DV824 DV824 DVD Multitrack Recorder is a 2U product. It is also REALLY pricey about 6000USD but has converters so you can get away with just an analog front end. (BTW what is your budget?) but fits the 2U requirement and is a bit more conventional. I would never buy it because it records only to DVD-Ram and can only do four tracks at 96/24.

2. Going back to the Sonosax, marrying it with something like the Cranesong Spider (which is mic pres, mixer and 10 converters in a 4U unit) you have a killer 8 channel rig. Rock solid in every way and as high end as it gets and portable too.

3. For almost the same cost as above, you can get one Sounddevices 442 mixer and two 744 recorders. Each is 4 tracks but can be linked quite simply for eight track operation. Each recorder only has 2 mic-pres so the 442 would supply the other four you would need. The entire rig would easily fit in a overnight suitcase, and another similar one for mics/cables. Plus the entire rig can operate on batteries. Sound Devices, LLC | Professional, Portable Audio Products

4. For a bit less than above you can go for Zaxcom's Deva IV. This has the added advantage of a built-in DVD burner to archive your session after you are done.

5. Finally, at the top of the heap, for a lot more, is Aeton's Cantar. An amazing machine with pretty much everything you would want for 8 track recording.

Good luck,
Baithak

[wshaw]

I guess what I'm picturing is a simple standalone recorder of the sort that Alesis, Tascam, Mackie and Fostex make (or made), but squished down into a more compact, efficient shape.

It shouldn't have to be terribly expensive, since those boxes aren't. And it wouldn't need comprehensive capabilities--no converters or analogue ins, no mic pres--just a stable 8 channel "bit bucket" with digital i/o (and maybe a headphone circuit).

[niquest]

You might want to check rosendahl's bonsai drive. I'm saving up for one as a backup recorder. It can do video which can come in handy, too.

[wshaw]

Never heard of this device before. Very interesting.

But it is, for my purposes, like the Sonosax box -- 1) too small to be rackmountable, yet requires outboard gear and is therefore more cumbersome than a rackmounted device would be, and 2) pricy (half the Sonosax, but still $2k).

I sure am learning about different gear, tho. . .

Thanks!!!

[Angus]

I'm not sure there is anything available that suits all your requirements:
1) 8 channels
2) easily portable
3) fairly inexpensive

You might consult the following Trew Audio link for a chart comparing major features of several all-in-one recorders:

http://www.trewaudio.com/download/no...comp_chart.pdf

The HHB Portadrive fits requirements 1 and 2 (although I think it is only 6 ch analog in) but not 3. I've seen them on eBay for about 6K.
The Fostex PD6 might be worth a look. Never used one myself but they are somewhat cheaper than the HHB.

I use the Sonosax mostly with the 8ch AES inputs as a backup from external converters. It's certainly alot easier to cart around than any of the other boxes that will simply record 8 channels. I agree that something like a Spider with the MINIR82 would be a terrific multi-channel location rig and that it would be probably somewhat higher quality than most of the all-in-one boxes but you'd still be well over 10k. I'm sure that within a couple of years simple multi-channel digital recorders will be a dime a dozen. The bit-bucket function to HD or flash memory is ultimately pretty straighforward technology. Still need a good multi-ch analog front end, though. I'm looking forward to seeing the new Nagra but it ain't going to be cheap.

Angus

[minus-sounds.com]

Originally Posted by wshaw

...-- 1) too small to be rackmountable, ...

Actually the rack mount kit (2U) takes a removable disk too and it costs about 450-500 eyros

[wshaw]

The weird thing is that there are MANY moderately-priced 8-track standalones on the market. They're all 3 rack spaces, though, like the old ADATs.

Any theories why they're still built to that size? If you look inside of them, there's a great deal of unused cubic space, and with 1 space/8 mic-pre strips on the market, you'd think someone would be building something that would mate with them easily and conveniently. I'd guess there'd be a substantila amount of interest in a 1-space, 8 track 24-bit recorder.

[David Spearritt]

Originally Posted by wshaw

For my portable rig, it would be great to find a 1 or 2 space 8-track 24-bit recorder.

I think the answer is here. Portable means not carrying a rack case. Hence the over the shoulder design of the SD, Nagra, Aaton, Deva and all the other small recorders. None of them have rack ears.

If you have rack space, then its not really portable and you will need accommodate one of the many 3 RU recorders.

[wshaw]

Not to play with language or anything, but to my mind a small device, which requires lots of outboard gear that has to be patched together in the field before use, then has to be broken down to be moved again, is LESS portable than that same amount of gear in a rack case, for whch all you need is an alectrical outlet and some mic cables.

I know rack cases are bulky, but speaking as a drummer, they are definitely NOT the opposite of "portable" (a 4-space is a lot smaller than, say, a bass drum). To me, a rig in a 4-space case that can be put to work right away is more portable than a bunch of separate devices that have to be unpacked & patched together before the rig is ready for use.

[David Spearritt]

My definition of portable is "over the shoulder" soft bag gear. It is not rack cases. I record a lot of live concerts with up to 4 channels, with "over the shoulder" gear that I can carry on public transport or a bicycle if need be. This is portability. A lot of inner city venues have little or no parking now, and certainly no loading docks.

[wshaw]

That's certainly a legit definition of "portable."

But with 8 tracks and a little luck, you can do separate tracks for every instrument and voice in a medium-sized ensemble, plus several tracks for stereo drum OH and BD pickup, or for room mics. Can't do that with 4 tracks (not knocking 4 tracks tho--it can work very well too)

I can carry a 4-space case and a bag of mics and cables on the subway. That's portable enough to be "portable," though admittedly not to the same standard as your shoulder-bag setup.

[esaias]

what about a subnotebook/tablet pc with audio optimized Linux and some audiointerface of your choice.

I'd like to have portable multitracker but really can't afford a real one (SD 744t on my mind) right now so I've been thinking something like X60 tablet and some battery operated interface and a custom made (mom?) "portabrace" for them.

-Tomi

[David Spearritt]

what about a subnotebook/tablet pc with audio optimized Linux and some audiointerface of your choice.

Yes, but what's with the "Linux" bit. We're talking pro audio here, ie recording a concert for money.

[esaias]

ahem

Otari 48-Channel Digital Audio Disk Recorder DR-100

:P

-Tomi


p.s. I know what you mean, I believe in real hardware too. (but Linux is good, you can build a system with it which looks there is no tradiotinal computer present at all and skilled Linux guy can build you a very rugged enviroment)

[wshaw]

Fostex makes a 2U, 8-track recorder, built around a DVD burner. It records up to 24/48. Costs over 5 grand.

WTF????

[Angus]

Above mentioned DV824. Also records at 24/96 but only 4 chs. I see one currently on eBay but selling for what a new one costs. Even if you don't need 96k capability you will still need pres.

Angus

[wshaw]

Of course, there is the roland vsr-880--a 2U mountable version of their standalone workstation. 24 bits, 8 channels. If you can find one used, if you can deal with roland gear, if can deal with the limited HD capacity, and if you can deal with using one of their overpriced rbus-to-adat converter boxes. It'll work, I guess.

[wshaw]

How hard, really, would it be throw together a set of ADAT I/O, a hard drive, some kind of simple operating system and a power supply--in a 1U box?

I have no idea.

Anyone?

PS--if anyone wants to try building such a device, let me know, and we'll talk . . .

[esaias]

Originally Posted by wshaw

How hard, really, would it be throw together a set of ADAT I/O, a hard drive, some kind of simple operating system and a power supply--in a 1U box?

I have no idea.

Anyone?

PS--if anyone wants to try building such a device, let me know, and we'll talk . . .

I could be done, you could use 1u pc (or build one into 1u custom chassis etc.) and have linux build and software of your liking in it.

for example:
RME: Downloads

and you could possibly configure it so that the whole system could operated via small LCD and few buttons and maybe have MIDI control too etc. Hey why I am not building this right now? :D

Damn, this sound too good, maybe it is time for new thread.

-Tomi

[esaias]

BTW.

eBay: Roland VSR 880 (Artikel 270119779323 endet 19.05.07 15:24:18 MESZ)

looks like it could be a cheap deal.

-Tomi

[wshaw]

Tomi--

If you're serious about putting a 1U 8-track recorder together, let's talk.

On a larger level, I think you could make some money with a box like that . . .

[esaias]

Originally Posted by wshaw

Tomi--

If you're serious about putting a 1U 8-track recorder together, let's talk.

On a larger level, I think you could make some money with a box like that . . .

I already tried talk some of my geeky friends in to such project but so far no-one has been too keen about the idea (the real product), dang. But I'll guess we'll make a concept of some sort, I need to feed the little invetor in me.

-Tomi