Lavry mic pre - samples

[ISedlacek]

Yesterday I met Dan Lavry (and also Priscilla) at AES Vienna and it was really very nice meeting. I spent more than one hour in very nice talk with Dan (not only on digital topics). I expected a "strict scientist" and was very surprised that in reality he is very gentle, warm and joyful person ... We enjoyed talking about everything from music to traveling ...

Anyway, a friend of mine got a Lavry mic pre module. I was very quite curious and therefore snatched it from him and tried a bit Since many people asked about this preamp and almost no one tried I thought it could be interesting to share my short limited test.

The preamp modules occupy two slots in the Lavry Blue rack. There is a dynamic/ribbon/condenser switch between, while the condenser position also supplies phantom power. The gain is set "digitally" from 21 to 70 dB with -10dB pad option.

To my ears this preamp is really what it claims to be: CLEAN. Amen. Clean in a way of a simple naked truth. No flattering, no poetry, no additional euphonic dimensions. Which may be sometimes welcome, sometimes not ...

I did not have time to much testing, here are just three limited imperfect and unscientific bits. For a direct comparison I used Flamingo, but in the new CLEAN mode (not the standard Flamingo sound). You can maybe notice that Flamingo sounds still a bit different than Lavry even in this clean mode (soundstage, gentle "sound poetry"). Lavry preamp is undoubtedly very high quality and very cost effective preamp in the realm of totally clean. Yet, for my own music and enjoyment, the mysterious Crane bird may be preferable ...

Flute:

Lavry

Flamingo

Monochord:

Lavry

Flamingo

Small drum:

Lavry

Flamingo

BTW - it si quite fascinating how the electric circuits and art of their individual design make the same sources sound in such various ways (I don´t mean only these two preamps)

[jdjustice]

thanks for posting these, Ivo.
JSYK, the first link for the Lavry Flute sample is actually the drum sample.

so you have the new Flamingo with the CLEAN switch/mode?
are these shipping now and is the price the same?
you have really brought the Flamingo to my attention where i had not noticed it so much in the past.....

and i am VERY glad to finally hear some samples of the Lavry preamplifiers. thumbsup
if i ever take the plunge and buy a Lavry Blue chassis i will make sure to think about leaving 2 slots free for those preamps!


cheers.
~j.d.

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by jdjustice

thanks for posting these, Ivo.
JSYK, the first link for the Lavry Flute sample is actually the drum sample.

thanks, corrected ...

Originally Posted by jdjustice

so you have the new Flamingo with the CLEAN switch/mode?
are these shipping now and is the price the same?
you have really brought the Flamingo to my attention where i had not noticed it so much in the past.....
cheers.
~j.d.

Yes, not only CLEAN but also more COLOURED than the standard Flamingo mode. Yes, it is shipping and I think the price should be the same as the old model ...

[matucha]

the drums are fatter with flamingo

flute terribly clips with flamingo on the right channel... it is really hard to focus on the rest of the sound, but lavry sounds a bit smaller here

the monochord is totally different, here I prefer flamingo big way, because the way the transient sound with lavry is strange, doesn't feel "expensive"


I could be interesting to hear it with ribbon in the ribbon mode. I'm sure this pre has it's uses and I can't stop thinking about DAV pre when I hear lavry pre. Feels like a same class to me.

Mind you that I'm commenting the samples I hear and it is not my personal expirience with these pieces.

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by matucha

flute terribly clips with flamingo on the right channel... it is really hard to focus on the rest of the sound, but lavry sounds a bit smaller here

OK, it was just on the few highest tones, not overall, the gain was set too high on Flamingo for the unexpected high loud flute tones (while playing I had it behind me so I could not see what´s going on). Anyway, I recorded the flute again right now on both preamps and replaced the samples. Should be better now ...

Originally Posted by matucha

the drums are fatter with flamingo

And that was still only the cleanest mode ...

Originally Posted by matucha

I'm sure this pre has it's uses and I can't stop thinking about DAV pre when I hear lavry pre. Feels like a same class to me.

I think DAV sounds quite different. I will play few tones on both to hear the difference ..

[matucha]

that would be interesting

[chrissugar]

Thank you Ivo for the samples.
I had for testing the Lavry mic pre for a while. I found this preamp extremely clean and very good for minimalist (two microphone) classical music recording.

To make a relevant AB test it is very complicated so I can understand why you did it this way. I mean different takes. Each take sounds different because they are played slightly different.
Sincerely without knowing the original acoustic of the space where you recorded the samples, without knowing how the instrument sound originally, and how the mics were positioned it is hard to tell which one is closer to the original.
In this situation it is imposible to give an objective answer which pre is more transparent. Because all the unknown factors involved the answer is mostly a subjective one based on what sound "better", more detailed, more musical.

Based on your samples I would choose the Lavry preamp (lavlavdrum.wav and lavlavmon.wav)
I'm very curious how Fred's preamp compare to the Lavry.

chrissugar

[Yannick]

For me the difference between the two is big enough to hear through the different takes issue.

Lavry wins hands down, the other thing sounds like a M....e mini mixer preamp in comparison, the transients especially don't sound natural - they do with the Lavry.

[sunflute]

Hello Ivo,

I listened to both Monochord samples and they BOTH sound pretty amazing! In my opinion both preamps get the job done. Very musical, each in its own way. In this case the differences are not so evident but just different ways to portray the musical content, very pleasing in both cases.

In the flute samples I still hear distortion from one channel so it's hard to concentrate on the subtleties.

Thanks again,
peace
Marco

[sunflute]

Drums samples,

The Lavry definitely has more detail and clarity in the HF. Very Balanced.

Peace
marco

[ISedlacek]

I have just received the prototype of Fred Forssell new preamp. I am speechless ...

[sunflute]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

I have just received the prototype of Fred Forssell new preamp. I am speechless ...

Oh My Goodness, I Can't wait to hear your impressions. I've been wanting to get a Forssell preamp for a while. I have his 993 OpAmps in my Hardy M2 and they sound Amazing.

Let us know Ivo,

Peace
Marco

[T.RayBullard]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

I have just received the prototype of Fred Forssell new preamp. I am speechless ...

hope it sounds better than his collab with millennia...

but on to important questions...does it LOOK like it sounds good?

[Melodioso]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

I have just received the prototype of Fred Forssell new preamp. I am speechless ...

You have immense talent in just choosing the right words to make us drool like dogs... Throw us the bones, no, the samples!

[d_fu]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

I have just received the prototype of Fred Forssell new preamp. I am speechless ...

So now you sold the DAV, bought the Flamingo, now the Lavry is even better, and maybe you will need the Forssell eventually? Lots of buying and selling...

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by Melodioso

You have immense talent in just choosing the right words to make us drool like dogs... Throw us the bones, no, the samples!

It has also a dark side. The US post gave it such a rough drive that one of the gain pots is broken inside (and also - the front pannel is bent on both sides - my goodness). So the actual gain is now maybe 5-10 dB and I cannot set it higher, so if I want to listen I have to normalise it drastically, which naturally brings some noise forward. So please understand that these samples are not ready for public posting.The pot will be replaced hopefully soon ...

Anyway, I never heard anything like that before ... I almost fell down from the chair when stroke few tones on my favourite test instrument (monochord). It sounds HUGE and so ALIVE, intimate and delicate and takes everything from the instrument to the very least details and makes it remelt into gold ... It does not throw the sound into your face, but preserves the natural 3D space as you hear it in reality.

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by d_fu

So now you sold the DAV, bought the Flamingo, now the Lavry is even better, and maybe you will need the Forssell eventually? Lots of buying and selling...

Have not bought anything yet (including Flamingo) and DAV is still here ... I don´t think Lavry is better than Flamingo (just borrowed it for few hours from a friend out of curiosity ). I need two stereo preamps anyway ...

[chrissugar]

Originally Posted by T.RayBullard

hope it sounds better than his collab with millennia...

Fred has nothing to do with the HV3 series preamps. He designed the M-2B tube pre, NSEQ-2 equaliser, TCL-2 compressor and the STT1 except the solidstate mic pre (HV3 type) part from this channel strip.

chrissugar

[chrissugar]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

.....So the actual gain is now maybe 5-10 dB and I cannot set it higher, ...

Anyway, I never heard anything like that before ... I almost fell down from the chair when stroke few tones on my favourite test instrument (monochord). It sounds HUGE and so ALIVE, intimate and delicate and takes everything from the instrument to the very least details and makes it remelt into gold ...

Although I'm a big fan of Fred's engineering, and I'm sure that this pre is another very good design, I have to say that testing at 5-10dB gain, will not tell too much about the preamp because as a general rule, preamps start to show their specific sound and flaws at higher gains like 40, 50, 60, 70 dB. At high gains there is not that much corrective feedback like at low gains and it is easyer to draw conclusions about how good a preamp is. If a preamp sounds fantastic at high gains it will sounds fantastic at any gain.

chrissugar

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by chrissugar

Although I'm a big fan of Fred's engineering, and I'm sure that this pre is another very good design, I have to say that testing at 5-10dB gain, will not tell too much about the preamp because as a general rule, preamps start to show their specific sound and flaws at higher gains like 40, 50, 60, 70 dB. At high gains there is not that much corrective feedback like at low gains and it is easyer to draw conclusions about how good a preamp is. If a preamp sounds fantastic at high gains it will sounds fantastic at any gain.

chrissugar

I know. Actually it is around 20-25 (just counted the steps on the working one) . But it is the only gain available now ...I don´t make conclusions, just sharing immediate impressions ... But even with this small gain (normalised), it sounds VERY nice. The new pots will be here very soon, so I can tell more later ... I tried to record something on Flamingo with extremely low gain and normal gain, normalised both - and I actually did not hear much sound difference between both. Anyway, I will come back when everything works perfect ..

[squeegybug]

Sorry to hear the shipping problem, Ivo, since I had recommended Global Express Mail to you (if that is indeed what you used). I've used that service dozens of times for international shipping with 100% complete success, but I guess there are always opportunities for problems with any shipper. Or, who knows where the damage might have occurred, or what the packaging might have had to do with it.

re the posted samples -- I far preferred the Lavry sound on drums and monochord. Pure and strong, with nice dynamics and tone. Much more depth than the Flamingo. Flamingo sounds "washed out" to me, with artificial dulling and smearing. Actually in some ways reminds me of how the Pendulum could sometimes respond when I had it here....

The flute... I did not really care for either one, I guess I'd pick Cranesong from those choices. It still flattens the transients and depth, but with that particular mic selection and placement the Lavry reproduction is a little too edgy for my tastes.

But both flute recordings have severe distortion, so hard to make any judgments. I think all analog equipment must be used at or below its 0 VU range and then make up any needed level later with digital gain.

Steve

[George Necola]

Anyway, I never heard anything like that before ... I almost fell down from the chair when stroke few tones on my favourite test instrument (monochord).

how much does he pay you?

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by George Necola

how much does he pay you?

Not very nice remark ... I don´t know about your practice, but I don´t need anyone to pay me for my experience. Believe it or not, I still enjoy this kind of sound alchemy and I am still quite enthusiastic and passionate about all these toys ...

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by squeegybug

Sorry to hear the shipping problem, Ivo, since I had recommended Global Express Mail to you (if that is indeed what you used). I've used that service dozens of times for international shipping with 100% complete success, but I guess there are always opportunities for problems with any shipper. Or, who knows where the damage might have occurred, or what the packaging might have had to do with it.

Yes, packaging was slightly weak point ... It will be better next time. Anyway, the new pots are already on the way here, so it shall be fully working very soon ..

[George Necola]

Not very nice remark ... I don´t know about your practice, but I don´t need anyone to pay me for my experience. Believe it or not, I still enjoy this kind of sound aclhemy and I am still quite enthusiastic and passionate about all these toys ...

you didnt get the amount of sarcasm included in that post.. so I will take everything back and sway

cheers & peace

[bluegrasser]

Would love to hear more Ivo, about the Fred Forssel stuff!!

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by bluegrasser

Would love to hear more Ivo, about the Fred Forssel stuff!!

All I can say, the stereo solid state preamp (prototype) is simply amazing. It put all the previous "clean" preamps I tried before, in shade a bit. Because unlike them, it somehow does not "sound" on its own , it does not impose its own "spices" and ideas on the sound, but it simply opens a big, clean, incredibly detailed 3D window in the reality. When I play and then listen, I feel that I still play, because it sounds as I heard it before, in the same natural space with all the intimate details. But it is not that slightly hard, edgy or clinical "reality" (or muffled in other cases) as certain other "clean" preamps may offer. It is a big, real, relaxed space, with all the emotional details kept nicely alive. Nice, fully open HF, but absolutely not harsh, or too unnaturally "hifi". Simply, it makes you happily smile. For example Lavry pre is also very nice and faithful, but somehow a bit "dry" and limited in a way (in this comparison). I don´t know how this magic works ...

There is one interesting thing - for example with Flamingo or Pendulum: when I play something, the result is always somehow slightly (com)pressed "in your face" with some artificial flavours and a bit sodium bicarbonate added as if :-)) Very nice (and great for many purpose), but not that "relaxed" , with a natural emotional content (you realise it when you compare). With this preamp you hear the real space and distance and the real instrument. which is very soothing somehow ...

(BTW - the gain pots have been fully working again for the last one week).
I tried also with R88 - sounds great (and has 70 dB gain ....).

I am sure that this preamp may not be ideal for everybody (especially for rock/pop needs when you need everything "boosted" and coloured) but for acoustic music, I never tried and heard anything like that.

Next week I shall have Fetcode here. I expect and hope it may very nicely complement this one, adding maybe some extra touch of "sweetness" to the sound (which may be welcome for example for vocals etc.). Let us see ...

After I have both here, should you like, I may write more detailed report with some samples ...

[bluegrasser]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

All I can say, the stereo solid state preamp (prototype) is simply amazing. It put all the previous "clean" preamps I tried before, in shade a bit. Because unlike them, it somehow does not "sound" on its own , it does not impose its own "spices" and ideas on the sound, but it simply opens a big, clean, incredibly detailed 3D window in the reality. When I play and then listen, I feel that I still play, because it sounds as I heard it before, in the same natural space with all the intimate details. But it is not that slightly hard, edgy or clinical "reality" (or muffled in other cases) as certain other "clean" preamps may offer. It is a big, real, relaxed space, with all the emotional details kept nicely alive. Nice, fully open HF, but absolutely not harsh, or too unnaturally "hifi". Simply, it makes you happily smile. For example Lavry pre is also very nice and faithful, but somehow a bit "dry" and limited in a way (in this comparison). I don´t know how this magic works ...

There is one interesting thing - for example with Flamingo or Pendulum: when I play something, the result is always somehow slightly (com)pressed "in your face" with some artificial flavours and a bit sodium bicarbonate added as if :-)) Very nice (and great for many purpose), but not that "relaxed" , with a natural emotional content (you realise it when you compare). With this preamp you hear the real space and distance and the real instrument. which is very soothing somehow ...

(BTW - the gain pots have been fully working again for the last one week).
I tried also with R88 - sounds great (and has 70 dB gain ....).

I am sure that this preamp may not be ideal for everybody (especially for rock/pop needs when you need everything "boosted" and coloured) but for acoustic music, I never tried and heard anything like that.

Next week I shall have Fetcode here. I expect and hope it may very nicely complement this one, adding maybe some extra touch of "sweetness" to the sound (which may be welcome for example for vocals etc.). Let us see ...

After I have both here, should you like, I may write more detailed report with some samples ...

That's quite a review Ivo. Yes, I'd love to hear comparisons with the Fetcode. It sounds like the Forssel preamps may be the be-all-end-all for traditional acoustic music.

[sunflute]

Guys,

You can listen to a CD that was produced by Fred Forssell. It sounds so Life like, 3d and natural. Amazing. It was mastered by Bob Katz.

One wonders if Fred used the new preamp in those recordings.

Leah Larson

The CD is called "Long Journey"

Peace
Marco

[Melodioso]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

All I can say, the stereo solid state preamp (prototype) is simply amazing. It put all the previous "clean" preamps I tried before, in shade a bit. Because unlike them, it somehow does not "sound" on its own , it does not impose its own "spices" and ideas on the sound, but it simply opens a big, clean, incredibly detailed 3D window in the reality. When I play and then listen, I feel that I still play, because it sounds as I heard it before, in the same natural space with all the intimate details. But it is not that slightly hard, edgy or clinical "reality" (or muffled in other cases) as certain other "clean" preamps may offer. It is a big, real, relaxed space, with all the emotional details kept nicely alive. Nice, fully open HF, but absolutely not harsh, or too unnaturally "hifi". Simply, it makes you happily smile. For example Lavry pre is also very nice and faithful, but somehow a bit "dry" and limited in a way (in this comparison). I don´t know how this magic works ...

If one day you decide to retire from the music biz, then I'd advise you to try marketing... I know that your view is unbiased and that you share no *special* relationship with manufacturers, so those words must be coming from your ears and heart. And simply, I cannot resist!

So far, from all the samples you posted, the Crookwood impressed me the most. But I don't like the $$$ remote control thing, and the paintpot design would be a pain for me (got everything in racks). Would you describe it as detailed as the Crookwood? I particularly enjoyed the detailed high-end and crystal quality of the later, without sounding harsh. Does this new pre behave in the same way?

One last question: does it have a separate PSU (as GML)?

Thanks for the update!