record a cello?

[eight16]

im stuck on how to get the cello to really be upfront in the mix but not overly bassy...Any suggestions...mic? how far?
Thanks alot
-pat-

[Improv]

sm57... seriously! If you like that "eleanor rigby" type sound... which you should! I'd put it about 2 feet away, point at a 45 degree angle towards the bridge. Sounds great...

[Midlandmorgan]

I'm pretty well satisfied with either a ribbon or the Joly modded 319 (IE U47FET) thru a Pacifica. P1, or pre from the Soundtracs console...always upfront, never booming...mic from treble side or from 3-4 feet out to avoid too much bottom end...

[mrguitarguy]

I'm not sure what your mic closet consists of, but try a small diaphram condensor on the bridge of the cello. I've had excellent luck with Neumann KM180 series and even the cheap Octava MC012!

Try an omni mic if you're still getting too much bass. Many of the world's top engineer's do this with acoustic guitar to keep the low end from getting out of hand.

[Watersound]

a 4047 works GREAT in this application, if you have one try it. If you are doing doubles, triples, etc. you want a mic that doesn't sound too big in the bottom end. A 57 would probably be nice also like the other poster said, though I've never tried it.

[conquest]

r 121 around halfway down the neck tilted back some and an earthworks a few feet in front

[mpr3]

best sound i've heard came from a schoeps cmc6 mk21 (wide cardioid) about two feet out on the treble side, just under where the neck meets the body, and angled down between the bridge and f hole.

[lpkyer]

Originally Posted by Midlandmorgan

I'm pretty well satisfied with either a ribbon or the Joly modded 319 (IE U47FET) thru a Pacifica. P1, or pre from the Soundtracs console...always upfront, never booming...mic from treble side or from 3-4 feet out to avoid too much bottom end...

apex 205 through pacifica was impressive on violon last week.

[Improv]

Ok, I've gotten better sound with condensers and room mics, but for the application stated in the original post, I still vote for a 57.

[Sigma]

451
or u47 fet

about 12-18 inches away

[Sigma]

Originally Posted by patrox247

I beleive the original primary intended source for the U87 is cello.

i used 87's on violins and violas but never cellos

never saw anyone mic a cello with one

[mrguitarguy]

A LOT of people mic cello's with the U87. One of the most popular mics for the instrument. Sounds great. Very full. Might be too full in this case judging by the original post.


A cello is one of the only instruments capable of reproducing the full human vocal range. The U87 is perfect for it for the same reasons it is popular on vox. The strong mid-range complements good quality cellos very well.

[cleantone]

never saw anyone mic a cello with one

I have personally for sure.

[Ollie]

I thought that a KM-84 sounded real good.

Check out the following at about 45 seconds into the tune.

http://riverbendstudio.com/stash/New_Pockets.mp3

[sedohr]

The last time I mic'ed a cello was with my Pearlman TM-1 through Pacifica. Not too close to get a little bit of the room with it, the room is a part of the instrument. Sounded like heaven.

Kalli

[Sigma]

Originally Posted by mrguitarguy

A LOT of people mic cello's with the U87. One of the most popular mics for the instrument. Sounds great. Very full. Might be too full in this case judging by the original post.


A cello is one of the only instruments capable of reproducing the full human vocal range. The U87 is perfect for it for the same reasons it is popular on vox. The strong mid-range complements good quality cellos very well.

cello's hit lower notes than humans and a female voice is higher..i'd compare a human voice[ male and female superimposed] as being like a clarinet range wise

[mrguitarguy]

Originally Posted by Sigma

cello's hit lower notes than humans

Actually that's not true (forced to learn this stuff in the conservatory in college). C2 is the lowest physical range for humans. While not pretty sounding, and not commonly sang, it is there. Common range for a bass usually does not go lower than E2 however (in classical music). However, the cello is commonly used to play the vast majority of the same notes that the human voice commonly sings.

The cello is one of the only instruments capable of reproducing human like range and vocal qualities such as vibrato.


(Actually the human voice can go up to C6, but sopranos commonly only sing as high as A5. A cello is limited to the skill of the player.)

[Sigma]

Originally Posted by mrguitarguy

Actually that's not true (forced to learn this stuff in the conservatory in college). C2 is the lowest physical range for humans. While not pretty sounding, and not commonly sang, it is there. Common range for a bass usually does not go lower than E2 however (in classical music). However, the cello is commonly used to play the vast majority of the same notes that the human voice commonly sings.

The cello is one of the only instruments capable of reproducing human like range and vocal qualities such as vibrato.


(Actually the human voice can go up to C6, but sopranos commonly only sing as high as A5. A cello is limited to the skill of the player.)

Tim Storms vibrates his vocal cords at 8 Hz. and is two octaves below the lowest B on a piano. His World Guiness record was certified in January 2002. Tim Storms also holds the Guinness World Record for the widest vocal range for a male

I mean i am talking practicle here though

[edit]Classification of vocal range in classical solo music

Common vocal ranges represented
on a musical keyboard


Soprano


Alto


Tenor


Bass
The following vocal range classifications are typically used in classical music (from highest to lowest). The ranges listed are prototypical but actual vocal range differs from person to person. Those listed below should not be taken as a restrictive category but as a general guide. Vocal teachers may be able to tell you your exact vocal range in warm-ups. (source: [1]):
Basic range (most commonly used):
Soprano: C4 - A5
Soubrette: C#4 - B4
Mezzo-soprano: A3 - F5
Contralto/Alto: G3 - D5
Tenor: B2 - G4
Baritone: G2 - E4
Bass: E2 - C4
Physical range (differs from singer to singer; does not include male or female falsetto):
Soprano: C4 - C6
Soubrette: C#4 - A#5
Mezzo-soprano - G3 - A5
Alto: F#3 - F#5
Tenor: B2 - D5
Baritone: F2 - G4
Bass: C2 - D4
(Male falsetto can extend the vocal range of a male singer an average of an octave higher and female flaggelio can extend vocal range of a female singer up to nearly an octave lower).
The first four ranges are usually sung by women, and the last three are sung by men. Males which possess high ranges are referred to as countertenors and possess ranges equivalent to those of the four female ranges, alto, mezzo-soprano, soubrette and soprano (a male soprano is specifically referred to as sopranist and many times has a range far higher that of a female soprano). Contraltos have been known to sing Tenor (although this is strongly discouraged, especially among younger contraltos), and occasionally men will sing in the upper three ranges.
In addition to these general classifications, additional subdivisions are very commonly deployed in opera and other classical music for solo voice. There are a number of such detailed classification schemes, many of which are country-specific. See, for example, the articles on individual voice types above or the article on Fach.
[edit]Induced vocal range
Where the above are largely achieved through practice and natural aptitude, adult vocal ranges can be obtained by means of physiological modification. The most notable example of this would be castrato singers, although modern examples include the lowering of the voice through Tobacco smoking.
[edit]Roles in opera
Mezzo-sopranos occasionally sing roles intended for sopranos (Lady Macbeth, Santuzza, Isolde) and vice versa (Carmen, Rosina, Marina), resulting in ambiguity between voice-types. Usually the composer mentions the appropriate voice-type for a given role, but things aren't always so simple - Verdi, for example, used "mezzo-soprano" to include altos as well. Earlier composers (such as Mozart) did not distinguish mezzos from sopranos. Another way to determine the appropriate voice-type is by the ensembles: three-part female choir include a soprano (first soprano), a mezzo (or second soprano) and an alto (or a mezzo). Carmen, for example, sings the lowest part in the Frasquita-Mercedes-Carmen trio, hence Bizet obviously didn't intend for a soprano to sing it, but for either a mezzo or an alto. Still, there are many sopranos who sang this role quite effectively. The voice-type of a singer depends on the dominant category of the singer’s repertoire. In Maria Callas' case, although she sang Rosina and recorded Carmen the major part of her repertoire included soprano roles, therefore she was a soprano. Fiorenza Cossotto, on the other hand, was a mezzo, although she sang Adalgisa and Santuzza and recorded Lady Macbeth.
[edit]Vocal range in popular music

Vocal range in popular music is usually more generously defined than in classical. Because of the use of amplification it is possible for singers to produce musically useful pitches that are much lower than might be possible for classical singers. Similarly, consistency of timbre is much less important in popular music. Thus in many popular genres falsetto is acceptable for men, deep growling pitches can be deployed, and flageolet notes (commonly referred to as the whistle register in popular music) can be freely used by any female or male who can produce them.
The importance of vocal range varies in popular music. At one extreme, to choose a well known example, genres such as punk show little concern for technical proficiency of any sort and thus no particular concern for vocal range. Similarly, many roles in the musical theater, while requiring rather more skill, call for only vaguely determined voice types. At the other extreme, vocal range is considered extremely important by many singers and fans of some heavy metal music. There is often intense discussion among fans of precisely what a particular singer's vocal range is, and singers often show extremely wide ranges.
For these various reasons, it is extremely difficult to speak of vocal range in music generally. For more information, see the articles on individual genres.
[edit]Vocal range in terms of frequency

In terms of frequency, human voices are roughly in the range of 80 Hz to 1100 Hz (that is, E2 to C6) for normal male and female voices together. The world records for high and low pitch extend well outside of this range, and can extend outside the range of human hearing.
[edit]World records and extremes of vocal range

As noted above, claims of exceptionally wide vocal ranges are not uncommon among some singers. The biggest claim came from Charles Kellogg, who claimed to have a vocal range of 12,5 octaves. Kellogg could accurately imitate birdcalls, which sometimes went up into the supersonic range, according to Kellogg as high as 14,000 Hz. Some recordings of Kellogg's birdcalls still exist. However, Kellogg's claims are very hard to verify. [1]
In 2006 the Guinness Book of Records published several categories relating to extremes of "Human vocal range." It stated the following:
Females
Greatest range: Eight octaves G2-G10, Georgia Brown, Brazil Watch Here (example of E7)
Highest vocal note: G10 (25087Hz), Georgia Brown, Brazil
Males
Greatest range: Six octaves, Tim Storms, USA Watch Clip
Highest vocal note: C#8 Adam Lopez, Australia Watch Clip
Lowest vocal note: B-2 (minus 2, two octaves below the grand staff)(8 Hz), Tim Storms, USA

[rockyroad]

U87 works fine on Cello.

[Robert Sands]

I've also heard people rave about the AT 4047 for cello. If it sounds anything near as good on cello as it did last week when I recorded my Beard reso (dobro) then it would be worth checking out. Vintage sounding with very nice detail to it. Loved it!

[7om]

I really like the Royer 121 on cello.

[Nu-tra]

Take a small diapragm omni condencer mic and wrap it in bubble wrap enough to fit through the hole under the bridgepiece. You want the mic to stay snug without damaging the bridge. Point the mic straight up so the head of the mic goes under where the neck ends. I know it's weird but it sounds killer!!!

[A440]

Pearlman TM1 through Phoenix Audio DRS-2 sounds great...about 2 feet away pointing at a sound hole..

[Audiopool]

MK012 works really fine with bowed instruments. The more I use it the more I like it!. Yesterday I recorded a concert with violin + grand piano. I used two MK012 in ortf and the result is great. State radio will broadcast part of the concert and they were very happy with the recording. This '012 is even better on cello and viola than on the violin.

[nbasila]

Originally Posted by mrguitarguy

Actually that's not true (forced to learn this stuff in the conservatory in college). C2 is the lowest physical range for humans. While not pretty sounding, and not commonly sang, it is there. Common range for a bass usually does not go lower than E2 however (in classical music). However, the cello is commonly used to play the vast majority of the same notes that the human voice commonly sings.

The cello is one of the only instruments capable of reproducing human like range and vocal qualities such as vibrato.


(Actually the human voice can go up to C6, but sopranos commonly only sing as high as A5. A cello is limited to the skill of the player.)

more like F6... at least in some opera (Magic Flute, maybe?) Of course, people never seem to take the fact that pitch classification has risen over the years, so an F6 today is probably at least a half step higher than it used to be.

Of course, you can never really understand what coloraturas are saying, anyway.

[s_sibs]

I did a record a couple of years ago and used an AT4060 on cello, about 12-18in. away. The cd was kinda Ben Fold's sounding (piano, vocals, drums, bass) with cello playing a big role in the songs. It also helped that the cat playing had a $75K cello to play!