iPod into a PA System?

[Bloodsoaked]

Anyone know if I need a Speaker cable or Instument cable going from my iPod to the PA?

I have pre-recorded drum tracks on my iPod that I play back over my PA in my practice room while I play guitar and sing. Just trying to figure out the cable going from the iPod to the PA, should it be a Speaker or Instument cable?

My main reason for asking is that I want to use the pre-recorded drum tracks from my iPod for a live (club) show and want to make sure I have to correct and proper cable to hook my iPod to the PA at the club.


Anyone have sugestions?


Peter<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->
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[gunofason]

This, interestingly enough, is actually pretty easy - and not uncommon. There are a few manufacturers that make cables to go from your iPod to any outside source (e.g., home theater stereo, car aux input, etc.). You can buy these cables, such as the one here, for pretty cheap at a lot of places. Chances are you may already have one (or one like it lying around). Basically, it's a standard 1/8" headphone plug to 2 (stereo) RCA plugs. You'll have to have a mixer with at least one RCA input. If the track is just for practicing, a mono signal should be OK. If you're savvy with a soldering gun, you can make one of these cables pretty easily too..

If its for a live show.......just make sure your iPod is charged!!

[Bloodsoaked]

Originally Posted by gunofason

This, interestingly enough, is actually pretty easy - and not uncommon. There are a few manufacturers that make cables to go from your iPod to any outside source (e.g., home theater stereo, car aux input, etc.). You can buy these cables, such as the one here, for pretty cheap at a lot of places. Chances are you may already have one (or one like it lying around). Basically, it's a standard 1/8" headphone plug to 2 (stereo) RCA plugs. You'll have to have a mixer with at least one RCA input. If the track is just for practicing, a mono signal should be OK. If you're savvy with a soldering gun, you can make one of these cables pretty easily too..

If its for a live show.......just make sure your iPod is charged!!

For a live club show I don't think the PA will ahve RCA inputs. I am asuming I could go from thr RCA jacks into 2 stereo RCA inputs that have a 1/4 jack on the other end that would go into the club PA?

Sound right?

[gunofason]

That would work! You can get a connector that does exactly that. We have one at out studio for different purposes such as this so I know they're out there. Just remember mono should be ok to if you can't find a stereo one. If you're in a club, nobody will notice.......

[Bloodsoaked]

Originally Posted by gunofason

That would work! You can get a connector that does exactly that. We have one at out studio for different purposes such as this so I know they're out there. Just remember mono should be ok to if you can't find a stereo one. If you're in a club, nobody will notice.......

Yeah, I am assuming like I do not in my practice space, I can have the 1/8 jack coming out of the iPod and the other end a 1/4 jack that goes into the PA. Even though the iPod is stereo mono to mono should be fine I would think. I have all the drums panned in the center anyway and nothing panned left or right for the PA drum tracks.

This all works fine in my practice space and want to make sure it will work in a live club situation so I don't look like an idiot...LOL


Peter

[Joe Porto]

Originally Posted by Bloodsoaked

Anyone have sugestions?

Peter<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

If you are going to be doing this regularly, you may want to look into a direct box. I have used an Ipod into a Radial JDI. It will sum your stereo signal to mono to be sent through the stage snake to a mic pre on the board (as you would a DI bass guitar on stage). The tranny tends to enhance the sound of the Ipod too.

[tsvisser]

I've got two more suggestions...

1) I'm not trying to be a smart ass, but please please consider using another source besides the iPod... like a field recorder or even a burned CD into a CD deck. I'm not going to get into the WAV vs MP3 debate, as a propenent of WAV, I can concede that high bitrate MP3 will do the job for anything but a hi-end system, but I'd like to address that that iPod, as convenient and cool as it is, is a really crappy audio source. ...from the DAC to the the line level drivers (really all an integrated SOC / cheap component)... which it really doesn't have unless...

2) use an iPod dock, which takes line level out of the bottom connector - not the "headphone" output, which is a different impedence and has variable output. i'm not sure that the dock connector's output impedence realy qualifies it for a "real" line out, but it is better than using the headphone out.

[downrazor11]

i would definitely not recommend using a cd if you are doing stuff that is time and pitch sensitive, like backing music tracks, as all cd players spin at slightly different speeds and there is considerable (measurable) effect on the playback pitch/time versus the original.

that is the advantage that flash drive mp3 players have. and you have to wonder how hi fi the pa is going to be, im sure the d/a conversion isnt pristene but do you think you could accurately tell the difference on a house pa system? personally, we used adat sucessfully but i am considering switching to flash mp3, dont know if id use the ipod because of the touch sensitive wheel...

[nd33]

Use uncompressed aiff files on your ipod and most def use the lineout on the ipod dock it is way better than the headphone out.

_

[Joe Porto]

Originally Posted by downrazor11

i would definitely not recommend using a cd if you are doing stuff that is time and pitch sensitive, like backing music tracks, as all cd players spin at slightly different speeds and there is considerable (measurable) effect on the playback pitch/time versus the original.
...

This statement confuses me. Is it not the SAMPLE RATE that dictates the pitch of a digital source, and not the rate of the CDs rotation. It would be the internal digital clock of the CD player that dictates pitch. Why would the digital clock of a CD player be any worse than that of an .mp3 player.

I've played over CDs since the late 80's and I've never found the pitch to be a problem. Now vinyl records or cassettes, that's a different story.

[Bloodsoaked]

Thanks for all the info and comments guys.

Has anyone played to pre-recorded tracks and if so what did/do you use to play your tracks through at the clubs?



Peter

[Meriphew]

I'd run the iPod through one of these below.

Duplex™ - with stereo iPod:
Interface stereo consumer audio gear, such as an iPod, directly into +4dB balanced audio gear be it mixing console, recorder, broadcast or PA system. The -15dB pad can be switched in to tame hot input signals. If you want, you can plug in headphones to the 'Thru' jacks to monitor the input—tip: use the 'XLR In Select' switches to interrupt the XLR OUT signal so you can privately monitor the iPod!

In this setup:

• iPod plugs into RCA or 1/4" jacks using the appropriate cable
• Headphones plug in to RCA or 1/4" 'Thru' jacks with appropriate cable
• Engage the pad if the device if required to avoid overloading the mixer
• Connect each balanced XLR output to two (panned) mixer channel

Radial JDI Duplex Mk4 stereo passive direct boxes

[downrazor11]

i would have thought that pitch and time consistency was one of the main advantages of the digital world, but when i was considering using burned cd's for backing tracks our recording engineer had said that pitch is unreliable with alot of the consumer cd players. i remember asking about the rationale behind this and it making perfect sense but i can't remember what it was, and i just did a search and couldn't find any info to support my claim. so... i may be an idiot... if anyone has more info id like to hear it.

also we did a couple of shows with an adat player, the xt20, and it was flawless, but it was so much to set the tracks and now we can't because there is no bridging software for mac os 10. its for sale if you are interested.

[jeremy.c.]

Originally Posted by Bloodsoaked

Thanks for all the info and comments guys.

Has anyone played to pre-recorded tracks and if so what did/do you use to play your tracks through at the clubs?



Peter

I have done it a lot with an iPod. We use left as click for the drummer and right as a mono mix of the programmed material to the PA. Use uncompressed aif or wav though, you lose a lot of low end punch on mp3s.
I used DATs a while ago, but never used CDs as skipping could be a problem. I definitely love the flexibility and portability iPods have over DATs (and they're cheaper too!)
The advice to mix mono or stereo and sum it all sounds really solid to me, just use wav or aif though, my friend used 128kpbs mp3s at a show once and it sounded like a$$...

[Bloodsoaked]

Originally Posted by olivia_nb

I have done it a lot with an iPod. We use left as click for the drummer and right as a mono mix of the programmed material to the PA. Use uncompressed aif or wav though, you lose a lot of low end punch on mp3s.
I used DATs a while ago, but never used CDs as skipping could be a problem. I definitely love the flexibility and portability iPods have over DATs (and they're cheaper too!)
The advice to mix mono or stereo and sum it all sounds really solid to me, just use wav or aif though, my friend used 128kpbs mp3s at a show once and it sounded like a$$...

The iPod will not play wav files so I have the mp3s at 320kbps.

I also like the fact that you had a click for the drummer on the left channel. I would love to be able to get the click in the monitors to halp keep timing......something I will think about....thanks a lot.


Peter

[Crash]

The cheap way to do this is buy a 1/8" (or whatever size that jack is) to XLR male stereo cable and plug it into the snake that is attached to the console and go to town. The mic pres on a console are going to give you plenty of smack to hurt yourself with volume, straight out of the headphone jack with your Ipod at half volume or slightly louder. I do this all the time with my Ipod. Works like a charm. You can use DI's and all that but this is down and dirty cheap and it sounds just bueno. The only thing you probably want to make sure of is that your are not sending phantom power to the Ipod, don't know that it would hurt it but I haven't been brave enough to try it and there is no reason to do it anyway.

[Sounds Great]

Try these guys:

Audio Y Cable - Stereo to Left & Right (Split Wired)

[Bloodsoaked]

Originally Posted by Crash

The cheap way to do this is buy a 1/8" (or whatever size that jack is) to XLR male stereo cable and plug it into the snake that is attached to the console and go to town. The mic pres on a console are going to give you plenty of smack to hurt yourself with volume, straight out of the headphone jack with your Ipod at half volume or slightly louder. I do this all the time with my Ipod. Works like a charm. You can use DI's and all that but this is down and dirty cheap and it sounds just bueno. The only thing you probably want to make sure of is that your are not sending phantom power to the Ipod, don't know that it would hurt it but I haven't been brave enough to try it and there is no reason to do it anyway.

So a 1/8" to XLR "male" cable? Like the opisite side of a mic cable? The female XLR pluging into the Mic and the male XLR pluging into the PA or in this case the snake?

I guess this makes the most since. Does just about all clubs have a "snake" that I can plug into?


Peter

[Bloodsoaked]

Originally Posted by Crash

The cheap way to do this is buy a 1/8" (or whatever size that jack is) to XLR male stereo cable and plug it into the snake that is attached to the console and go to town. The mic pres on a console are going to give you plenty of smack to hurt yourself with volume, straight out of the headphone jack with your Ipod at half volume or slightly louder. I do this all the time with my Ipod. Works like a charm. You can use DI's and all that but this is down and dirty cheap and it sounds just bueno. The only thing you probably want to make sure of is that your are not sending phantom power to the Ipod, don't know that it would hurt it but I haven't been brave enough to try it and there is no reason to do it anyway.

This should be all I need correct?

Hosa Angled 1/8 Stereo to Male XLR Cable from zZounds.com


Peter

[geizo94]

Originally Posted by Bloodsoaked

The iPod will not play wav files so I have the mp3s at 320kbps.

I also like the fact that you had a click for the drummer on the left channel. I would love to be able to get the click in the monitors to halp keep timing......something I will think about....thanks a lot.


Peter

I would recomend not having the click coming through the monitors unless you want it to be heard through the PA.
If you're pre-recorded track is very percussion heavy, then by all means have that in the monitors as long as it's not too syncapated and you won't lose your place.
However, if it's more melodic bassed accompaniment you might want to try running a click from the ipod, through a small mixer (so you have control of what you're getting, don't leave it up to some dumbass sound guy) to some head phones/inears for yourself. Dorky as it may seem, you might be able to make it your "thing".

[Bloodsoaked]

Originally Posted by geizo94

I would recomend not having the click coming through the monitors unless you want it to be heard through the PA.
If you're pre-recorded track is very percussion heavy, then by all means have that in the monitors as long as it's not too syncapated and you won't lose your place.
However, if it's more melodic bassed accompaniment you might want to try running a click from the ipod, through a small mixer (so you have control of what you're getting, don't leave it up to some dumbass sound guy) to some head phones/inears for yourself. Dorky as it may seem, you might be able to make it your "thing".

Hmmmmmmmmmmm.....Very interesting. Run the iPod through a small mixer, have the right side go to the PA system for everyone to hear and then have the left side with a click track go to some inear monitors that only I could hear......damn, that sounds very interesting and if I could get it to work out just right very productive.

Yeah, the pre-recorded tracks are percussion heavy as they are only drum tracks. I have the kick drum a bit louder in the drum tracks I have for playing live than I did on the CD so to be able to hear the kick a little more from the monitors to keep timing.

Thank you!!!

[Crash]

That one will work if you want to go mono. This is what you want if want stereo, or the option to go mono (via pan pots) at the console. This is the kind I use.

http://www.performanceaudio.com/cgi/...ducts_id=10608

[dbbubba]

I have to run iPods into all kinds of p.a. rigs on a regular basis.
Get an 1/8" stereo to two 1/4" plugs at Guitar Center (Hosa makes them.)
A lot of people I know have bought the high dollar Apple version that I think Monster makes.
They are crap because the fancy RCA jacks need a RCA to 1/4" adaptor and the "fabric"/woven jacket pulls loose imedeately (if it is even attatched to anything in the first place.) They cost too much, too.
The Hosa cables are cheap enough hold up to road use.

It is also best to use a cable that splits out the L/R to two jacks because headphone amps don't like the L/R (tip/ring) shorted together.
With enough output it can blow out the headphone amp.

You can go into a direct box.
I plug one into the 1/4" line inputs of a Midas at every gig.
The small mixer idea with split outputs is good, too.
I have seen stadium level, mega groups use an iPod oand a small Mackie by the drummer!

We use iPods for walk in music.
I am also dragging one to a studio today to check out a console I am thinking about buying.
Mine only has .aiff files.
I don't need to store THOPUSANDS of .mp3s because I don't liike THAT much music!

[andrews]

Have you guys who use ipods ever considered using wav files and a sequencer or daw on a notebook computer? To me, it would seem a lot easier to handle on stage, easier to balance tracks plus probably sound a lot better.

[Bloodsoaked]

Originally Posted by Crash

That one will work if you want to go mono. This is what you want if want stereo, or the option to go mono (via pan pots) at the console. This is the kind I use.

Hosa CYX-402 at Performance Audio

Yeah, mono works for me as I have everything on the drum tracks panned in the center for the live tracks.


Peter

[Bloodsoaked]

Originally Posted by dbbubba

I have to run iPods into all kinds of p.a. rigs on a regular basis.
Get an 1/8" stereo to two 1/4" plugs at Guitar Center (Hosa makes them.)
A lot of people I know have bought the high dollar Apple version that I think Monster makes.
They are crap because the fancy RCA jacks need a RCA to 1/4" adaptor and the "fabric"/woven jacket pulls loose imedeately (if it is even attatched to anything in the first place.) They cost too much, too.
The Hosa cables are cheap enough hold up to road use.

It is also best to use a cable that splits out the L/R to two jacks because headphone amps don't like the L/R (tip/ring) shorted together.
With enough output it can blow out the headphone amp.

In this case I am asuming I would need to run both 1/4" plugs into 2 inputs on the PA? Would'nt that make it a bit harder to get both the left and right at the sound, level, effects and so on? Would'nt the 1/8" running from the iPod to a single XLR into the PA make things a bit easier from the sound guys point of view?


Peter

[Sounds Great]

Originally Posted by dbbubba

The Hosa cables are cheap enough hold up to road use.

Did you actually say this with a straight face?

Originally Posted by Bloodsoaked

This should be all I need correct?

Hosa Angled 1/8 Stereo to Male XLR Cable from zZounds.com


Peter

Noooo! Just say no to Hosa! dfegad

Notice the molded end.

It isn't if, but rather when that cable will fail. Get something better. And I think you want a [y] cable with 2 xlr's coming from the 1/8 stereo plug.

[King Of Spain]

Originally Posted by Meriphew

I'd run the iPod through one of these Radial Duplex devices.

this is exactly what I use with an iPod w/uncompressed audio and it works fine...though I'd like to find a dock with a dig out that I can run into a nice DA...but for live through a PA it's probably overkill...

[tsvisser]

Originally Posted by Sounds Great

Did you actually say this with a straight face?







Noooo! Just say no to Hosa! dfegad

Notice the molded end.

It isn't if, but rather when that cable will fail. Get something better. And I think you want a [y] cable with 2 xlr's coming from the 1/8 stereo plug.

isn't thre a good chance that the cable pictures is a balanced mini to balanced XLR-3 cable? ...that the right signal would end up going to hot and left to negative - or vice versa, thus causing a very odd summing / phase probem... sort of a ghetto surround channel solution?

i'm sorry, this whole iPod to PA thread makes me shudder. iPod is great and very convenient for personal / portable use. it just seems that there are so much better solutions out there / i.e. more professional, for not a lot of money.

[Meriphew]

I'd be worried about having a Hosa cable short out just from removing it from the package that it came in.


dfegad Hosa