CraneSong Flamingo vs. DAV (in a search for clean beauty)

[ISedlacek]

Still looking for an ideal preamp sound to fit my ideas (clean but beautiful) I finally got an opportunity to try the new model of CraneSong Flamingo. Being already quite familiar with other Dave Hill´s amazing devices (Ibis and STC-8), I suspected this may be the bingo ...

Having DAV as a present reference to a "clean" rendering, I did few direct AB samples between DAV and Flamingo (few instruments recorded on a pair of Schoeps MK2). I thought it would be interesting to compare the three new Tone settings (standard Flamingo sound, less Tone = clean, Colour Tone = more colour). I did not play with Iron and Fat settings too much yet. Comparison to Pendulum is also interesting (cannot help, I find it a tiny bit "sharpish" in comparison).

Monochord

Flamingo standard Tone

Flamingo "less Tone = clean"

Flamingo Colour Tone

DAV

Pendulum

Flute

Flamingo "less Tone = clean"

Flamingo standard Tone

Flamingo Clour Tone

DAV

Drum:

Flamingo

DAV

Viola damore:

Flamingo standard Tone

Flamingo Colour Tone

DAV

Pendulum

Nylon string guitar

Flamingo standard Tone

Flamingo Colour Tone

DAV

Pendulum

Tenor recorder:

Pendulum

Flamingo - Colour Tone

DAV

[sunflute]

Thanks again Ivo for the wonderful samples,

The flute samples in this comparison to the flamingo, confirms (yet again) what I thought about the DAV, that it sounds wonderful and smooth in the lows and mids but when it starts to go in the upper registers it sounds a bit harsh (well, harsh is not the word) but maybe a little out of balance with the rest of the other sounds heard. The Flamingo does a great job (in all settings) at keeping all of the registers in balance with each other.

My order of preference for flute was:

1- Flamingo Standard
2- Flamingo Color
3- Flamingo Less
4- DAV

Peace
Marco

[ISedlacek]

Apart from other sonic delicacies, a very remarkable (and loveable) Flamingo feature is the soundstage width and depth ... Listening to an instrument recorded on Flamingo and switching straight to DAV (or even Pendulum), it is interesting to hear how the soundstage is immediately narrowed (especially with DAV) ... Yes, in comparison with such a preamp beautie as Flamingo appears to be, the DAV HF sound indeed a bit ... ehm .. unbalanced ...and also some details are hiding somehow. Even Pendulum does not exactly excite me in this comparison ...

[Agli]

The Flamingo seems to be really versatile. I liked the standard tone the most on these samples, although I can see that the colour option is something I would often use if I had one. Very good work.

[ISedlacek]

There are still options I have not used much (iron, fat), just tried a bit on vocals. I will have a more acceptable vocalist than me here on Wednesday, so I may also post some vocal samples with Horch RM2J, using also those iron/fat settings ... although I don´t think Flamingo is a typical lead vocal preamp ...

[mosrite]

Still looking for an ideal preamp sound to fit my ideas (clean but beautiful)

Ivo, just out of interest have you ever heard any of the Amek Pure Path range of preamps?

They seem to fit your requirement of clean and they have a lovely silky top end.

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by mosrite

Ivo, just out of interest have you ever heard any of the Amek Pure Path range of preamps?

They seem to fit your requirement of clean and they have a lovely silky top end.

No, I have not. But they are somehow discontinued I think ? Aren´t they in the style of Neve ?

In the meantime I have tested Flamingo etc. on real music takes and mixes and assured myself I found a beautiful preamp upgrade. I will pass DAV to a new master and Pendulum to my friend.
As much a I liked DAV, I must admit, that Flamingo is overall a different sound league - more clear, deep and detailed, yet not sterile or harsh in any way ... just a pleasant clear reality. Plus all those sound options, of course, but these will find just very occassional use

Thus I would need one more great preamp to be in pair with Flamingo (I need just 4 ch , nothing more). Could be also one on slightly sweet side ... Thinking maybe of Fred Forsell Fetcode ... maybe Siemens V276 ? (many people recommend it). But to say the truth I am a bit reserved about these old "dinosauruses" .... So let us see ...

[mosrite]

No, I have not. But they are somehow discontinued I think ? Aren´t they in the style of Neve ?

HUGELY different from any Neve Pres I've heard / tried (e.g. 1073).

The Amek is super quiet, clean and detailed (with the beforementioned smooth top end). Other Neves I have heard and used have a seriously thick and rich mid and a huge ammount of colour.

The Ameks are discontinued and therefore can be got for bargain prices. They are built like tanks so you probably wont have a problem with repairs!!

Anyway, I personally think they fit your descriptions of what you are looking for and might be worth checking out.

(having said that I have used the Cranesong Flamingo and was mighty impressed...).

[sunflute]

Originally Posted by mosrite

have you ever heard any of the Amek Pure Path range of preamps?

Is that the same as the Amek 9098?

Peace
Marco

[mosrite]

Is that the same as the Amek 9098?

As far as I'm aware they use the same preamp stage

[sunflute]

Originally Posted by mosrite

As far as I'm aware they use the same preamp stage

Thank you,
A friend of mine has one in his studio. I'll be sure to check it out next time I am there. Peace
Marco

[ISedlacek]

Few days passed in the company of the preamps and I must say that the CraneSong Flamingo is the most amazing preamp I have ever encountered. None of the preamps I own or tried comes even close to its realistic, yet extremely musical, sweet, emotional and 3D rendering of any source ...

But this is just the starting point. It is not just a simple straight unit, but is equipped with a number of various tonal switches. The most appealing of its numerous switches is the new Tone switch (present only on this new model), offering the most useful subtle tone changes - from totally transparent preamp sound (yet absolutely not sterile, as I have encoutered elsewhere), through the "standard" Flamingo sound (adding a very sublime invisible touch of "magic") to more "coloured" sound, adding a similar enriching of subtle harmonics as known from Ibis.
All the three settings are equally useful and can be used depending on the source and artitic vision ...

The iron and fat switches seems to be useful for example for vocals. You can get that kind of a big vintage Neve sound, yet with much better clarity than the original. I actually prefer this vocal sound to Pendulum, which I so far considered to be ideal for vocals ...
Probably can be also successfully used for some bass lines, drums etc.

And now imagine that you can combine these Iron and Fat switches with the three tone settings. Quite overwhelming and incredibly flexible.

Of course, I used it in much more reasonable situations, takes and arrangements than those few rough isolated samples above, which actually do not say much.

As much as I liked DAV, Flamingo is a completely different sound league for me ...

The only drawback is the price
.. and maybe also an unforgivable clipping when you strike the instrument too much and your input gain is set too high ...

Now I need to inhabitate the second preamp to be in pair with this beautie. I am honoured that Fred Forssell kindly offered me the possibility of sending the prototype of his very new preamp (which he considers to be the very best he ever made) and also his Fetcode, which was my special request (based on several enthusiastic comments of very experienced users)

So one of these two shall be the brother, I think :-)
Or it can also be the Lavry preamp that I will have the opportunity to try on Sunday ...

[knightrupert]

Be sure to let us know how the Lavry Blue preamps compare. I'm very curious about these. Cheers.

[Melodioso]

Hi Ivo!

Thanks again for those samples! Joining late to this listening party ..., but here it goes (all this to my ears of course. I also compared this set with the Crookwood's you posted earlier).

The Flamingo sounds similar to the DAV (same "category") but indeed with more depth, dimension and presence. It's like a super DAV. It retains its nice sound (euphonic to use your term) but seems a level above.

The DAV is very nice, specially at its price point. In all the samples it sounded more distant, but always "distinguished" and pleasant.

The Crookwood was interesting to compare. And it's in a different "category" than the two above. On the monochord, it is the most appealing... well defined bass, and crystal like highs without being harsh. Beautiful. However, on other samples (i.e flute, viola) it seemed thin, sometimes even piercing.

It's hard to sum up; on one source I'd use one pre and on another source something else. But the Crookwood seems to be the most transparent of the bunch. The Flamingo is clean (but not transparent) and thicker, while the DAV is clean but more distant.

Of all three, the Flamingo with its sound options is probably the most versatile. And it is the most expensive. Congratulation if you found your Holy Grail of pre!

By the way, did you also go through all of this for your mic selection? Did you ever try out the Josephson C617?

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by Melodioso

By the way, did you also go through all of this for your mic selection? Did you ever try out the Josephson C617?

I suspect it would sound in similar style as Schoeps ... To avoid that, I bought AEA R88 stereo ribbon instead It for sure does not sound very similar ...

Yes, to have an alternate preamp would be great and useful. A prototype of Fred Forssell´s new preamp is already on the way to me ...

[Melodioso]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

I suspect it would sound in similar style as Schoeps ...

Similar to Schoeps when compared to an AEA R88 for sure. I can see all the energy you put on for the search of a pre, to give you this exhilarating and precious sound... Perhaps you will find the same difference between the Josephon and the Schoeps than you did between the DAV and Cranesong. Not that Schoeps or DAV are bad in any way...

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by Melodioso

Similar to Schoeps when compared to an AEA R88 for sure. I can see all the energy you put on for the search of a pre, to give you this exhilarating and precious sound...

I am done with preamps for very long time. No more trying and testing (except trying the new Fred Forssell´s one). BTW - how do you feel about Lavry preamp as shown in the other thread ?

[bluegrasser]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

I am done with preamps for very long time. No more trying and testing (except trying the new Fred Forssell´s one). BTW - how do you feel about Lavry preamp as shown in the other thread ?

What new Fred Forssel preamp? Have you tried the FETCODE? Been lusting after that for a while. That and Lachappel EG have interested me for some time.................

[chrissugar]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

I am done with preamps for very long time. No more trying and testing (except trying the new Fred Forssell´s one). BTW - how do you feel about Lavry preamp as shown in the other thread ?

Hi Ivo

Any details about Fred's new preamp? Is it solidstate or a Fet/Tube variation like the Fetcode?

chrissugar

[ISedlacek]

It is solid state and Fred said it is the best one he ever made ... (already flying over the ocean to me ..) Not in production yet. He may send me the Fetcode too ...

[Melodioso]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

BTW - how do you feel about Lavry preamp as shown in the other thread ?

Hey, didn't you just say you were done with pres?!?

So, after a quick listening (what happened? clipping and buzzing at some places...): I'm impressed! You should, if time allows, do more comparisons, because it deserves it. The stereo width is very good and it is well balanced. It is also more open than the Flamingo, so I liked it better on the monochord. But the Flamingo is a little bit thicker and has more "cream" to it, so I prefered it on the flute... Also, Lavry is very upfront, while Flamingo has more depth. For sure the Lavry's are very clean. Maybe too direct, or too fast? Will listen again later.

It's surprising nobody talks about these Lavry pres, while the converters get all the rave. There are some many options out there, it's almost frustrating.

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by Melodioso

Hey, didn't you just say you were done with pres?!?

I said it long after I tried the Lavry :-)) It´s actually already on the way back to its master ...

Yes, Lavry pres sound very straightforward and clean - almost just like a wire with gain ... But I mostly like a tiny bit of astral cream on the sound :-))

But having 1U rack unit with top class converters and stereo preamp when going on location could be quite handy ...

Just read very interesting Lynn Fuston´s comment about Lavry pre samples. It somehow well describes my own impressions: 3dB - View Single Post - Lavry mic pre - samples

[Melodioso]

So I did listen to these samples again (Lavry pres). I understand when you say "astral cream", the Flamingo puts every notes in a little sweet envelope, much as the DAV does; while giving more presence and depth than DAV. The Lavry's remind me of the Crookwood, because it is very crystal-like in the high-end. On the monochord it is my favourite, each note of the chords has its own space and breathes. You feel like inside the sound. But on high pitch instrument (fl, vla) it is too much, as was the case with the Crookwood. I wouldn't call it harsh though. Maybe too upfront and in-your-face (agressive?). Maybe I understand why you chose DAV and now Flamingo, and let Crookwood and Lavry go away!

These solo samples give some idea about those pres, but when used together or when stacking different tracks with them, results will vary... Still, I learned a lot from your samples, so thanks for those!

Did you have the chance to test the Gordon pres? Some samples are on this site as well somewhere, along with DAV and A Design btw. Sounded better than DAV as well...

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by Melodioso

Did you have the chance to test the Gordon pres?

No, what does not come here on its own, will not reach here ... Easy to try things which are in Europe. Apart from that, I feel honoured that Fred Forssell is sending me his preamps to try. So, no place and time for any more candidates ...

Yes, using the preamps for a real music and with more tracks shows much more than short, raw, isolated samples. After trying them in a "real life", I can for sure say that Flamingo again excels in clarity and beauty. Everything so well and clearly defined, yet very pleasant and musical sounding.

Additional sound options are great too for certain special instruments and vocals.