Permanent mics for a concert hall.

[zaczac]

I'm interested in any reccomendations people have for a simple and permanent mic setup for a concert hall. (this one) Bishop Audio & Lighting. It's 250 seats, and very spacious and lively. They are using the stock pres in an 002 at the moment, and I don't think they'll be budgeting for better pres, but I think they'll be willing to spend whatever they need to on the mics themselves.

I'm well out of my depth with orchestral work, so any suggestions you have about placement and choice of mics would be great. They're planning on keeping the mics hung from the ceiling, rather than setting up stands, will this be problematic?

Any ideas are welcome

[MorganN]

why not try a decca tree from AEA..
Modular Microphone Array Positioners – Products – AEA Big Ribbon Mics™ and Recording Tools
it can be hung from the ceiling without a problem

If it's too lively for your taste, I would try using wide cardioids instead of omni as they pick
up less ambience. You could always add reverb in post.. as long as it doesn't have the name Digitek on it. :P
I don't know your budget, but a couple of Schoeps CMC5/6 with MK21's should
be worth a shot.

I think there are more than enough posts on Decca tree setups around here. Just do a search.
Good luck!

[bishopthomas]

Is this to be used as the main pair for live recordings in the hall or are they for audience response? Hanging the mics will be a great way to get them off the floor, out of sightlines, and away from traffic. It will be limiting since not all groups will sound the best at the spot you pick in that room, but it's a good compromise. Buy a tall stand (or two) to mount the mics before you permanently install them, that way you can experiment to find the best sounding spot.

I just re-read your post and realized that I only assumed you want only two mics. Is that correct? What kind of budget are you working with? In general, the more you spend on a microphone the better it's going to sound. But also a more expensive mic might not sound the best in the space you have. Maybe rent some options that fit your budget and decide which you like best. Give us a price range and we can recommend specifics.

[fifthcircle]

With a room like this, you'd be best to have some sort of general ORTF-type pair. A tree or spaced pair will sound good on some things, but especially if there is chamber music or smaller ensembles, you won't get a particularly good sound.

An ORTF pair won't be perfect for everything, but any time you have a permanent pair, you kind of have to hit the least common denominator. Schoeps, Neumann, Sennheiser, DPA, etc.. will all work well.

The DPA compact cardiods would be a good choice because they have a small visual footprint (and they sound great). Means folks won't notice them as much from the audience.

I would suggest that your hanging rig lead to a point in the catwalks where you can move your mics forward and back. Have the mic cables and tie-backs attached via pulleys or something similar so that if you need the mics in a different position, you can hit it easily. That will help your compensate for any problems that may come up with the specific pair that you choose to hang.

--Ben

[hughesmr]

I second Ben's ideas .... a pair of stealthy DPAs will make for a top-flight permanent array.

I also suggest that if the room is very good, you might also consider Schoeps CCM 21 (SCHOEPS wide-cardioids). I know I bang the drum for the Schoeps wide cards a lot, but they are fabulous in good rooms, and will not disappoint you re bass response with larger ensembles.

[fifthcircle]

Along the lines of what Michael said... Schoeps are fantastic and the MK21 is great (even in not so great rooms). One option with the Schoeps would also be to keep a stock of capsules so that if you want to change your sound, you lower the mics and then mount a new set of capsules. Modular mics are great that way.

--Ben

[mohthom]

I use the DPA compact mics at the concert hall we have at the university where I study - two pairs installed in the hall. An X-Y pair at about 120 degrees, and a pair of spaced omnis. A couple of problems we've had with them;

Especially with the omnis (no idea why), I find that they can get real noisy real quick. We've had some problems with the X-Y pair as someone broke the position cable, and they're about 4 feet too high and 12 feet too far back - we live and learn I guess. Whoever said it was about compromise was right - and my rule of thumb is that if you just want a recording of a concert for archive, then they'll do the job (unless in extreme circumstances) but if you need a recording, make sure you've got tie lines and a well set-up booth etc. I did a recording recently where lighting was brought in (film shoot) and the AC from the lights dirtied up every single tie-line in the building because of some shoddy fitting. I guess my point is, if you're happy with the compromise for archive or what have you, make sure there's also a way you can engineer a best-case scenario in the future when you get a big performer in etc.

I'm not going to profess to know which mics sound best in that hall, but if you're not able to spend some real money on preamps, I'd steer clear of the DPA compacts.

MohThoM

[Karl Jackson]

I've installed a similar setup in our hall, and can second the recommendation for a near-coincident array (ORTF or NOS). That way you've got a flexible setup that is also visually unobtrusive. I've supplemented that with omnidirectional flanking mics as well, since I knew that most of my work would be with large ensembles. I would limit choice of mics to small diaphragm condensers to keep size and weight down, and you've got many options there according to your budget. As far as implementation, I would recommend picking a location that will allow you to dead hang the mics but also enable you to attach a positioning line, making it easy to adjust the distance of the mics from the source. I used architectural winches from Pfaff Silberblau along with 1/16" wire rope for lateral positioning, but would recommend fishing line if you need a less visible (albeit more troublesome) solution.
You will need a stereo bar - which you can either make yourself or buy. One approach to this is to use a 1/2" wooden dowel cut to length, 2 1/2" split ring hangers, a couple bits of 3/8" threaded rod, and a couple of 3/8 to 5/8 adapters. Paint everything black and you've got an infinitely adjustable, inexpensive, low profile stereo bar.

[zaczac]

Thanks for all of the helpful responses (this is what I love about Remote). I'm not sure exactly what the budget is, but when I asked they basically just said, they'd spend whatever was neccessary. So any good options are worth considering. I'll read back more carefully later, but for now I have to run...

[LapTop006]

One thing which we have in a few halls in Melbourne is a Soundfield hung by its cable so it's about 5m in front and above the edge of the stage.

Never actually used the feed from one, but that setup has stayed over refits so they must like it.

[zaczac]

I've been wading my way through all of the hall micing and stereo posts I could find, with everyone's reccomendations in mind, and am beginning to get a clearer picture of options.

A simple Schoeps ORTF setup is looking very appealing to me at this stage. It should suit the wide variety of groups, and I like the idea of interchangeable capsules. I'll have a closer look at the Sound Fields and DPAs tomorrow when my brain isn't so fried.