Listen to and critique my recent jazz vocalist recordings

[Robobo1]

Hi all... in the middle of a jazz project with a vocalist. Vocals, piano, guitar (acoustic/electric), bass. Trumpet, trombone, percussion, and harp on some tunes.

I'd love to get your impressions of the mixes so far!

The mixes are low-level, I apologize... I let the mastering engineer take them up.

The piano on some of the tunes is lacking presence in the left hand... I think I've since fixed this.


Here's a good mix of the different styles of music.

http://jazz.robbyers.com/My_Shining_Hour_320.mp3

http://jazz.robbyers.com/Golden_320.mp3

http://jazz.robbyers.com/Hooray_for_You_320.mp3

http://jazz.robbyers.com/Feather_320.mp3

http://jazz.robbyers.com/I_Cant_Get_Started_320.mp3


Please, have at it! Your comments and criticisms will only make the project better.

[Pericles]

You're in the wrong forum for this.

[Robobo1]

Originally Posted by Pericles

You're in the wrong forum for this.

This is where I've always come when I've wanted to read about jazz recording. This is also where all the "jazzers" post.

Here's the description of the forum:

Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording
Jazz, Classical, Choir, Acoustic Music environments & beyond + Live Performance, Mobile & Location Production & Broadcasting Moderated by Steve Remote of Aura Sonic Ltd. NYC, NY USA

Pericles, what do you think of the mixes? I'd love some input!

[d_fu]

I'm by no means a specialist for jazz recording, but so what...
Very pleasant sound... Listening with a Yamaha USB audio interface and a pretty standard HiFi system. The singer's voice isn't 100 % my cup of tea, and I think it could do with a tad more reverb, but the overall atmosphere of these recordings is nice and soothing...

Tell us more about the gear you used.

And I don't think it's wrong to post it here, I'd also post samples of acoustic/remote recordings here. I consider the show&tell forum mostly a musical showcase, not one for recording technique etc...

BTW, the Hooray link doesn't work.

Daniel

[Robobo1]

Originally Posted by d_fu

I'm by no means a specialist for jazz recording, but so what...
Very pleasant sound... Listening with a Yamaha USB audio interface and a pretty standard HiFi system. The singer's voice isn't 100 % my cup of tea, and I think it could do with a tad more reverb, but the overall atmosphere of these recordings is nice and soothing...

Tell us more about the gear you used.

And I don't think it's wrong to post it here, I'd also post samples of acoustic/remote recordings here. I consider the show&tell forum mostly a musical showcase, not one for recording technique etc...

BTW, the Hooray link doesn't work.

Daniel

I fixed that Hooray link. Thanks for the heads up!

What's do you not like about the singer's voice? Is it her performance or the way I capture it?

It's funny you mention reverb... she and I have our opinions about this, and she has requested just a bit less reverb than I'd prefer.

Singer is a Neumann M269 through a GML pre with a touch of GML EQ and compression in mixing.

I do want to put up a gear list but I'll wait to do that until some more comments are made.

Thanks D_fu!

[d_fu]

Originally Posted by Robobo1

What's do you not like about the singer's voice? Is it her performance or the way I capture it?

Nah, just the voice as such, pure matter of taste, nothing serious...
Nothing wrong with the capture.

[Remoteness]

Originally Posted by Pericles

You're in the wrong forum for this.

So, why is this the wrong forum?

[Remoteness]

Robobo1, nice work...

How did you record this?

[RichS]

Generally a smooth sound, nice quality. My only "negative" observation (and really only a minor one) would be a sameness in the instrument positions in the mix. Piano always left, guitar always right... it was predictable after the first two tracks.

Whenever an instrument was featured at the beginning of a song or was in duet with the singer, it sounded exactly the same as in the ensemble. There's no sense of the musician "stepping-up" for the solo or duet and then settling back into the group. (I hope I'm explaining that right.) I'd suggest varying instrument sounds it to better support the mood of each song... create a few surprises. Otherwise it could get boring with a full CD's worth of tracks.

Her voice is very pleasant, but I'm detecting the just slightest speech impediment... Elmer Fudd r's or perhaps a slight foreign accent... especially in the last track. I'm not trying to be cute or nasty about it, it's just that after 30 years of vocal coaching, those little things just jump out at me.

Overall though, a very nice job.

[Robobo1]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

Robobo1, nice work...

How did you record this?

Thanks Steve!

Piano, bass, drums, guitar, and trumpet were all in the same room. Vocalist was in a large booth (a room we typically use to isolate drums). Trombone and harp were overdubbed.

Here's a picture of the room: NPR's Studio 4A.


Used more mics than listed here, but this is what ended up in the mix.

Piano - Spaced pair of 414s in cardioid -> Millenia

Drums - OHs - spaced pair of Heine-modified U87s -> API 512 pres

Bass - SM69 (in XY) right where the fingers pull the strings -> a sidecar of old Neve pres of a broadcast board. A Neumann M269 was there at the f-hole as well as a KM140 in the bridge, but neither have been used so far. NO DI!

Acoustic Guitar - Neumann KM64 in ORTF -> Neve pres

Electric Guitar - SM57 on the grill -> Pendulum pre, mixed with an AEA R84 a foot or more off the grill -> Millenia (though the pre may have been the Pendulum too, I don't have my notes on me).

Voice - Neumann M269 -> GML pre

Trumpet - Coles 4038 (I love this mic) -> Millenia

Trombone - One side of a Royer SF12 -> Millenia

Harp - Neuman KM64s in ORTF -> Neve (auxilliary track, didn't have time to try different mics)


Bass slightly goboed to keep drums out. Acoustic Guitar heavily goboed, but on some tracks he was re-rerecorded because the bleed was too much. Electric Guitar amp was goboed heavily and on the opposite end of our very large room. Vocals in a very large iso booth.

[Robobo1]

Originally Posted by RichS

My only "negative" observation (and really only a minor one) would be a sameness in the instrument positions in the mix. Piano always left, guitar always right... it was predictable after the first two tracks.

Hmm... I see your point, though I'm not sure I agree for these jazz tunes. However, I should explain that this is a double album.... one CD of standards and one of her originals. Many of the originals are not mixed yet and the positions of the instruments WILL change on those tunes.

Originally Posted by RichS

There's no sense of the musician "stepping-up" for the solo or duet and then settling back into the group.

You know, I thought I had actually done a good job of this while keeping it in context! Ooops... I think I'm going to put the mixes away for a while and come back with a fresh pair of ears. I'll keep your comment in mind when I do that.

Originally Posted by RichS

Her voice is very pleasant, but I'm detecting the just slightest speech impediment...

I think it's more of an accent. I hesitate to say that it's part of her style... but I will say that she tried to be very conscious about her diction. Some of these tunes have heavily-overdubbed and edited vocals... though most are actually the original, complete takes she sang with the band! She has consciously decided to leave many of the takes as-is in order to be true to the performance and her interaction with the band... A decision I respect!

Thank you for your comments, RichS!

[Robobo1]

Anyone else have comments?

I'd really like to hear your criticisms!

[d_fu]

Originally Posted by Robobo1

Hmm... I see your point, though I'm not sure I agree for these jazz tunes.

Neither would I... I don't think I'd want to hear the piano move about or "step forward" in such a setup.

[bcgood]

Originally Posted by Robobo1

Anyone else have comments?

I'd really like to hear your criticisms!

Thanks for posting in here, (Don't listen to the lawyer, they sometimes tend to misinterpret rules : ) Just messing around...

Hey I just listened to the first tune, (My Shinning Hour) on the list and I really enjoyed it. I think that everything sounds really nice. One thing that I personally prefer is to hear the drums more, especially those brushes against the snare. For me that's very important and in this tune it was pretty far in the background. The other thing that I noticed was how her vocals changed when the drums and bass came in, she changed her style and delivery quite a bit which isn't typical of professional singers. When she sings, "Like the lights of home" the high note lights sounds too loud and a little off pitch wise... At any rate again I want to say I really like this recording, it sounds very spacious, warm and organic.

bcgood

[RichS]

Originally Posted by d_fu

Neither would I... I don't think I'd want to hear the piano move about or "step forward" in such a setup.

I guess some of my comments were a little broad... yeah, the piano obviously shouldn't move about in a track, but maybe have a little more "weight" in the mix when featured or in duet with the singer.

Some of this could be due to choices made by the players. When it's just me (piano) accompanying a singer, my chord voicing will be thicker and more harmonically complex (sort of "stepping-up"). When "back in the group," I'll use more open voicing so as not to conflict with the guitarist's chords or the bass lines.

In the sample tracks, every thing's seems to be in the same place/level regardless of its importance in the arrangement. If the piano is the main support instrument on a particular track, than maybe it should be more centered with the singer and the "accent" instruments left/right. When the guitar is the main harmonic support, then it should be with the singer for that track. If it makes musical sense within the song, I don't think it will be a distraction to the listener.

There's a great soundtrack album from the movie "good night, and good luck" featuring singer Dianne Reeves (30 second samples available on iTunes), that does some of what I'm talking about. Also, a very interesting article/review of the album in Mix magazine http://mixonline.com/sound4picture/f...d_2/index.html -- check it out.

[matyas]

At first, I wasn't crazy about some of the panning choices. I don't necessarily need instruments to "step up" or move around, but the hard-panning of certain instruments was a little unnerving at first. (I should mention that I'm listening on headphones.) However, I do think that in general it is a beautiful recording, and I did really like the tone of all of the instruments. I even did get used to the hard panning after awhile.

[Robobo1]

Originally Posted by matyas

At first, I wasn't crazy about some of the panning choices. I don't necessarily need instruments to "step up" or move around, but the hard-panning of certain instruments was a little unnerving at first. (I should mention that I'm listening on headphones.) However, I do think that in general it is a beautiful recording, and I did really like the tone of all of the instruments. I even did get used to the hard panning after awhile.

Thanks Matyas!

I've been concerned about the hard panning, but part of me likes it. It's nice to hear a conflicting opinion.