Royer SF-12 or AEA R88 ?

[musicsound-2]

which are the better mics for stereo recording ?
Or does is just depend on the appliction ? Anybody tried both ?

[stevesmithfan]

I'd love to know this as well. I'm torn between these 2 mics for room miking, I've heard sound clips of the SF 12 used as a room mic, and it sounds amazing without Eq. It seems to capture an accurate stereo separation beautifully. I've never heard samples of the AEA R88 yet.
Anybody out there know the difference between these 2 mics?

[kt66]

Have not heard an R88, but I am extremely fond of my SF12.

[RecTeach]

I have the SF12 and love it.... but make sure you have an ultra clean preamp with at least 70+ db of gain.

[echotp]

I have a SF-24 and use it on room recording and drum overheads almost exclusivly. It is basically a pair of 122's. I also bought an inexpensive Rode NT-4 and am very impressed with it for the low dollars. (Under $400 on ebay)

[Meriphew]

Stereo Royer or stereo AEA? I'd say it's a win win situation. I'd be happy with either.

[Petimar]

I am very happy with SF12 and AEA R84 (I understand the 88 is a stereo version of the 84). They both have their uses. My next purchase is probably gonna be the R88.

[Doc Mixwell]

The AEA R88 is a great choice is you want a darker sounding ribbon.
We use the R88 for our Leslie 122 and it seems to roll-off the brightness of the top rotor perfectly. We have also used the SF-12 on the Leslie and have found it to be the more "polite" of the two. The stereo spread is a little better with the SF-12, but the R88 has a more aggressive sound.
The SF-12 makes for a great room sound in our rather large tracking room.

Also, we used the R88 for Drum overheads placed directly above the drummers head, about 5 feet up. The upper ribbon was the ride side and the lower was the hat side.

You really can't go wrong with either choice.

peace
mixwell

[Doc Mixwell]

The AEA R88 is a great choice is you want a darker sounding ribbon.
We use the R88 for our Leslie 122 and it seems to roll-off the brightness of the top rotor perfectly. We have also used the SF-12 on the Leslie and have found it to be the more "polite" of the two. The stereo spread is a little better with the SF-12, but the R88 has a more aggressive sound.
The SF-12 makes for a great room sound in our rather large tracking room.

Also, we used the R88 for Drum overheads placed directly above the drummers head, about 5 feet up. The upper ribbon was the ride side and the lower was the hat side.

You really can't go wrong with either choice.

peace
mixwell

[musicsound-2]

Originally Posted by RecTeach

I have the SF12 and love it.... but make sure you have an ultra clean preamp with at least 70+ db of gain.

I have an Earthworks 1022, Portico 5032 and a Voxbox. All of them has +60db gain. I am also considering to buy a Pacifica.
Do you think that´s sufficient (still not 70db) ?

Which preamp are you using for the SF12 ?

[AlexLakis]

Originally Posted by echotp

I have a SF-24 and use it on room recording and drum overheads almost exclusivly. It is basically a pair of 122's.

I was under the impression that the SF-24/12 is basically a pair of SF-1s. From what I understand, the R-121/2s sounds different than the SF-1s. Do you have experience with both? If so, how would you compare them?

[Brad McGowan]

Yes the SF12 is a pair of SF1's...which have a thinner ribbon than the R121.

SF12 = much sonic goodness

Brad

[maestro]

Audio attached of Kawai RX5 Grand Piano to AEA r88 into Cranesong SPider into Digi 002/Powerbook via ADAT.Just a quick experiment in a normal living room. Havent heard the Royer

[musicsound-2]

Originally Posted by maestro

Audio attached of Kawai RX5 Grand Piano to AEA r88 into Cranesong SPider into Digi 002/Powerbook via ADAT.Just a quick experiment in a normal living room. Havent heard the Royer

nice - thanks !

[Doc Mixwell]

Originally Posted by musicsound-2

I have an Earthworks 1022, Portico 5032 and a Voxbox. All of them has +60db gain. I am also considering to buy a Pacifica.
Do you think that´s sufficient (still not 70db) ?

Which preamp are you using for the SF12 ?

If your looking for tons of clean gain, go with the AEA TRP.
This pre will take care of the gain issue with some older ribbons.
Sounds great on everything. Way more flexible than the Pacifica.
The Ribbon Pre – Products – AEA Big Ribbon Mics™

peace
mixwell

[Brad McGowan]

Flexible in what sense? Feature-wise or application-wise? I've used the TRP and it certainly has a lot of clean gain for ribbons, which is cool. But I don't think I'd ever want to hear it on every instrument for a rock production (lack of balls). The Pacifica, on the other hand, brings instant smiles every time.

Brad

[DigitMus]

Hmm...haven't tried the R88, though I have an R84. I would think it might be a bit more "colored" than the SF-12. The SF-12 seems very balanced but "round" to me, while my R84 has more contour (i.e. a bit unnatural in a good way for most sources).

FWIW here's the SF12>MiniMe>Masterlink http://www.adigitalmus.net/Classic/archives/Pomp.aif The mic was about 10-12' above the stage floor around 15' behind the conductor (toward the audience). No EQ, compression, etc. though the soft limit was on. Bit reduction from 24->16 was done in the Masterlink.

Scott

[Grizzly]

Originally Posted by DigitMus

FWIW here's the R84>MiniMe>Masterlink http://www.adigitalmus.net/Classic/archives/Pomp.aif The mic was about 10-12' above the stage floor around 15' behind the conductor (toward the audience). No EQ, compression, etc. though the soft limit was on. Bit reduction from 24->16 was done in the Masterlink.

How did you get the stereo ?

[Jamz]

Originally Posted by Petimar

I am very happy with SF12 and AEA R84 (I understand the 88 is a stereo version of the 84). They both have their uses. My next purchase is probably gonna be the R88.

While both manufacturers subscribe to ribbon technology I believe the basic sonic character of Royer and AEA are different. I have the R88, 84, 92 and Royer 121. I find the Royer to be more forward sounding. More "modern" sound. A little more in your face perhaps. The AEA has a "dryer"more retro/darker sound. More open not as much in your face. That's my subjective description obviously not a scientific chart

I do not believe the the 88 is (2) 84s. I believe the 88 has the "flattest" frequency response of the three AEA ribbons mentioned. The 84 has more bottom than the 88. The 92 has the least bottom and is the brightest of the three. They're all tuned a little differently from each other.

I am very happy with my R88. I use it for close room micing on drums, Strings, percussion, anything I want a little ambience/room on, Certain group BG vocals and it typically hovers above the conductor on remote gigs as well...usually second to the omnis. I have several ribbons and prefer to run them through the TRP, sometimes an ISA 430 or a Crane Song Flamingo. Application dependent. Haven't used them on piano yet. However, I did hear a C7 with a pair of coles 4038 ribbons and a Royer 122 and was pleased with the sound.
I've not used the SF12 or 24. I understand they're both excellent mics. Hopefully, I'll have the opportunity to try these out in the near future. I don't believe that owning the 88 and SF-12 or 24 would necessarily be redundant. Maybe extravagant.

[DigitMus]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

How did you get the stereo ?

D'OH!! - I meant the sf-12, of course. That's what I get for posting late at night after a long jam session and a few beers. :D - Original post will be edited forthwith.

[Petimar]

"When I heard that Wes Dooley at AEA was planning a stereo version of the R84 – the R88 – I was interested. I frequently use my R84s for stereo miking, but putting two 12" long mics end-to-end at 90 degrees on a single stand at a height of 8-12' is no small task."
– EQ Magazine (Read the review)

This is from the AEA site about the R88.

[stevesmithfan]

I read an interview on the internet about an excellent session drummer named Billy Ward said the AEA R 88 was excellent as a room mic. He did a session where the R 88 was going through Daking mic pre's. He said the R 88 had a Ringo type of vibe about it.
I still can't decide between the R 88 and the SF 12. Whatever the decision, I'm getting a winner!

[rubycakes]

Digit--

Wow, very impressed with that recording. THAT'S what I'm looking for.

(Ballsy tuba player by the way.)

[Amadeuz]

Yes, thanks a lot Digit!
One thing that I love about the sample you posted, is that you can hear how different instuments of the orchestra sound in this mic.
Personally I loved how brass sounds.
The stereo image is too wide for me, almost distracting, but used in combination with other mics (i.e. section spot mics) Im sure you can get a wonderful image spread!

[DigitMus]

Amadeuz -

Yeah, the image is a little wider than a commercial recording would be - on purpose! The recordings I do for the local symphony are for archival purposes AND for the conductor to analyze/critique the orchestra - the stereo image is fairly close to what she hears at the podium (it's actually a little narrower). From my front row center seat the live sound is damn near identical to the recording (except, of course, for the increased ambience captured by the rear lobes of the capules).

Scott

[nukmusic]

any problems with using only one side of the stereo ribbons??? vs using a mono ribbon?

[Slaytex]

Originally Posted by nukmusic

any problems with using only one side of the stereo ribbons??? vs using a mono ribbon?

Shouldn't be. My cascade X-15 has a breakout box that goes from a 5 pin to two XLR 's. Just remember that one ribbon is going to be out of phase from the other if using it with another mic at equal distance.

[Fletcher]

Originally Posted by nukmusic

any problems with using only one side of the stereo ribbons??? vs using a mono ribbon?

None.

Zero.

Nada.

Enjoy!!

[nukmusic]

[ISedlacek]

HERE you can listen to a direct comparison between R88 and a pair of Schoeps