Blumlein Technique

stevesmithfan · 13th April 2007

I've been experimenting in my drum studio with the Blumlein technique with a pair of Shure KSM 44's going to an Api 3124 preamp. When I do this I notice that the Kick is a little heavy on the right panning, not center like I hoped. I moved my KSM 44's to different parts of the room for different results, once again using the Blumlein. Again the kick more present in the right headphone. I can pan 11 left and 1 right with good results. But any wider panning than that. The kick goes to the right.
Is this normal with the Blumlein technique? I'm wanting to buy a Royer SF 12 and Neve Portico. I know the SF 12 has the Blumlein built in. I don't want the same results with the KSM 44's. I want to use the SF 12 as a room mic with wide panning.
Is this possible?
Thanks.

woomanmoomin · 13th April 2007

I guess some consistent acoustic problem with your room could be messing up the balance here, especially as extreme low frequencies are often problematic. Has your room been acoustically treated?

Are you sure your mics are matched and that they're both OK?

stevesmithfan · 13th April 2007

My room has bass traps and various foam padding. But it may not be properly tuned. I might have a pro come over and help me with it. I don't want to invest a lot of money into an SF 12 and have this problem.
Here's a recording of my drums. I'm trying to beef it up a little with the Blumlein technique.
http://www.soundclick.com/improvjazzdrums

MichaelPatrick · 13th April 2007

Don't take offense at me asking about a mistake I've made. Is the phase between both mics the same? Having done that before I fixed it by reversing one side in the DAW.

stevesmithfan · 13th April 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick

Don't take offense at me asking about a mistake I've made. Is the phase between both mics the same? Having done that before I fixed it by reversing one side in the DAW.

Oh my gosh, I never thought about that. I didn't reverse the polarity on either one of the mics. I'll try flipping the polarity swith on 1 of the mics.
Thanks for the tip.

Drumsound · 13th April 2007

Could the low cut switch be engaged on one mic? That's a mistake I've made. Use a mic and the low cut, out it away, use it another day and wonder why there's no low from the mic...

Fletcher · 13th April 2007

I've never had that kind of issue with an SF-12 and I use it for exactly what you've described on a very regular basis [cutting everything from drums to piano and B-3 with it]. Now, if you have some other signal path anomaly or some serious weirdness [which I would highly doubt... because if you move the mics an inch or two in any direction and the problem still exist... it ain't the room] then all bets are off... but if your signal path is on target then the SF-12 should do all you require.

Peace.

stevesmithfan · 13th April 2007

Thanks for all or your responses. I solved the problem, the top KSM 44 was out of phase. I reversed the polarity and the kick sound went exactly to the center! I'm still new at this stuff, I'm sure I'll have many more stupid questions for you guys in the future!

drBill · 13th April 2007

thumbsup thumbsup

Hey, no stupid questions. We've all done stuff like that and scratched out heads. After you've scratched enough and are bald.....then you won't need to ask so much anymore.

13th April 2007	#1
stevesmithfan Gear maniac Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 167 Thread Starter	Blumlein Technique I've been experimenting in my drum studio with the Blumlein technique with a pair of Shure KSM 44's going to an Api 3124 preamp. When I do this I notice that the Kick is a little heavy on the right panning, not center like I hoped. I moved my KSM 44's to different parts of the room for different results, once again using the Blumlein. Again the kick more present in the right headphone. I can pan 11 left and 1 right with good results. But any wider panning than that. The kick goes to the right. Is this normal with the Blumlein technique? I'm wanting to buy a Royer SF 12 and Neve Portico. I know the SF 12 has the Blumlein built in. I don't want the same results with the KSM 44's. I want to use the SF 12 as a room mic with wide panning. Is this possible? Thanks.

13th April 2007	#6
Drumsound Lives for gear Joined: Jun 2002 Location: Bloomington Il Posts: 5,187	Could the low cut switch be engaged on one mic? That's a mistake I've made. Use a mic and the low cut, out it away, use it another day and wonder why there's no low from the mic... __________________ Tony Oxide Lounge Recording See the Oxide Lounge! Follow me on TWITTER! WWJMD? Come see me on the Tape Op boards! It's only inches on the reel to reel

13th April 2007	#7
Fletcher member no 666 Joined: Jun 2002 Location: Durham, NC Posts: 10,110	I've never had that kind of issue with an SF-12 and I use it for exactly what you've described on a very regular basis [cutting everything from drums to piano and B-3 with it]. Now, if you have some other signal path anomaly or some serious weirdness [which I would highly doubt... because if you move the mics an inch or two in any direction and the problem still exist... it ain't the room] then all bets are off... but if your signal path is on target then the SF-12 should do all you require. Peace. __________________ CN Fletcher Professional Affiliations: R/E/P Professional Recording Engineer and Producer forums - serious hobbyists welcome SoundPure.com mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33 We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid Roscoe Ambel once said: Pro-Tools is to audio what fluorescent is to light

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13th April 2007	#2
woomanmoomin Lives for gear Joined: Jan 2007 Location: London, England Posts: 1,021	I guess some consistent acoustic problem with your room could be messing up the balance here, especially as extreme low frequencies are often problematic. Has your room been acoustically treated? Are you sure your mics are matched and that they're both OK?

13th April 2007	#4
MichaelPatrick Lives for gear Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 2,254	Don't take offense at me asking about a mistake I've made. Is the phase between both mics the same? Having done that before I fixed it by reversing one side in the DAW.

13th April 2007	#9
drBill Gear Guru Joined: Jul 2006 Location: So Cal Posts: 11,510	thumbsup thumbsup Hey, no stupid questions. We've all done stuff like that and scratched out heads. After you've scratched enough and are bald.....then you won't need to ask so much anymore.