Schoeps or Earthworks

[kidtexas]

I'm looking to get a pair of SD omnis. Would you guys recommend Schoeps CMC62's or Earthworks QTC1's? If the Schoeps, would you get the cmc6xt? Will be recording just about everything you might use an omni on, but with a special consideration for environmental sounds.

I've read somewhere that Schoeps are fragile; are they anymore fragile than any other SD mic? Also, have read that the QTC1's have a high self noise... Please dispell or relate any other rumors associated with these mics :p

Also, if it makes a difference, at some point I would like to get a Schoeps M/S setup - while going Schoeps now could save some cash in the future since I could just buy the 2 capsules, going going Earthworks now could save cash if I wanted 4 mics instead of 2, since with the Schoeps I'd have to get 2 more bodies... Thanks!

[duaneadam]

There's an article in this months Mix magazine about small condensors under $1100 which includes the Schoeps.

I have and use both and find the Earthworks clean and true while the Schoeps are warm with remarkable detail.

I would say I use the Schoeps about 10 to1 over the earthworks. I absolutely love the way they sound.

As far as durability, I haven't had to throw them at anyone (yet).
So far so good.

Duaneadam

[ISedlacek]

I have three pairs of Schoeps and it will be nothing new if I say that they belong to the world top-class mics used for the most critical recordings at the most renowned venues. If connected to a quality preamp and AD they sound simply amazing on any source. As for omnis, there are 4 types ranging from the most natural MK2 to MK3 which is very much boosted on HF. I originally bought MK2H but changed it immediately for MK2 and I am most happy with it. The greatest advantage of Schoeps is the modularity of their interchangeable capsules - you have the bodies and can just keep on buying new capsules. I don´t think they are very fragile at all. I already managed to drop a capsule twice (brought me always near to a heart attack ) but nothing happened at all.
I have pairs of MK4V, MK21 and MK2. SHould you have any particular question, just let me know.
I never tried Earthworks, but too heard several times that they are a bit noisy. YOu can also look at DPA, but they are very very expensive. They are often compared to Schoeps (I have never tried), but many people say DPA are a tiny bit more accurate (razor like), Schoeps are tiny bit more warm and "musical"

[kidtexas]

YOu can also look at DPA, but they are very very expensive. They are often compared to Schoeps (I have never tried), but many people say DPA are a tiny bit more accurate (razor like), Schoeps are tiny bit more warm and "musical"

I think I'd rather save the large bit of money rather than have a tiny bit more accuracy. I just have to ask myself (or you guys) if the difference between Schoeps and Earthworks is worth $500 to me.

[sdelsolray]

If you're recording environmental sounds, self-noise of your mic could be a significant issue. Specs reveal that the Schoeps omni caps are quite a bit quieter than the Earthworks omni mics.

Interchangeable capsules favor the Schoeps.

Earthworks omnis get rave reviews. Many beleive they are more transparent than the Scoeps, more in line with DPA.

[ISedlacek]

Originally posted by kidtexas
I think I'd rather save the large bit of money rather than have a tiny bit more accuracy. I just have to ask myself (or you guys) if the difference between Schoeps and Earthworks is worth $500 to me.

It depends how passionate you are about your work and what your aspirations are. (Oktavas are yet cheaper than Earthworks). Mics are the most refined artistic brushes for painting our music. If you get the best, you will never regret it. If you get mediocre ones, you may always lack something ...

[kidtexas]

Originally posted by ISedlacek
It depends how passionate you are about your work and what your aspirations are. (Oktavas are yet cheaper than Earthworks). Mics are the most refined artistic brushes for painting our music. If you get the best, you will never regret it. If you get mediocre ones, you may always lack something ...

True, true. Of course the fact that I am a hack amateur also figures in with that quandary about the extra $500 This is most likely a purchase that will never earn me any money.

Its just that I have read RAVE reviews of the Earthworks QTC1 mics, yet I see some comments about the noise - usually from those not raving about them. If the Earthworks really aren't in the class of performance that the Schoeps/DPA's are in, etc, then I think the extra money is worth it. However, if it is a matter of taste, thats a different matter.

I guess I'd really like to know what kind of situations their noise might pop up in.

Thanks again. Looks like Schoeps might be the way to go... Anybody have a pair for sale? :D

[ISedlacek]

Maybe I missed something, but as for professional classical recordings I heard mostly of DPA or Schoeps being used (apart from some LDs), never of Earthworks.

[Bob Olhsson]

FWIW Schoeps used to be priced right up with DPA and was always considered just as good or better. At the current price, it's the no-brainer best buy of any condenser I'm aware of.

[mr.gefell]

please consider josephson c606b with optional capsules from bruel kjar,aco pacific,gefell and GRAS,IF you are doing close pick up and critical
recordings.the sound is clean,high defined,flat and minimum
distortion.

[jbuntz]

Stapes audio makes a mic very similar to the QTC1 for $500/pr. That's going to save you some dough.

[kidtexas]

Originally posted by ISedlacek
Maybe I missed something, but as for professional classical recordings I heard mostly of DPA or Schoeps being used (apart from some LDs), never of Earthworks.

About the only thing I won't be doing with these is classical. Not that I shouldn't take the hint from the classical guys that these mics are very good.

FWIW Schoeps used to be priced right up with DPA and was always considered just as good or better. At the current price, it's the no-brainer best buy of any condenser I'm aware of.

Good to know.

please consider josephson c606b with optional capsules from bruel kjar,aco pacific,gefell and GRAS,IF you are doing close pick up and critical recordings.the sound is clean,high defined,flat and minimum distortion.

Will do. Though I am thinking about some "distant" pickup too.

[jbuntz]

http://www.stapesaudio.com/

Where in Texas are you?

[kidtexas]

Originally posted by jbuntz
http://www.stapesaudio.com/

Where in Texas are you?

Actually I'm in NJ. Those stapes audio mics seem affordable. I hate to say it, but do they really compare to mics 3-4 times as expensive?

[jbuntz]

Originally posted by kidtexas
Actually I'm in NJ. Those stapes audio mics seem affordable. I hate to say it, but do they really compare to mics 3-4 times as expensive?

Yes. You can ask Fletcher about them. I know of people who have these AND the earthworks and they see just as much use. He bought 6 of them.

[GearGuy]

Jeez... I'll go to bat for Earthworks. They are incredible microphones. Noise has never been a problem for me. I think that somebody needs to clarify what they are talking about in regards to noise with the Earthwork's microphones. Are we talking about audible noise or looking at the specs? Of course, Earthworks has their own specs that they talk about... like how quickly the element returns to a resting position and how this is more "natural" to the ear.

There seems to be a law of nature that you get what you pay for in life. Cheaper mics can sound OK, but never seem to win any shootouts with higher priced mics. You already seem to have hit the nail on the head, about if it would be worth it to you spending more to get a higher return.

I would advise you to get the Earthworks mics if that is what your budget allows. I have not heard the staples mics, but see the above law of nature.


Earthworks is a small US company dedicated to making great mics, and they make these mics in the USA. Schoeps are great mics too. Buy them if you want or need them... I just don't think that it is fair to come away from this situation thinking that Earthworks mics are lousy or noisy!


You have not said what micpres you are planning on using with these mics. A very important part of your decision.

[GearGuy]

Oh yeah...

Earthworks has a small network of dealers. I'm sure most if not all will let you return the mics and give you a full refund if they don't work out. Not quite "try before you buy" but you can make certain they will work for you.

[ISedlacek]

Originally posted by GearGuy
[
You have not said what micpres you are planning on using with these mics. A very important part of your decision. [/B]

The same important as an AD convertor

[kidtexas]

Originally posted by GearGuy
Jeez... I'll go to bad for Earthworks. They are incredible microphones. Noise is never been a problem for me. I think that somebody needs to clarify what they are talking about in regards to noise with the earthworks. Are we talking about audible noise or looking at the specs...

...I just don't think that it is fair to come away from this situation thinking that Earthworks mics are lousy or noisy!


You have not said what micpres you are planning on using with these mics. A very important part of your decision.

I hear you. This is exactly why I was asking about the Earthworks and their noise. I can see the specs that say the Earthworks have a higher self noise, but I can also see that they put out a bit more signal. To be honest that doesn't do me much good. I'd much rather hear from personal experience.

Micpre would most likely be a Metric Halo ULN2 for now.

The guys on the Metric Halo list RAVE about the earthworks, thats what initially got me thinking about them.

Eager to hear more.

[toledo3]

Originally posted by mr.gefell
please consider josephson c606b with optional capsules from bruel kjar,aco pacific,gefell and GRAS,IF you are doing close pick up and critical
recordings.the sound is clean,high defined,flat and minimum
distortion.

Can you mount an M7 on the 606 or 609?

[mr.gefell]

nope sorry.only instrumentation capsule which require 200 volt polarazation,the standard mic body fits direct with half inch capsules
like gefell mk221 ,mk202 bruel kjaer 4191 4192 etc.Via adaptors threads you can add 1 inch capsules like mk 102( the gefell m296 uses a modified version if it,the diaphragm is less tensioned to allow less polarazation voltage),b&k 4145 etc.You could probably use adaptor in use with 1/4 inch capsules as well.Like fletcher said it's a very cool amplifier.

[MattiMattMatt]

You just gotta love Earthworks. It's like Grace in the face of Millenia -- you just gotta love the newcomer nice guys who make a great product at a great price.

But the answer is Schoeps.



mattiMattmatt

[vsimmons]

Where do you guys think that Neumann KM's fit in here?

[Ted Nightshade]

Originally posted by vsimmons
Where do you guys think that Neumann KM's fit in here?

If you mean the KM184's and that, personally I think they are from hell. Only good thing is that you can sell 'em for most of what you bought 'em for no problem. Tinny things.

I've done some recordings of creeks, crickets, etc., and noise is a serious, serious issue! Mic pre noise is a lot of it, and you need mucho gain- 50 dB of gain has only taken me to -30dB digital, many times!

For field work, small diaphragm omnis are the mic design most impervious to air movement and wind noise, which is a biggie for sure. LDs have lower self noise and more output, but too vulnerable to wind noise to be much use outside, unless you're really lucky. I've been lucky, it's nice while it lasts!

I've been looking at DPA 4003s for a long time, but I think I'll most likely be going with Schoeps.

[oudplayer]

Another vote for DPAs - though I have found the Josephsons, Schoeps, and Earthworks to work at times in the same applications. I'm kind of diggin' the Josephsons these days, though for a while Earthworks were at the center of my classical recording rig.

I haven't had that much of a problem with the self-noise of the Earthworks, mainly since the venues I've used for location recording have had a latent air conditioning noise which is louder than the mic's self noise, equally picked up by all these makes of mics.

KM184s are really, really colored, and I think overpriced (even when bought used on ebay). I think they're not much better (if better at all) than the <$100 Marshall 603s!

[sdelsolray]

Originally posted by kidtexas
If the Earthworks really aren't in the class of performance that the Schoeps/DPA's are in, etc, then I think the extra money is worth it. However, if it is a matter of taste, thats a different matter.
:D

It's not that the Earthworks are of a "lesser" sonic quality. They are in there with the Schoeps and DPAs (actually closer sounding to the DPAs). They do have a noise issue, however. Other than that, you Might consider them peers.

[kidtexas]

Originally posted by sdelsolray
It's not that the Earthworks are of a "lesser" sonic quality. They are in there with the Schoeps and DPAs (actually closer sounding to the DPAs). They do have a noise issue, however. Other than that, you Might consider them peers.

hmmm.... Things to consider. thanks.

[kevinc]

How much of a noise issue are we talking about here with the Earthworks ?

Is it an issue compared to a U99 say or a real 47 or just an issue when compared to the other super clean mics in this class ?

[BattleAngel]

I swear by my Earthworks SR69 and TC30k microphones. In terms of noise, I don't notice any w/ the 69, and while the 30k has some self noise issues, it is no worse than other mics that will be used in a rock recording- I certainly don't feel that it is an issue in that context and the rich, realistic sound of the mics is uncompromised. I've never done any field recording or classical recordings so I can't comment about their usability in that context- but I can't imagine the Earthworks being a slouch. They are a top notch product with absolutely phenomenal support, and they are crafted by a very cool group of people. I know that I could do a whole record with a couple SR69s, and the sonics would be just fine.

[PRS1JAZZ]

OK.... here I come..... again.....


Yes there is a little, and I mean little, self noise on the Q's and the 30's.... but it is not a huge issue by far. Hear them for yourself. I think you would be surprised. Thats what I tell everyone...... grab a pair..... if they dont fit the bill, send them back (doubtful). They really are one of those hidden jems in industry. Check em out!