Microphone contemplation - what's a great addition to complement Schoeps ?

[squeegybug]

Hi Ivo,

I've recommended to you before, and will just throw it out here again even though a pair are beyond your stated budget:






Sanken CU-44X


Transformerless, dual titanium condenser capsules (small diaphragm mounted above a large diaphragm), textbook cardioid pattern.

$4200 / ~EU3000 for a pair, including the custom 100V power supply that will run two mics.

Peter Asher, George Massenburg, Frank Filipetti are some who endorse this mic, if that means anything to you.

I made comparison recordings on steel string guitars using only a single mic, with Schoeps CMC6-MK21 and MK2S, Gefell M296, M930, M300, AT4051A and 4053A, AT4050, T.H.E. TT-3M, Sony C48, Neumann M 149, AEA R84, Sanken CU-41 and CU-44X, and many others. All through Gordon/Lavry.

The Sanken CU-44X stood out clearly as the most unique, resonant sounding mic I have ever used. Clear and balanced, yet harmonically rich, with a very emotional sound. Just a pleasure to hear. I'll search and see if I can find any old takes, but still would not mean much to you given your sources and material.

I have not purchased them yet, but they are definitely on my wish list. Well worth trying sometime, IMO.


Steve

[ISedlacek]

Hi Steve,

yes, I remember your hint. But they are cardioids and I somehow try to get less focused and more spacy rendering of instruments ... Second - it is impossible to get them here to try, no one carries them around, not even in Germany it seems ... Anyway, I just wrote to Sanken, whether they would be willing to send me a pair of CU44X for evaluation ... So let us see what they say ...

[squeegybug]

Ah, but cardioids can vary. Take a look at the off-axis response of the CU-44X:





http://www.sanken.ch/english/graf-44.htm


Down perhaps only 5 dB at 90°. At all frequencies. That is not a typical pattern that many cardioid mics can support.


Here is a European Sanken distributor in Switzerland, RTG Akustik AG: http://www.sanken.ch/english/rtg.htm



Besides, any company with the balls to make this mic deserves serious consideration:






Steve

[ISedlacek]

Let us see. Seems it is good for "fast transients" kind of things ... I found also following type of comments about it:

Originally Posted by Celloman

I used the CU-44x for many years on classical and jazz projects, but finally sold it due to the slight metallic character it had. Definately shines on percussive sounds like piano, drums, guitar... but not my favorite for strings.

Mike Mermagen

Strings are definitely very sensitive point for me ...

[blaugruen7]

LOL


i love the music of your sound example ivo!!!

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by blaugruen7

LOL


i love the music of your sound example ivo!!!

I love it too ... He has been my highly favourite musician for years. A true musical "mystic". And the way he plays guitar is beyond believing..Sometimes it seems 2-3 guitars are playing at the same time ...

[blaugruen7]

its very emotional, melancholic and no bit kitschy.
just what the doctor orders!
:-)
i want to drive slowly through green landscape in a cabrio with my girl friend RIGHT NOW!

[davebl@dircon.c]

Ivo,

Would the Gefell M7 variants be of interest to you. I was thinking of the UM70S or may be UM800. They are LDC though. I also thought the M222 Schoeps body was a great idea having heard on recently.

Dave

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by davebl@dircon.c

Ivo,

Would the Gefell M7 variants be of interest to you. I was thinking of the UM70S or may be UM800. They are LDC though. I also thought the M222 Schoeps body was a great idea having heard on recently.

Dave

Not sure about Gefell LDC ... M222 - yes, but they ask incredible money for it ...

[T.RayBullard]

Ivo, why not contact peter drefahl and ask him about Gefell m582s?? Those are one of his specialties and they really sound wonderful too. They are tube and sound particularly great on acoustic instruments.

www.drefahlaudio.com


info@pdrefahl.de


info@drefahlaudio.com

[squeegybug]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

Let us see. Seems it is good for "fast transients" kind of things ... I found also following type of comments about it:

(-snip-)

Strings are definitely very sensitive point for me ...

One man's treasure and all. Why not instead choose to believe the very next comment in that same thread you referenced:

Originally Posted by Haiku

I have owned and used a Sanken CU44X for many years now and it is my favourite mic bar none. It is certainly less 'coloured' than many other mics, especially vintage Neumanns but it's attention to detail is quite incredible, particularly in the all important mid-range area, it really does reveal levels of detail that other mics just cannot match. They are something of a very well kept secret in the UK and US for some reason, although they have been Japan's finest microphone manufacturer for many years now.

Or -- use your own experience, as you always do anyway of course. It certainly may not suit whatever you seek. But it is a fairly unique, serious microphone, as are most of the Sanken line. I think they are perhaps a little more recognized in the film and theater industries, and are not quite part of the standard GS mantra.

Steve

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by squeegybug

One man's treasure and all. Why not instead choose to believe the very next comment in that same thread you referenced:



Or -- use your own experience, as you always do anyway of course. It certainly may not suit whatever you seek. But it is a fairly unique, serious microphone, as are most of the Sanken line. I think they are perhaps a little more recognized in the film and theater industries, and are not quite part of the standard GS mantra.

Steve

Sure, I would definitely love try them. Seems not very easy so far. I contacted both Sanken and teh Swiss distributor, no response yet. Waiting for it.

[mr.gefell]

i don't think milab or pearl are represented in your area,maybe you should become a dealer?

[ISedlacek]

Just listened again to my rather chaotic plucking the classical guitar which I did some time ago when having R88 here. R88 vs Schoeps. After listening to it repeatedly now, something tells me I should maybe run to the shop and get the R88 back here for a permanent residence ... What do you think ? Seems to sound fuller and sweeter than Schoeps ... which have more details on the other hand ... But would I have a courage to record a serious full CD of solo classical guitar on R88 ?

CLASSICAL GUITAR:

R88

1

2

3


SCHOEPS MK4V:

1

2

[RobAnderson]

Have you tried the regular MK4 capsule? The MK4V has a HF boost which might explain your dislike.

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by RobAnderson

Have you tried the regular MK4 capsule? The MK4V has a HF boost which might explain your dislike.

I tried ... There is no "dislike". This just the general rendering (in similar mood done by MK21 and MK2) - which I actually like ... but for example on classical guitar, I think I miss something ...

[billgennaro]

R88 = warmer, more realistic to my ears

Schoeps = more detail

both sound great, can't go wrong either way. two different sounds. nice to have both palettes to choose from.

bill

[naturalstudio]

Hi Ivo,

The main issue with condensers seems to be the way they relate surface noise, nail noise and nail ricochet. The guitar sound never seems cohesive - it's as if there are two layers of sound fighting against each other. With ribbons, although perhaps less spacey than a spaced pair of SDC, it feels like I'm hearing a complete sound.

Have you tried the Coles 4040 yet? You might find them a bit dark, but they flatter classical guitar in all the right ways. For what it's worth, this album (http://www.naturalstudio.co.uk/shop/...d&productId=20) uses a pair in Blumlein. The guitar and hall were quite dark and I felt it was very accurate to the live sound.

P.S. mic'ing as close as it sounds like you are in the clips, you'll always get overly exagerated treble/nail noise.

[sunflute]

The R88 samples sound very musical and natural, very pleasing to the ear without lacking anything. Thank you

[MichaelPatrick]

The Josephson C617SET (has a Gefell MK221 1/2 inch omni capsule) is killer for instruments. I use an AEA R88 all the time, Schoeps, Earthworks, Royer. The Josephsons don't have a condenser sound and they resolve more detail than Schoeps. And quiet? Wow. The noise floor is so far under the preamp (Grace, LaChapell, DACs) that the bottom is endless.

It's the best instrument and hall microphone I've ever heard. You hear the entire natural tail of a hall fade off without any noise coming up or "tone" clouding over. I wish I had rights to post some samples.

[VukOnCrack]

Originally Posted by naturalstudio

Have you tried the Coles 4040 yet? You might find them a bit dark, but they flatter classical guitar in all the right ways. For what it's worth, this album (http://www.naturalstudio.co.uk/shop/...d&productId=20) uses a pair in Blumlein. The guitar and hall were quite dark and I felt it was very accurate to the live sound.

Wow. Flattering? Your description was dead-on. Beautiful. Thank you.

[MichaelPatrick]

Try an R88 with a DACS micamp. Getting that much detail and clarity out of a quality ribbon like an R88 is simply magical.

[ISedlacek]

Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick

Try an R88 with a DACS micamp. Getting that much detail and clarity out of a quality ribbon like an R88 is simply magical.

Maybe Flamingo would do as well ?

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

Maybe Flamingo would do as well ?

I don't know the Flamingo, but I imagine for it to get even close to the speed and clarity of a DACS you'd have to run it in a transparent mode.

The DACS is faster and more transparent than Millenia. Its transient speed brings clarity to the ribbon mic's top end, which is really sweet on an R88. If I were doing a plucked string instrument with an R88 I'd want a truly hypertransparent pre in the chain behind it.

[T.RayBullard]

amen to that. They are the most valued mics I own..just stunning.

Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick

The Josephson C617SET (has a Gefell MK221 1/2 inch omni capsule) is killer for instruments. I{SNIP}.

[Plush]

I am recommending the Pearl CC22 cardioid mics.

the sound is super extended in the treble without harshness and the super large surface area of the diaphragm lends a weight to the sound. Wonderful on voice.
Super on acoustic instruments where it truly conveys the sound of wood resonating.

As an alternative to modern Schoeps, just go old tube. Km53, M221B, Km56, Neumann 369.
We have M222's here and they are good. However, they are not sounding as thick and tubey as the old tube mikros.

[roonsbane]

I have promised myself that some day I will get up the cash for 2 schoeps 222 tube preamps as an alternative to my CMC-6 bodies. I know they are expensive but after hearing them you may discover that this might be exactly what you are looking for. Just a gorgeous sound. They really take some of that stridency off of strings. I really appreciate flexibility in a mic line. Like all of the DPA Balls and grids for their omni's. Very flexible.

Cameron