Live Recording Setup

[Graeme86]

I was just wondering what people used to record live gigs. With this I specifically mean only the recording side of things, as to not interfere with the mix engineer. I'm looking to record mainly my own projects but I tend to get a few jobs around schools and local venues.

For example, I'm looking at getting a HD24 and a few Octopre LE's. Is this a good option or should I pursue the Laptop approach? - I'm after recording around 24 channels (obviously).

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

[joelpatterson]

Sounds like a plan. I've grown to love my Octopre LE, recognizing in the wrong hands it can tend to brightness and shizzle, but holy crap life is not a fvcking walk through a rose garden, Willis!

Never had the slightest doubt than my HD24's would work when I hit "record," I can't say I feel so sure about a laptop, any laptop.

[Graeme86]

Hi, I posted this thread in the 'so much gear so little time' forum and was redirected here to find out what I'm after.

I was just wondering what people used to record live gigs. With this I specifically mean only the recording side of things, as to not interfere with the mix engineer. I'm looking to record mainly my own projects but I tend to get a few jobs around schools and local venues.

For example, I'm looking at getting a HD24 and a few Octopre LE's. Is this a good option or should I pursue the Laptop approach? - I'm after recording around 24 channels (obviously).

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

[Gilliland]

Originally Posted by Graeme86

I was just wondering what people used to record live gigs. With this I specifically mean only the recording side of things, as to not interfere with the mix engineer. I'm looking to record mainly my own projects but I tend to get a few jobs around schools and local venues.

For example, I'm looking at getting a HD24 and a few Octopre LE's. Is this a good option or should I pursue the Laptop approach?

I use the HD24XR and three eight channel mic pres for my work. It's an ideal platform for this purpose. I use the Studio Projects SP82 rather than the Octopre, mostly because they give me the ability to do a rough mix for monitoring. With the Octopre, you'll need some other method (probably an external mixer) to be able to hear what you're recording.

You'll also need some method of splitting the mic signals from the house system. Some clubs may have a split that you can use, but you'll probably need your own at least some of the time. There are many threads around here about the splitter topic, so read some of those for guidance.

[Jim vanBergen]

1) SPLITTER!
2) mic preamps
3) recording medium
4) add'l microphones for audience + anything you don't get from FOH split

Personally, I mostly use a dedicated 24-ch hard disc recorder (and a backup) instead of a laptop. I then import the files into ProTools and move on from there. I have found this to be incredibly stable.

When I am doing more than 24 tracks, I rent a ProTools HD3 48 channel system and use my two hard disc recorders as the backup.

Hope this helps!

[bishopthomas]

I am in the process of selling my computer interface and going with an HD24 and preamps. I have found that a computer is just not stable enough for my purposes. When you only get one shot you don't want your recording medium to go south. I am currently working on a 58 channel splitter with multipin Mass connectors. Check it out here:

Multipin PITA

Not to hijack the thread, but the original poster might be interested to. What other 8 channel preamps are out there that allow you to do a cue mix? I'm trying to avoid purchasing a mixer. Also, is there any way of monitoring off the HD24? I don't see any mix outs on it, so how do you check your channels to make sure they're all getting the correct (and clean) signal?

[AllBread]

It seems like we all agree that the HD24 is a good way to go. I have three of them and they are great (knock on wood). The HD24 has both analog and lightpipe out per channel and they are both active at the same time. The easiest way to monitor (though probably not the cheapest) is to get a digital console that has lightpipe in and hook it up that way to monitor your inputs and do a reference mix.

I admit that times when I've only had eight inputs and they didn't need a reference mix, I sat there plugging my headphone amp two channels at a time into the outputs to make sure everything was clean.

Either way, I would stay away from laptops and get a dedicated hard disc recorded like the HD24. I use the Presonus pres and they work fine. Of course, you can get as fancy as you want with your mic pres and either use the TRS ins of the HD24 or buy external convertors.

[Graeme86]

cheers for the response guys.

the thing is that i might be able to get a really good deal on the octopre's so like bishopthomas, i'd like to know if there are any other ways of monitoring from the hd24 as i'm not too keen on getting a digital console. perhaps an alternative hd recorder...

oh, and gilliland, what's the difference between the hd24 and the xr version? i cant seem to find out.

thanks again, this is really helpful.

[tnjazz]

Originally Posted by Graeme86

cheers for the response guys.

the thing is that i might be able to get a really good deal on the octopre's so like bishopthomas, i'd like to know if there are any other ways of monitoring from the hd24 as i'm not too keen on getting a digital console. perhaps an alternative hd recorder...

oh, and gilliland, what's the difference between the hd24 and the xr version? i cant seem to find out.

thanks again, this is really helpful.

I'm not Gilliland, but the difference between the HD24 and the XR model is that the XR has a much better A/D board in it. So if you're doing your A/D conversion at the recorder you'd ideally want the XR model.

If you get the Octopres with A/D cards, you can go lightpipe in and use the conversion in the Octopres.

I go lightpipe into my HD24, so I opted to not spring for the XR model.

[henryrobinett]

I'm in the "laptop" crowd. There has been issues in the past with crash and hard rive problems. I had a hard drive crash and in another case a wayward bass player spilt coffee on the computer, closing the session and ruining my it. Other than those two things I've recorded well over 30/40 remote sessions with nary a problem. Many of them my own groups.

I use Metric Halo 2882 and ULN-2 interfaces with Millennia pres. A splitter would be a great idea. I don't have one, other than a little Horizon four channel splitter. I use, with FOH engineers I know, the split from the Metric Halo boxes. Have to set it up at sound check and not touch the volume or the FOH and monitors will get confused.

I've learned to bring an extra hard drive with a mirrored OS in case of crash. I bring my own mics, being a snob.

[macleod]

i just got rid of my hd24, it was the most unreliable piece of crap that i have ever owned. I sold it and bought a used tascam mx2424 ( totally different league ) and i am now very happy. When on location i also take the digital outs of the tascam into my computer and record to both for a backup.

Sometime if i am an a really resonant venue and the sound is really heavy Hard disks just cant be used due to the vibrations. at times like that its good to get out the old tascam da88s. you can pick up the da88 for next to nothing on ebay,

K

[valleysound]

I use an HD24 with (3) Digimax 96k via ADAT in. Then the inputs go to my 01V96 for monitoring/live mix purposes. The analog outs from the pres go into a couple of Metric Halo 2882's. The thing I love about this setup, for a small fry like me, is that with good monitoring and mixing with the 01V96, I can make an on the fly mix, if I'm not already mixing live, for the band to take home that night and review of their performance, which can help them decide what tracks to do the final mix for, without any extra time spent by me.
I use the Digimax for the stage inputs and if I have enough channels, the room as well. Or I use the pres on the 01V96 to get a few more channels that go ADAT into the MH 2882's.
Not shown is the splitter snake which is a definite must.

[mrsteaks]

Wouldn't you know that I just posted a topic SIMILAR to this one. Oh, well.

Anyway, I also use an HD-24. Someone said "unreliable piece of crap". Mine hasn't been, ever. I bought it right after Alesis released it, and it's been totally reliable, and quite roadable. I route signals into it from my ADL pre, TRP, Grace, Mackie, whatever, then monitor through a Mackie 1604VLZ. I would love it if my budget allowed for some wonderful ADC's to send lightpipe to the HD-24, but on it's own, it sounds good. I hear the XR sounds better, but I've never heard one.

I also use a Masterlink, at 88.2/24 for two track gigs. Works fine, even sounds decent (I do wish I could say "pristine" - still searching for that).

I've tried the laptop route, using Adobe Audition under Win XP SP2. Can you spell "CRASH"? It only has to happen once. None of the dedicated HD recorders I use has ever crashed on me.

~~~~Mark S.
PGR Media/Pretty Good Recordings

[bishopthomas]

I use Adobe Audition as well and have never been able to record over 1.5 hours without crashing. I think it's a glitch in my copy of software because it does it on multiple computers, multiple interfaces, but Cubase works fine. It has made me give up on computer-based recording, though, and that is why I'm buying an HD24. Anyone want to trade theirs for a MOTU 8Pre, KMS105, and some cash? :)

My plan is to have two HD systems that can be used together for additional channels. I have a 58 channel splitter (just have to finish wiring it), so all the channels would go into preamps then to the HD24 in the 14-space rack I have. After I have the one rack put together then I will duplicate it so that I can either have a backup or 48 tracks. It's going to take some time, but I can't wait to be fully up and running.

As far as monitoring, I guess I'll have to have a digital board at some point. I am trying to keep the rig as small as possible and would like to go without a console, but it looks like I'll have to have one for monitoring. For my upcoming projects I'll just have to check each line individually from the outputs of the HD24.

[Gilliland]

Yes, it seems that you've gotten your answers, but I'll reiterate:

The difference between the HD24 and the HD24XR is the A/D and D/A converters. The XR unit is far superior in that area, but otherwise the units are identical. But even if you're planning to come into it digitally, I'd still recommend the XR unit. It will keep your options open and it will hold its resale value better.

The HD24 is probably the most reliable piece of gear that I've ever encountered. It has never failed me in any way. Absolutely 100% reliable for every gig I've ever recorded in the last five plus years. Mine was one of the very first units out the door back in 2001.

I upgraded my HD24 to XR status via the EC-2 upgrade from Alesis. I'm very glad I made the switch - the old converters are perfectly OK, but the new ones are quite noticeably better - even at 44.1 and 48 K.

I don't know of any other eight channel mic pres that carry a mix bus. The other option is to get a digital 24 channel mixer with lightpipe inputs so you can mix directly from the HD24's outputs. I've done that on occasion when necessary, but I try not to bring any more gear than necessary.

[bishopthomas]

How much is the upgrade? I may end up buying the non-XR since that is what shows up the most on the used market. Then I can always upgrade later; I didn't know this was an option. How do the converters compare with some of the 8 channel preamps/AD converters that are out there (if that's a fair comparison)?

[tnjazz]

Originally Posted by bishopthomas

How much is the upgrade? I may end up buying the non-XR since that is what shows up the most on the used market. Then I can always upgrade later; I didn't know this was an option.

EC-2 kits run about $700 last time I checked. All you have to do is pop the top on the recorder and swap the boards. I've never done it but it looks pretty easy in the instructions.

[MichaelPatrick]

Originally Posted by bishopthomas

I may end up buying the non-XR since that is what shows up the most on the used market. Then I can always upgrade later; I didn't know this was an option. How do the converters compare with some of the 8 channel preamps/AD converters that are out there (if that's a fair comparison)?

If you can, get the factory-installed XR converters for $500 more. That'll ensure it's installed right, and having "HD24XR" silkscreened on the front panel raises the unit's resale value. I think it would be a shame to get such a great little recorder without putting great converters in the box too. The XR option not only lets you record at 88.2 or 96, it also makes 44.1 and 44 recordings sound MUCH better.

I also have EMM/Meitner, Aurora and Grace converters -- and unless I AB them, the XRs are practically indistinguishable -- probably 80% or 90% as good as the big dogs. I was simply stunned at how good they are for the money.

[mrsteaks]

Originally Posted by Gilliland

The HD24 is probably the most reliable piece of gear that I've ever encountered. It has never failed me in any way. Absolutely 100% reliable for every gig I've ever recorded in the last five plus years. Mine was one of the very first units out the door back in 2001.

I agree completely. My HD24 is also a 2001 model, and it has never, ever given me even a hint of trouble, despite spending its whole life being moved around. Sometimes moved roughly, at that!

~~~~Mark S.
PGR media

[rec to go]

Hi all

I have 2 diferent systems first I'll describe my old one it works fine but has limitations

2 24 ch 2 way splitters at monitor position (recordng from stage) this gives me beter control of whats going on
3 Roland vs-2480 (the have a 16 track recorder and console
1 1000 ma ups

the new system is

1 48 ch iso splitter 2 way
2 Allen and Heath gl2400 424 linked with syslink and back up power supply
2 adat hd24xr
2 1000 ma ups one for each consle
2 500 ma ups one for each adat
I use the gl2400 as pre amps I like the way they sound if you compare them to the octopre the only thing you are missing is the compressor at each track
I record flat and then transfer to Protools for further post

I allso record on a mini disk a 2 trk pre mix druing the show so I can give it to my client so he can check to see what he will mix or not (note make sure the pre mix doesnt sund greate cause sometimes the will use it as a final mix if it sounds too good nd you will loose the mix later)

allways plug my ac to the monitor ac distro

for audicence I use akg 451 one at each side on stage (dont work excelent but does the job) will love to try some shotgun but dont own any