Comments? Edirol R-4 Pro

[Sound Chaser]

I did a search and I'm surprised there are no threads on the Edirol R-4 Pro, 4 track recorder. I'm thinking of buying this unit for concert recording, field work and Film. Anyone have experience with one? opinions?
Seems like a super machine that does it all. Price: $2K
Link: EDIROL by Roland - R-4 Pro 4-Channel Recorder with SMPTE Time Code and WAVE Editor

[Marlan]

I too am interested in this unit. I have to say it looks quite promising. (a little too good to be true for the price?) I need a high end portable unit as a backup and sometimes main recording device for classical sessions and documentary film work (the time code feature and extra channels for lav's is a big plus for me). Anyone try it?

From my experience, Edirol isn't really in the highest pantheon of location/field or classical run-out recording gear. This does not mean that this particular unit isn't a good buy. I would love to hear from people who have used it and convince me it's not a cheapo plastic wannabe Sound Devices 744T unit that's going to break in a year.

I'm trying to get one of each for a demo and will of course post results on this forum for anyone who is interested. I should note that for all classical work I will be using whichever unit I choose with outboard mic pre's and a/d converters.

Thanks

[mosrite]

I am also very interested in this unit and cannot find anything solid about it. Anyone from Edirol here?

I would need to know;

1. If it 're-samples' the incoming digital signal. The original R4 did that. Not very pro...

2. If you can record 2 channels of digital through the AES and 2 analogue channels whilst succesfully clockng to the digital source.

If anyone knows the answers to these then I would be very appreciative.

[mosrite]

Just managed to download the manual. It seems you can record 2 channels of digital and anlogue simultaneously. It also seems to be able to take clock from the digital device.

As for the 'resampling,' who knows...

[roonsbane]

I am interested in the edirol as well though I don't believe that I would need the pro version since I don't need SMPTE. I need a 24 bit safety machine and this looks very promising. For me it would always be fed by a digital input on one pair and line level on the other pair. The "resampling" thing is something I have never heard of. Re-clocking yes. Re-sampling no. So the device takes all of these ones and zero's as they stream in and needs to resample them? For What? Where does it give any information about this re-sampling thing that it is doing. How were the line level inputs on the non pro unit when you used the R4 Bryan?

Cameron

[mosrite]

The "resampling" thing is something I have never heard of. Re-clocking yes. Re-sampling no. So the device takes all of these ones and zero's as they stream in and needs to resample them? For What? Where does it give any information about this re-sampling thing that it is doing.

Well I never really got to the bottom of it either. Try this thread for a headache;
Digital Clone or not?

I concluded that references to 're-sampling' are referring to SRC being always active on a device.

I remember discounting the R4 after a call to Edirol UK where, after much deliberation, they concluded that it either doesn't clock properly or does some kind of SRC to an incoming digital signal.

[JP66]

I use the edirol r4 standard as a field recorder, and there are quite a few other concert tapers using these units. I used the unit for about 8 months and then I had the pre amp section modified by Doug Oade earlier this year. His mod significantly improved the pre amp section for my uses. Before the mod the unit was just passable after the mod it's a great all in on recorder. Just plug in some mics and press record.

I've heard from owners of the R-4 pro that the preamp section was improved. in fact I know two individuals who do modifications to the pre amp section and both of them have commented on the vast difference between the pre section on the standard and the Pro. I would probably step up to the pro, but to be honest only one of the features it offers is really of any value to me, and that is the ability to simultaneously record from a digital and analog sources (the standard can not do that).

As far as resampling goes I'm not too sure about the technological reasons behind it. what I can tell you is that there is no audible difference between the signal before and after it is resampled. I've use the digital in of the R-4 to copy a few DAT tapes from a friend of mine, and upon play back through a nice high end system I can hear no difference between the original and the copy.

[tapersteve]

Originally Posted by mosrite

Just managed to download the manual. It seems you can record 2 channels of digital and anlogue simultaneously. It also seems to be able to take clock from the digital device.

As for the 'resampling,' who knows...

To clarify a little, the original R-4 resampled the incoming digital signal, i.e. it did not lock to the bit depth or sample rate of the incoming signal, it converted and then resampled it. So you could theoretically have a 24/96 input, and record it at 16/44.1

The R-4 Pro (which I own) takes the digital signal, without resampling it. If you have the deck set to record at 24/96 and your input is accidentally set at 24/48, it won't start, until the sample rate matches.

Further, you can record two digital channels via the AES/EBU and two analogue channels simultaneously. There was some discussion and concern that arose about possible drift between the digital channels, being controlled by the incoming wordclock, and the analogue channels, thought to be controlled by the R-4 Pro. I personally asked Edirol tech support, who contacted Japan for the answer. In such situations, once you introduce a digital input, all of the channels are locked to the wordclock of the digital input device.

On the other hand, I have had a number of technical issues with this machine, that are causing me significant concern. I had the pres modded before I bought it, and have run it with a Lunatec V3 and just solo, and with the upgraded pres, the sound is extremely good.

Yes it's half the cost of a 744, but I am learning that to some extent, you get what you pay for. I am considering a 2/4 track option of a 722 and something like a MicroTrack, with a V3 to control the wordclock on the 722.

[mosrite]

Thanks Steve, that confirms what I thought.

We are perhaps in a similar boat. I need nore than 2 channels. I need the device to be able to take 2 analogue and 2 digital channels at the same time and...I cant afford a 744t

Yes it's half the cost of a 744, but I am learning that to some extent, you get what you pay for. I am considering a 2/4 track option of a 722 and something like a MicroTrack, with a V3 to control the wordclock on the 722.

Is this your solution to what I am also referring to? How would you sync these 2 devices to record to achieve 2 simultaneous tracks? (and I dont mean digitally sync)

[Rob23xyz]

I've read about using an external mixer with the R4Pro, but the XLR mic inputs do not have a line level setting, so I presume anything you plug in will go through the onboard mic preamps. Anyone use the R4Pro with an external mixer?

[boojum]

I believe that NorseHorse uses these to record with. Hopefully he will chime in. Gutbucket, too.

[Rob23xyz]

Doesn't anyone here run a field mixer into an R4 Pro?

[leddy]

I have not had an R4 pro, but I had a regular R4 and I have 2 R44's. I've used an external mixer going in to the R44 when I was doing live sound and recording. AFAIK there is no way to bypass the internal pres unless you use the digital input. I've also stuck other preamps in front of the R44 when using ribbon mics. It's never been an issue for me as long as I watch the gain staging.

[Rob23xyz]

I gather you haven't noticed additional noise when going through two pre's instead of straight into th R4?

(added) Would I need to use an inline pad to "cool" the signal before bringing it in? Seems a bit silly to pad and then boost a signal. What else can I do when I need more than four mics on a shoot?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...ith_Phase.html

[NorseHorse]

Originally Posted by boojum

I believe that NorseHorse uses these to record with. Hopefully he will chime in. Gutbucket, too.

I use R44s. I feed them with all sorts of levels from many different preamps. They are transparent, basically invisible. I would assume the same is true of the R4s.

[Rob23xyz]

B&H has recommended various inline pads and attenuators, but I don't think they know the R4Pro. Can you basically just cool the signals coming in by dialing down the sensitivity or level controls on the R4Pro. My understanding is the regular R4 (not the Pro) has a line/mic selector. I just sent an email to Roland Systems Group for their take.

[leddy]

Originally Posted by Rob23xyz

I gather you haven't noticed additional noise when going through two pre's instead of straight into th R4?

(added) Would I need to use an inline pad to "cool" the signal before bringing it in? Seems a bit silly to pad and then boost a signal. What else can I do when I need more than four mics on a shoot?

M-Audio Mic Pad with Phase Inverter 9900-52472-00 B&H Photo

Noise has not been an issue for me. Now if you were sticking a noisy mixer in front of it, then you might have an issue. I don't think you would need to pad the input if you are careful setting levels.

If you need more channels and time code, your choices are going to be slim unless you have the budget for the SD788T or something.

[Rob23xyz]

Thanks for the replies. I'm still waiting to hear back from Roland. But the guy I buy stuff from at Full Compass is pretty certain from the specs that the sensitivity control can be used to dial in any level from dynamic mic to line level - without using some external pad or attenuator. The mixer I want to use with it is a Soundcraft EPM6 a friend is selling dirt cheap. He says the pre's on it are quite decent.

BTW, my R4Pro does have timecode.

Thanks again!

Rob

[boojum]

Originally Posted by Rob23xyz

But the guy I buy stuff from at Full Compass is pretty certain from the specs that the sensitivity control can be used to dial in any level from dynamic mic to line level - without using some external pad or attenuator.
Rob

Call the company.

[chris319]

According to the specs, the R4 Pro can handle a +4 dBu signal. It seems like they are switching a fixed pad ahead of the mic preamp.

EDIROL R-4 Pro 4-channel Portable Recorder and Wave Editor :: Specifications

[Rob23xyz]

From Roland:

Yes, you can input line-level audio from a mixer by setting the SENS levels of those inputs appropriately (-8, -2 or +4dB). Because line-level audio is "louder" than mic level audio, the likelihood of recording R-4 Pro preamp noise is reduced. (However, you may still have to contend with the preamp noise of whatever preamps your mixer has.)

Most R-4 Pro users employ a mixer because they need to record more than 4 sources, or they want to record a house mix + ambient mics. Other operators have their own preferred high-quality preamps. But in most cases, the high-quality preamps of the R-4 Pro are more than adequate for the majority of multi-mic recordings.

[lamacchiacosta]

I'm actually feeding my R4Pro through the direct outputs of my Sound Devices 552, line level +4dBu and it works great. Another good thing in feeding the recorder this way is that I've got also separate (sound devices) limiters on each channel. The R4Pro onboard ones are pretty crap.

[Rob23xyz]

Yeah, I've noticed — the R4Pro limiters will clip if the actor shouts. I have to ride the levels very carefully with it. My Azden FMX42 mixer does not have limiters though.