I know what I would do...what about you? (downstage audience mics)

postboy · 16th October 2002, 02:04 AM

Here is a picture of one of my gigs, stage left to be more precise. Given that stage right is identicle. where would you place you downstage audience mics?

How high? How far from the stage? What kind of mics would you all use for this application?

Share your ideas!

peace,

bruce

JayCrouch · 17th October 2002, 09:48 PM

Bruce - a few questions

1) what do you have available for the aud mics? Anything super-directional or any shotguns?

2) how many preamps and mic pre's do you have open for the AUD mics?

3) Do you have control of being able to clamp things to a non-moving lighting rig or stack?

Stealing an idea from Mr. Remote himself, you can try clamping mics to the top of a stack, and aiming them towards the section of crowd you want to get. This possibly could work better with stacks that are closer to the audience though, what do you think Steve?

If you have more inputs, doing a pair of two by the stage lip facing the crowd is cool, and doing a stereo pair at the FOH either facing the stage (for the vibe of the whole room and crowd), or facing the back of the arena (for the slap back vibe of the room, and hopefully true fans that paid too much for the shitty seats)

let us know what options you have to go for...

postboy · 17th October 2002, 11:50 PM

Thanks Jay!

I have lots of AKG stuff long(816's) and short (416's) all the usual stuff.

Lotz of mic pres at the split (fiber snake) and I can access the Truss.

Let me know what you think!

peace,

bruce

JayCrouch · 17th October 2002, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by postboy
Thanks Jay!

I have lots of AKG stuff long(816's) and short (416's) all the usual stuff.

bruce

How about getting some ROWI clamps and rigging the 816s to the lowest part of the lighting rig, or bottom speaker of the stack, aimed somewhere in the middle of the front section. The you can use a pair of the 416s at FOH either facing the stage to get a vibe of how the PA mix sounded in the room (if you want to go for a true listener's perspective, or just use those again positioned with the mains in the null of the mic to bring up more audience response to help you out at mix)

you may want to check out this thread regarding time adjusting/delay of audience/room mics at mix:

http://gearslutz.com/board/showthrea...&threadid=1101

let us know what you end up doing and how it worked for your mix

**Remoteness** · 18th October 2002, 11:05 AM

If the stacks were on stage, I would possibly clamp the mics or place them on small desk stands (or similar) on top of the stacks. I've also clamped them off the rigging hardware or handles of the inner side of the stack. Aiming them towards the section of crowd you want to get is key. In large arenas, etc., I may mount two 416's per side and a center one downstage behind the vocal monitor wedges.

Based on the picture Bruce provided, I would mount ROWI clamps to the bottom and/or inner side bottom of the flown stacks. It looks like two per side will work best in this situation. One set would point towards the center audience section and the outer pair would point away from the center area. A center mic at DSC by the monitor wedges would be a plus.

Four or five mics spread out across the downstage area works well for me. Adding two to four mics (placed to taste) at FOH will also help add body to the audience soundscape.

Well, that's my angle...

So Bruce, since you already know, "what you would do," why not give us insight on your approach? Inquiring minds want to know.

Also, I believe you mean Sennheiser, not AKG. Both 816's and 416's are Sennheiser models. AKG makes shotguns ... one model number that comes to mind is a C568.

The truss may be too high for what you're going for. How high is the truss anyway? If it makes sense, you could hang mics from the truss, but rig some trick line from a few points, to keep the mics stable and pointed where you want them to go.

Just like Jay said, ROWI clamp the mic rigs to the bottom of the speaker of the stacks and aim them towards the middle of the front section. Like I mentioned above, I would add another pair at the front downstage area, pointing out to the outer sections. I would try to stay away from lighting trusses. Super long mic cable and lighting and/or dimmers usually don't mix too well.

I have used (and will use) shotguns, but I rather use a nice pair of cardioid mics when going for a band sound by pointing them towards the stage. If applicable, I would place shotguns pointing back towards the sh*tty seats if necessary.

I hope this helped.

postboy · 18th October 2002, 03:27 PM

great stuff guyz! what an amazing forum!

Steve (of course I meant Sennheiser...):eek: Typos are fun!!!!

I too like great cardioid mics, e.g. AT4050's that kind of stuff!

I will write more on my technique later...gotta prep for a gig today!

as always...peace

"information is not knowledge, knowledge is not wisdom, wisdom is not truth, truth is not beauty, beauty is not love, love is not music...Music is best!"
fz1979.

**Remoteness** · 25th October 2002, 02:05 AM

Postboy,

What's up? Haven't seen your mic technique post yet.

Waiting to hear what you have to say about it.

Keep us posted

Thanks in advance...

postboy · 29th October 2002, 02:26 AM

Hello to Steve and ALL!

Sorry for the delay in writing a reply to my own quiry, but I have been in a recording and mixing marathon!!! ( 4 days and counting...8am till the weeee hours...YIKES!!! I am not yet finished but will write as soon as I am!

Till then...dreaming of sleep...ahhhh peaceful sleeppppppppppppp.

cheers....

bruce

**Remoteness** · 7th November 2002, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by postboy
Hello to Steve and ALL!

Sorry for the delay in writing a reply to my own quiry, but I have been in a recording and mixing marathon!!! ( 4 days and counting...8am till the weeee hours...YIKES!!! I am not yet finished but will write as soon as I am!

Till then...dreaming of sleep...ahhhh peaceful sleeppppppppppppp.

cheers....

bruce

Bruce,

Did you you finish yet? (hint, hint, hint)

postboy · 8th November 2002, 02:20 AM

Hello Steve and all! I finally (yesterday) finished the 1st draft of my new PPV special due to air sometime Q1 2003. It was a very intense record/mix date with lots of deadline pressure and all the usual quirks, but, I am extreamly happy to say that we pulled it off without a single problem! The only thing that came close to a problem was when the opening act (BNA artist Kellie Coffey) drummer thought it might be cute to bash one of my B&K 4011's (on the OVHDS) to smithereens during a passionate drum fill...(big guy...bashes realllllly hard...)

Luckily...the mic survived...my ears and heart..another matter...

Here are some pics...more on the tech side after the sleep thing...

oh...heres the fiber ugliness!!! worked like a freakin charm!

postboy · 8th November 2002, 02:25 AM

boy things can get stupid in a real hurry, can't they??? very small audio room in the truck...

big silly patch bay....

postboy · 8th November 2002, 02:29 AM

but wait i needed to patch more...hellllllllllp me I can't stop!!!!!!

postboy · 8th November 2002, 02:38 AM

the truck was too small to contain my lust for GEAR!!!! so...improvisation is key...

man I felt bad for my operator...it was F(*&*^%^ing cold in the dock!

great for the fire breathin dragon though! My 48input (6 888-24) Pro Tools system. I used a 6 card - Dual 800 mac G4 w/ 1.5 gigs of ram...and 2-80 gig digi firewire drives...ohhhhhhh it was good...!

Oh yeah...more on mic placement later...gotta sleepy sleepy...

**Remoteness** · 8th November 2002, 06:19 AM

Hey, Hey,

Don't say, PT. We don't want to loose you to the PT forum.

Nice pictures. Any wide shots of the CRM? And what about you? Get in front of the lens.

I like the multi colored patch cords. Do you use the colored cords in any special way?

We usually color code our patchs.

Black for compressors, limiters, etc.
Blue for the wet stuff, reverbs, etc.
Red for buss outs.
Yellow for direct outs
Green for outside world stuff...
Or what ever color code that works for the session.

postboy · 9th November 2002, 07:18 AM

Yeah steve...I do like to color code my cables...in the heat of battle in an analogue truck especially! I do much like you but, i kinda size it up by the gig...

here is a shot of our front console...it is a AMEK Recall 56 w/ supertrue and Virtual Dyn. Nice eq...

postboy · 9th November 2002, 07:20 AM

oh yeah...the ass blows out and there is this desk as well...

postboy · 9th November 2002, 07:24 AM

and since you asked...herrrrrrrres johnny...I mean me...last minute check of the opening acts mics...

Moze · 9th November 2002, 07:37 AM

Hmmm....

That looks suspiciously like a crazy-ass I used to work with up in the mountains right off Hell's Peak...

-Moze

**Remoteness** · 9th November 2002, 11:50 PM

Cool pictures!

Questions:

Is one console position dedicaded to the music mix and the other to the broadcast mix and comm needs?

Are they both in the same room or are they isolated from each other?

**Remoteness** · 6th December 2002, 05:57 AM

Postboy,

Did you ever tell us if...

The one console position is dedicaded to the music mix and the other to the broadcast mix and comm needs?

Also, are they both in the same room or isolated from each other?

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16th October 2002, 02:04 AM	#1
postboy Gear interested Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Denver, Co Posts: 27	I know what I would do...what about you? Here is a picture of one of my gigs, stage left to be more precise. Given that stage right is identicle. where would you place you downstage audience mics? How high? How far from the stage? What kind of mics would you all use for this application? Share your ideas! peace, bruce Attached Thumbnails

17th October 2002, 09:48 PM	#2
JayCrouch Gear maniac Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: CT Posts: 296	Bruce - a few questions 1) what do you have available for the aud mics? Anything super-directional or any shotguns? 2) how many preamps and mic pre's do you have open for the AUD mics? 3) Do you have control of being able to clamp things to a non-moving lighting rig or stack? Stealing an idea from Mr. Remote himself, you can try clamping mics to the top of a stack, and aiming them towards the section of crowd you want to get. This possibly could work better with stacks that are closer to the audience though, what do you think Steve? If you have more inputs, doing a pair of two by the stage lip facing the crowd is cool, and doing a stereo pair at the FOH either facing the stage (for the vibe of the whole room and crowd), or facing the back of the arena (for the slap back vibe of the room, and hopefully true fans that paid too much for the shitty seats) let us know what options you have to go for... __________________ Jay Crouch Crouch@optonline.net 203-521-9520

18th October 2002, 11:05 AM	#5
Remoteness Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 4,905	If the stacks were on stage, I would possibly clamp the mics or place them on small desk stands (or similar) on top of the stacks. I've also clamped them off the rigging hardware or handles of the inner side of the stack. Aiming them towards the section of crowd you want to get is key. In large arenas, etc., I may mount two 416's per side and a center one downstage behind the vocal monitor wedges. Based on the picture Bruce provided, I would mount ROWI clamps to the bottom and/or inner side bottom of the flown stacks. It looks like two per side will work best in this situation. One set would point towards the center audience section and the outer pair would point away from the center area. A center mic at DSC by the monitor wedges would be a plus. Four or five mics spread out across the downstage area works well for me. Adding two to four mics (placed to taste) at FOH will also help add body to the audience soundscape. Well, that's my angle... So Bruce, since you already know, "what you would do," why not give us insight on your approach? Inquiring minds want to know. Also, I believe you mean Sennheiser, not AKG. Both 816's and 416's are Sennheiser models. AKG makes shotguns ... one model number that comes to mind is a C568. The truss may be too high for what you're going for. How high is the truss anyway? If it makes sense, you could hang mics from the truss, but rig some trick line from a few points, to keep the mics stable and pointed where you want them to go. Just like Jay said, ROWI clamp the mic rigs to the bottom of the speaker of the stacks and aim them towards the middle of the front section. Like I mentioned above, I would add another pair at the front downstage area, pointing out to the outer sections. I would try to stay away from lighting trusses. Super long mic cable and lighting and/or dimmers usually don't mix too well. I have used (and will use) shotguns, but I rather use a nice pair of cardioid mics when going for a band sound by pointing them towards the stage. If applicable, I would place shotguns pointing back towards the sh*tty seats if necessary. I hope this helped. __________________ Steve Remote AuraSonicLtd.com the home of ASL Mobile & Location Production Remoteness on the Linkedin Network Remoteness on Myspace

25th October 2002, 02:05 AM	#7
Remoteness Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 4,905	Postboy, What's up? Haven't seen your mic technique post yet. Waiting to hear what you have to say about it. Keep us posted Thanks in advance... __________________ Steve Remote AuraSonicLtd.com the home of ASL Mobile & Location Production Remoteness on the Linkedin Network Remoteness on Myspace

17th October 2002, 11:50 PM	#3
postboy Gear interested Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Denver, Co Posts: 27	Thanks Jay! I have lots of AKG stuff long(816's) and short (416's) all the usual stuff. Lotz of mic pres at the split (fiber snake) and I can access the Truss. Let me know what you think! peace, bruce

18th October 2002, 03:27 PM	#6
postboy Gear interested Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Denver, Co Posts: 27	great stuff guyz! what an amazing forum! Steve (of course I meant Sennheiser...):eek: Typos are fun!!!! I too like great cardioid mics, e.g. AT4050's that kind of stuff! I will write more on my technique later...gotta prep for a gig today! as always...peace "information is not knowledge, knowledge is not wisdom, wisdom is not truth, truth is not beauty, beauty is not love, love is not music...Music is best!" fz1979.

29th October 2002, 02:26 AM	#8
postboy Gear interested Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Denver, Co Posts: 27	Hello to Steve and ALL! Sorry for the delay in writing a reply to my own quiry, but I have been in a recording and mixing marathon!!! ( 4 days and counting...8am till the weeee hours...YIKES!!! I am not yet finished but will write as soon as I am! Till then...dreaming of sleep...ahhhh peaceful sleeppppppppppppp. cheers.... bruce

8th November 2002, 02:20 AM	#10
postboy Gear interested Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Denver, Co Posts: 27	Hello Steve and all! I finally (yesterday) finished the 1st draft of my new PPV special due to air sometime Q1 2003. It was a very intense record/mix date with lots of deadline pressure and all the usual quirks, but, I am extreamly happy to say that we pulled it off without a single problem! The only thing that came close to a problem was when the opening act (BNA artist Kellie Coffey) drummer thought it might be cute to bash one of my B&K 4011's (on the OVHDS) to smithereens during a passionate drum fill...(big guy...bashes realllllly hard...) Luckily...the mic survived...my ears and heart..another matter... Here are some pics...more on the tech side after the sleep thing... oh...heres the fiber ugliness!!! worked like a freakin charm! Attached Thumbnails

8th November 2002, 02:25 AM	#11
postboy Gear interested Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Denver, Co Posts: 27	boy things can get stupid in a real hurry, can't they??? very small audio room in the truck... big silly patch bay.... Attached Thumbnails

8th November 2002, 02:29 AM	#12
postboy Gear interested Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Denver, Co Posts: 27	but wait i needed to patch more...hellllllllllp me I can't stop!!!!!! Attached Thumbnails

8th November 2002, 02:38 AM	#13
postboy Gear interested Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Denver, Co Posts: 27	the truck was too small to contain my lust for GEAR!!!! so...improvisation is key... man I felt bad for my operator...it was F(&^%^ing cold in the dock! great for the fire breathin dragon though! My 48input (6 888-24) Pro Tools system. I used a 6 card - Dual 800 mac G4 w/ 1.5 gigs of ram...and 2-80 gig digi firewire drives...ohhhhhhh it was good...! Oh yeah...more on mic placement later...gotta sleepy sleepy... Attached Thumbnails

8th November 2002, 06:19 AM	#14
Remoteness Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 4,905	Hey, Hey, Don't say, PT. We don't want to loose you to the PT forum. Nice pictures. Any wide shots of the CRM? And what about you? Get in front of the lens. I like the multi colored patch cords. Do you use the colored cords in any special way? We usually color code our patchs. Black for compressors, limiters, etc. Blue for the wet stuff, reverbs, etc. Red for buss outs. Yellow for direct outs Green for outside world stuff... Or what ever color code that works for the session. __________________ Steve Remote AuraSonicLtd.com the home of ASL Mobile & Location Production Remoteness on the Linkedin Network Remoteness on Myspace

9th November 2002, 07:18 AM	#15
postboy Gear interested Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Denver, Co Posts: 27	Yeah steve...I do like to color code my cables...in the heat of battle in an analogue truck especially! I do much like you but, i kinda size it up by the gig... here is a shot of our front console...it is a AMEK Recall 56 w/ supertrue and Virtual Dyn. Nice eq... Attached Thumbnails

9th November 2002, 07:20 AM	#16
postboy Gear interested Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Denver, Co Posts: 27	oh yeah...the ass blows out and there is this desk as well... Attached Thumbnails

9th November 2002, 07:24 AM	#17
postboy Gear interested Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Denver, Co Posts: 27	and since you asked...herrrrrrrres johnny...I mean me...last minute check of the opening acts mics... Attached Thumbnails

9th November 2002, 07:37 AM	#18
Moze Gear nut Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: New Jersey Posts: 83	Hmmm.... That looks suspiciously like a crazy-ass I used to work with up in the mountains right off Hell's Peak... -Moze

9th November 2002, 11:50 PM	#19
Remoteness Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 4,905	Cool pictures! Questions: Is one console position dedicaded to the music mix and the other to the broadcast mix and comm needs? Are they both in the same room or are they isolated from each other? __________________ Steve Remote AuraSonicLtd.com the home of ASL Mobile & Location Production Remoteness on the Linkedin Network Remoteness on Myspace

6th December 2002, 05:57 AM	#20
Remoteness Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 4,905	Postboy, Did you ever tell us if... The one console position is dedicaded to the music mix and the other to the broadcast mix and comm needs? Also, are they both in the same room or isolated from each other? __________________ Steve Remote AuraSonicLtd.com the home of ASL Mobile & Location Production Remoteness on the Linkedin Network Remoteness on Myspace

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