Using Inserts as a monitor split question

[BigClayton]

Hi all, first I have really enjoyed learning from you guys. I am self taught on audio by trial and error. Which brings me to my question. I am helping a "no budget to buy a splitter snake" church monthly singing. We are wanting to give the singers control of their monitor mix on stage then let FOH control house mix. I have done something like this taking the inserts off one board and shorting the tip/ring (no return needed) then taking that to 1/4" TS into another board in the church studio for recording which works for that location. Now for this location I was thinking of doing simular having all the mics in the board on stage then coming out the inserts (no returns needed again) but this time i need to go into their snake so going to XlR. Now if I understand correctly this is now line level (post pre's) so i would not need to use the transformer barrel adapters, so couldn't I wire that direct to the XLR? Homemade cable with 1/4 TRS shorted out (tip to ring so no return) to the XLR connector to plug into the snake. If this will work, what pins do i use on the XLR.

Otherwise we would take a tax deductable donation of a three way splitter ;-)

Thanks so much for your help ahead of time.

Clayton
www.myspace.com/claytonwatson

[bishopthomas]

Just wire the XLR's normally, using all three pins. Pins 2 and 3 will be shorted because of the shorted TRS at the other end. Your FOH desk better have pads, though, if you're going into the XLR inputs.

[BigClayton]

Originally Posted by bishopthomas

Your FOH desk better have pads, though, if you're going into the XLR inputs.

Is this because it would be to "hot" of a signal coming from the pre-amps off the other board? I appreciate your answer. Like I said, Self taught.

[bishopthomas]

Yes, if you're plugging a line-level signal into a mic input then you may overload the preamp in the console.

[BigClayton]

Originally Posted by bishopthomas

Yes, if you're plugging a line-level signal into a mic input then you may overload the preamp in the console.

Ok, Great!! Thanks A Bunch. That saves about 5,000 dollars even though the 3 way splitter would be handy too :-)

[BigClayton]

Originally Posted by bishopthomas

Yes, if you're plugging a line-level signal into a mic input then you may overload the preamp in the console.

Been Brainstorming again . I don't know how to build circuits but could I put a resistor in every XLR plug to act like a fixed "pad". I was thinking if I use this for mulitple boards, what if one of the boards do not have pads. If anyone can tell me if that will work, maybe a simple wiring diagram using the resistors that would even be helpful too and what size of resistor?

Thanks everyone!!

Clayton

[Remoteness]

Clayton,

Yes, you could put resistors in every XLR plug to act like a fixed pad, but why not build a patch bay or panel that have them inside?

What happens if you don't need the pads on a few channels.

I have built pads into my patch bays just above my stage to mic pre jacks. I can then insert whichever pad I want to which input channel. We have fifty-two -30, -20 and -10 dB pads available in Elroy's analog patch bay. A few patch cords and we are golden.

With this setup you can have a variety of options instead of only one. When you need all the gain you have you will be locked into what you got and that's not cool.

Options baby; Options!

You have a very good idea -- it just needs to be modified for the best possibilities.

We have PC boards that fit 10 pads per board. You can stuff them yourself or have them stuffed by someone else.

I put in a short load version into the patch bay we wired for Larry Hammel at Deepwave Studios in LIC, NY. I think we stuffed 4 or 6 of the ten available circuits. When he expands his bay we can add in the rest.

[bishopthomas]

Steve has a great idea with the patchbay, but if you want a simpler, less elegant solution then you can make some short patch cables with the resistors in the male XLR connector. I have done this and it works well. Do a search to find a diagram and attenuation/resistor chart (or maybe Steve will explain) as I have forgotten the exact details.

[BigClayton]

http://cgi.ebay.com/6-6-XLR-Male-TRS...QQcmdZViewItem


Found These on EBay. Might save some time and money. All I would have to do is add the short on TRS. Still will have to work out the Resistor pads. Any thoughts or concearns with this particluar cables? Thanks guys so much, really enjoying this thread and your help!!

[bishopthomas]

audiopile.net has a TRS to XLR snake for a really good price. You may want to check that out.

[Remoteness]

If I understand you correctly...

You want to use console A's unbalanced inserts as direct outputs to console B If that's still the case consider using the line inputs of console B instead of the mic inputs. You will not need the pads and you will not over drive the mic inputs.

If console B's inputs are 1/4" plugs you will need to build or buy a TRS 1/4" to TS or TRS 1/4" adaptor wired to your standard.

It's pretty simple really.

[BigClayton]

Thanks for reply Steve and Bishop.

It would be easier to do it that way except I am needing to run all 16 channels through stage to FOH snake. This is the reason for the XLR's. Thanks for your help!!! I really enjoy the challenge for my brain.

[Remoteness]

How long is that snake?
I do not recommend running very long unbalance lines!

[BigClayton]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

How long is that snake?
I do not recommend running very long unbalance lines!

It is a 100 foot snake.

[Remoteness]

Originally Posted by BigClayton

It is a 100 foot snake.

IMO, it's a bad idea!

[bishopthomas]

Yeah, you're only asking for problems. Does the church already have the monitor board? If not then buy one that has a built-in split. If so then sell the current one and buy one that has a built-in split.

[BigClayton]

Originally Posted by bishopthomas

Yeah, you're only asking for problems. Does the church already have the monitor board? If not then buy one that has a built-in split. If so then sell the current one and buy one that has a built-in split.

Ok great! I have not actually noticed any boards with splits. I must be looking at to cheap of boards :-)

I will start looling for built in splits.

Thanks guys.

[bishopthomas]

So this would be a new purchase? Tell us your budget and maybe we can recommend some monitor mixers with on-board splitter systems.

[BigClayton]

Originally Posted by bishopthomas

So this would be a new purchase? Tell us your budget and maybe we can recommend some monitor mixers with on-board splitter systems.

I'm currently using a 32 channel mixer and that is ample for my needs now and for some time in the future. I do a lot of volunteer sound for church activites and have building up my own personal system. So any budget is from my own pocket book and the wife keeps it tight most of the time. I think I could live (literally) with $1000 to $1500. I realize this is not a lot of money for sound equipment.

Thanks!!

[BigClayton]

Originally Posted by bishopthomas

So this would be a new purchase? Tell us your budget and maybe we can recommend some monitor mixers with on-board splitter systems.

WOW!! I just did a search for monitor mixers with splits and to show you how much a novice I am, I didn't realize such a mixer was around. I found some on ebay and such with the splits built in. This is really cool!!! Thanks so much for keeping me up-to-date.

Clayton