Whos doing a sound gig for the 'big boss"? Worship audio techs say it loud & proud!

[Jules]

I realize a lot of folks out there, especially in the US, do audio work as a contribution to their place of worship.

From all in-ear monitoring C&W and gospel performance PA's to full blown pro studio rigs to record services.

Spiritual / worship guys (come on lurkers, register & post!)

Let us know what you do for 'the big man upstairs'

All faiths welcome.

[wurly]

In the early 80's I was the mercenary sound guy for a Lutheran Choir that did a "choir and soloists with taped music" kind of touring show.

I called the sound system the "Voice of God".

It was actually a very effective musical work. Every performance had many people in the churches crying their eyes out-they found it very moving.

The worst part? Working with technical bozos.

Don't blow into that. Yeah that's a big speaker. Yup, those amp racks sure are heavy. No I can't do 10 things at once. Golly gee this stuff ain't cheap.

But for the most part they understood the value of my work, were very appreciative of the finished product, and they were generally nice people.

JR wurly

[smoothmoniker]

God bless the church soundman. I've been in soooooo many huge churches (and here in So Cal huge means 10k) where there's one guy who knows what he's doing, surrounded by volunteers who are earnest and kind hearted, but have little or no experience or training.

Its a rough gig!

-sm

[2leod]

Yep, soundguys in most of the churches I've been to had one thing in common... the patience of Job. I have found myself drawn to smaller churches where there is more of a sense of community, but you can imagine in small settings, where budgets for sound gear are meager at best, what a challenge making things sound good it is. Not only that, the need is often for more of an audio/visual tech who is working the PowerPoint during the sermon and throwing up the song words on the screen when the worship leader, lead by the Spirit, breaks into something completely unplanned. I'm the worship leader where we are now, and I keep the sound board up front... I'm dancing around more than I ever have. Not so bad when someone else is leading, but far from ideal. I've got several of the kids from the church hanging around the studio now and a couple show some promise, so in the near future we are going to raise the bar, get them involved and expect exiting things to happen. Can I get an amen from the back row?

[Bob Olhsson]

And I've been in soooooo many churches where it would have sounded a million times better without any sound system at all!

[atticus]

My father is the pastor of the church where I go, and I do run the sound system for them about twice a month. It's hard because budgets are low and all the local stores sell Mackie and Behringer, so that's what ends up in most of the systems. We're getting there, though.

[2leod]

Originally posted by Bob Olhsson
And I've been in soooooo many churches where it would have sounded a million times better without any sound system at all!

WH-ha-aat?? No gear? Getting pretty close to sacrilege there, Bob...

[cajonezzz]

A few of my steady gigs (as a player) involve big , showtime type churches.

A total state of the art prduction including 7 camera shoot, Innovason console with 24 in ear mixes, and an in house full on broadcast studio....Great, pro audio staff (all paid) and very professional treatment on all levels.

My steady is a smaller church (1500) with Mackie and similar stuff and a voulenteer staff . ( I help out in a pinch)
The acoustics of some of the older traditional designed churches seems to be the big hurdle.
This particular church( has come into the 21st century very quickly over the last 2 years. They've jumped on the vid production and music (contemporary) so quick it's required a new service to be added that caters to the "alternative" crowd. the band rocks the house pretty hard....(for church)
I recorded a full length worship CD for them using a combo of hired guns and church "talent" this year. That was an interesting experience....

for myself and a lot of the top drawer players here (and for many live sound folks I know) having a steady church "gig" can pay the rent and then some.

all around a blessing ....

[viaspiaggia]

i put in many years playing and running sounds at various churches. i am out of it these days as i got sick of the copy-cat nature of much of the music - basically the places i was involved with were playing styles that were on the AC hit list about two years prior. though one church i was at did do some very convincing punk versions of a few songs...

i did also grow weary of the lack of experience with the volunteer help that others here have mentioned. we had to set up / tear down every sunday, and i went through too many hyper-tangled cords and broken-off knobs to keep at it. big props to those who can keep up with it and keep their sanity!

i found the dated / inexperienced vibe ran into other "A/V" aspects i was involved with. i helped produce some videos, ran power point, etc for one period of time, and the inability / unwillingness of that particular church to keep up with technology and style innovations and at least some semblance of state-of-the-art grew too frustrating.

of course reading over my post it seems that perhaps i'm just too much of a anal-retentive jerk to have kept going with it. in the end if people enjoy the worship and can hear the sermon, you've done your job, right?

-adam-

[jobi7]

Originally posted by Bob Olhsson
And I've been in soooooo many churches where it would have sounded a million times better without any sound system at all!

Sounds like ours! I've been trying to convince our church in spending its few dollars improving acoustics instead of upgrading the sound system.

We recently had about a $1200 budget that someone was about to use on some recommendation at our local GC. We have a Wackie 1202 and some cheap radio shack mike that was placed about 3 feet away from the speaker. We have a few mumblers so whenever anyone turned up the mic it would feed back. While he procrastinated I stepped in and bought a $300 Earthworks gooseneck mic. It apparently never occurred to anyone that using a nice mike that's closer to the source might improve audibility. Needless to say, no one has complained since. The mic is pretty nice for vocalists too.

I also went to a Christmas show that one church put on where they clearly spent a lot of money on gear rental. Every performer had their own wireless mic (at least 20). The thing was an absolute disaster. Feeback, dropouts, people couldn't hear themselves. It was an awesome thing to watch. Didn't know whether to laugh or cry.

[caughtup]

Hi y'all. That's my main gig, i am the associate pastor that oversees the tech team as well as a worship leader once a month. Sometimes me and the boys get to do a youth conference where we can break out the Fender 4x10 Superreverbs and not worry about blowing Doris' wig off in the fourth row!
I hear Mr.O about the "some churches would sound better without any..." thing. They were all meant for spoken word and choral singing, not contemp. worship styles w/full blown drumkits et al!
I'm hopin' for a bass trap to get approved for our sanctuary, it's got the famous 120Hz drywall bump that makes for a standing wave from the bass player that is impossible to control... so I tell him to turn up.. hee hee
I also agree that it's a tough gig. We have people of all maturity levels in thier faith and sometimes tempers flare cuz the soundguy forgets that his boss would extend much more grace and patience to the soprano with awful mic technique.(or the bass player who insists that his compression pedal is really the best way to turn up his volume sob)
How do you all like my new avatar? It's a QTC1 jammed in my empty head! and the caption says"I've got Earthworks on my mind!" nyuk nyuk nyuk..
Jeff

[musical5]

I myself am the PT worship director of a great 200 person church. I use a full band, drums, bass, keys, electric guitar, acoustic guitar, and piano. I have several volunteer sound guys who are very patient with me. Im sure its not extremely fun for them as I engineer, so Im very anal


Justin

[jbchef]

I used to do sound for my church in LA every week. It was a decent setup. Since I'm back here in Indonesia, I haven't been doing much. But I'd love to volunteer again here.

I think church sound system should be very simple and very easy for the volunteers to operate with a very basic knowledge (if you hear it, it's good!) Kudos to system installers who make sure that the system they installed is foolproof, and idiot friendly.

My church used to have a decent system. An EAW house, in ear monitors (crappy Shure low end), Soundcraft Ghost, MPX1, Presonus ACP88.

When I came in, that's the stuff they have. Budget was tight and I got to spend only on 9v batteries for the in ear monitors.

Volunteering as a service to the 'Big Boss' is rewarding. I didn't expect any reward, as long as the congregations don't notice anything wrong with the sound, job is done! (They do realize when I wasn't around, that the mix is different).

I've seen churches with excellent sound system, and they were willing to go an extra mile to make sure they have the best system and the best engineers.
I have a problem here in Indonesia however with the attitude of the religious organizations asking for discounts not due to constraints of budgets, but they feel they deserve a discount as spiritual organization.
I don't get this, since if its for God, you SHOULD want to give the best, and not lobbying for discount left and right. (I know they have the budgets to do it)

Have anyone asked you discount 'in the name' of God?



Moko

[smoothmoniker]

I'm wondering...

It seems like "production value", for lack of a better term, is becoming a more important facet of sunday worship for evangelical christian churches. Better video, lights, sound, etc.

Does anyone come from a different religious tradition, and can shed some light on how much value is placed on these things during your worship times?

Thanks.

[viaspiaggia]

Originally posted by smoothmoniker
Does anyone come from a different religious tradition, and can shed some light on how much value is placed on these things during your worship times?

background:
i grew up lutheran, attending the biggest old-school-est lutheran church in my home town. you know, the one that does the xmas eve service on TV, etc etc. when i was in high school there, i was on the committee ( ) for a contemporary worship service for about 2 years. nothing happened. then i went away to college, etc, stayed in chicago, etc. about 6 years after we originally started the committee, they started a service.

what i can tell you is that the PRIMARY concern was making the contemporary service palatable to the old-line lutherans. so they have bass sometimes and guitar sometimes but its mostly electric piano and 3-6 singers. they are sure to have a "modern" version of the liturgy, and also try hard to always have a hymn or two and always have something that screams "contemporary" like "shine jesus shine."

so production value per-se was not a high concern - if you can hear the singers (that's why there are so many) and if its not TOO loud, you've succeeded. oh and no lights or video or anything else fancy.

incidentally the contemporary service has since attracted lots of the older more conservative members of the church, much to the organizers surprise. and though its pretty weak for my tastes, i much prefer going to that service with my folks when i visit that the big one in the sanctuary!



-adam-

[Stick]

Yeah, I'm the piano guy/background singer/arranger/sometimes leader at my 600 person church. To me the remarkable thing about our church is how little musical talent there is in our church. I'm the only pro on the team, and right now the brightest hope is a kid who's a senior in high school. (He was messing around playing the hymn "And Can It Be" as a punk tune the other night... pretty cool.) And, that holds true for the tech side too. Both are volunteers, and neither really know what they're doing. I do a lot of running back to the board to re-eq (and re-eq the next week... and the next week...). Our rig isn't amazing, but it's not bad either (A&H board, 58s all around, some compressors, 2 wireless, etc.), we could just really use someone that knows what's up.

As far as my involvement, I do it as a sort of tithe of the abilities and professional opportunities the Lord has given me. And, unless the music at a church is really good, I have a hard time worshiping myself if I'm distracted by bad music (or sound for that matter), so I like to do what I can.

Along those lines, I've also done (produced/engineered/mixed) a number of church worship band records. Generally speaking, good people, pretty good songs, and sometimes good players/singers. Not usually very good budgets... but that's another story...

So, yeah, if any of you tech guys (or musicians!) are looking for a smallish church to be involved in... PM me!

[karatemanjohnny]

I think I am going to get into doing some sound stuff for my church some day - I think it could get people more involved. I did it on and off a few years ago... It seems like there are a lot of people that go who aren't really interested in sharing their abilities, myself included.

One thing that holds me back some is the time commitment and also the quality of musicianship present. But, once some time frees up, I'll try and lend a hand.

[Dot]

800-member Methodist church on the beach in a lazy resort town in South Carolina. I started out as the bass player. Then the keyboard player left, so I took over doing keys - and the drummer's son started playing bass. Then a few months ago I was appointed the leader of contemporary music. Had been a volunteer for 2.5 years and then the church asked to put me on staff and pay me a monthly stipend for about 3-4 hours of work per week. I'm mostly playing acoustic guitar now. Will sometimes do programming on a Korg Trinity. I've also got access to a grand piano in the sanctuary. Might even jump on the pipe organ at some point.

I designed, installed and tweaked the sound system in the fellowship hall where we've had contemporary services for the last two years. We've recently moved the 11 o'clock service into the main sanctuary for a blended service. The quality of the musicians, singers and gear is surprisingly high. I've turned the minister into a Gear Slut. He now uses a DPA 4060 mic on his lapel through a Millennia HV-3 mic pre. Hey, nothin' but the best for the good Word. : )

I've just been put in charge of the sound system in the sanctuary, and work with about 8 volunteer "sound guys" who rotate one service each month. I set and tune the system and its idiot-proof. There's not much for the volunteers to do but power up the system and mute the pulpit mic anytime someone wearing a lav mic is at the pulpit.

This week will be taking some of the sound system from the fellowship hall and installing it in the sanctuary for a much needed upgrade.

Soon installing a permanent 2-track recording system in the sanctuary with a Masterlink, a sweet 2-channel pre and some omnis positioned to taste.

I dig the work I'm able to do. No one else there really has a clue about sound or sound systems, so I'm glad I can be of service.

[Screws]

I'm the Worship Pastor at my church. Finding someone to run the sound for free (since I'm a little busy leading the band and singers and my wife and I are singing lead vocals) is hard enough. Finding a real tech has been near impossible.

The last guy was a former radio jockey, who said it was the most hateful job he'd ever done, and he's probably one of the most patient guys I know.

Truth is, most church buildings (at least the older ones) were never designed to sound nice with amplified music. My church was built by Presbyterians in the 1960's with a live, unamplified choir and a huge organ as the only music expected. As a result, the entire room has a low mid bump between 150 and 400 that makes it hard to tune.

The acoustician I brought in said to fill the stage with sand (it would take 3 dump trucks and an army of construction workers) and pad all the walls with acoustic panels (about $10,000 we don't have).

So we make do. Doesn't sound great, doesn't make me quite want to quit.

[Mordecai]

I think a lot of us started out as soundmen at our churches. That's where I got my start and did it for about 8 years. We even put together a road rig and did worship sets out doors with generators.

Now, 18 years later I am working with a ministry that does worship 24 hours a day, litterally! Our system has been up and running 24/7 for over 4 years now. Teams lead worship in 2 hour sessions, then the next team comes in without a break in the music. The other musicians and background vocalists keep the song going while the worship leaders switch out. Then the other musicians switch out one at a time.

I try to only run sound for the one team that I am a part of. This makes the soundman a part of the team, and not just a "soundman". It sucks sometimes when you come in after an experienced FOH guy leaves you a crummy mix. You have to fix everything without any type of sound check.

[smoothmoniker]

bump

incidentally, any of you who are currently leading worship, I started a forum on my site similar to GS format. It's new as of wednesday, so there's not much there, but some good friends and great people are registered.

check it out if you're interested
http://addisonrd.com/worship

-sm

[jho]

I play piano, synths and samplers at our small church every week. I love it. It's a blast playing for the King.

I'm using Ableton Live and my Zendrum midi controller alot too...congas, timpanis, horn stabs, song intros etc.

[benbradley]

I saw the spam on RAP about this thread, I'm a little late responding...
I do sound at a Unitarian Universalist congregation (about 120 members). For years I did occasional sound as a 'third backup' to the two guys who alternated Sundays. A year ago one of them left and I became the "every other Sunday" sound guy, then a month ago the other one left, now I'm EVERY Sunday. At least I have a couple prospects to share duties, I've shown one person what to do, but he hasn't done it yet. This is good in a lot of ways, one is that last year I performed (singing and playing guitar - UU's are real forgiving) a few times as part of the service, and this will free me up to do that again.

The equipment rack consists of (can anyone beat this for low budget?):
Rackrider power switch/light
Alesis Studio 12R mixer
Tascam dual cassette deck (not currently used except when someone wants to play a tape during service)
CD-R recorder (records service, replaces cassette)
Alesis Nanocompressor (between mix out and CDR input)
forget-the-model home stereo receiver for main power amp.
Another power amp somewhere underneath that powers speakers in kitchen and nursery.
There are four loudspeakers around the sanctuary, they are... home stereo speakers.
There's a 12-channel snake to the front of the sanctuary where a couple of mics are permanently hooked up, and others are pluged in as/if needed.
All mics are cheap knock-offs of SM-57's and SM-58's. With all this, I'm doing really well just to make things audible!

[Fibes]

Hmmmm? I got a call last week about doing sound at a very large high energy Christian hall. Since i'm Mithraic i doubt i'll be able to fit in, but the money sounds pretty good. Is it a huge issue that i'm not Christian?

[Stick]

What's Mithraic? That's a new one for me...

That's an issue that comes up a lot, I think. Especially when hiring talent (musical or techincal) outside of the congregation. It's been a slow process to help our elder board see the benefits involved in bringing outside talent in (Christian or not...). I'd have trouble with it if you were being brought in to lead worship from the stage with your guitar... that wouldn't fly. 'Course, you'd never feel comfortable doing that anyway...

From my perspective, it's an opportunity to have you come and help us, and in the process you'll have a chance to "see what we're all about". How that might affect you is between you and God.

And the money sounds good? What church is that? I wish my church could make the money sound good for prospective good techs... sigh.

[Fibes]

Mithraic - Mithra... I'm sure you can find some stuff on the web about it (as all net stuff, some is completely false). I don't discuss these things... I'm sure you understand.

I live in a fairly small market but this congregation is huge and i suppose they need experienced talent to run the shebang over there. I would be the part time guy who fills in on Sunday but handles the weeknight stuff... So it won't be much of a conflict.

The end result of the new construction will prolly land the church's capacity between 3000-5000. That's nothing for someone who used to do festivals before getting into the studio full time, i guess that's why they called. I'm still unsure if this is a good fit or not but it will be challenging and not a bunch of screaming kids with out of tune guitars.

I would in no way consider it appropriate to be onstage performing. So true.

[alphajerk]

damn fibes... that newly legalized big beer is going to yer head.

[2leod]

Yeah, I was about to say if the money sounds good, be careful! They may be imposters...
I'd say go for it. Couple of quick tips tho' - if you're unsure of an appropriate response at any time, a loud shout of "GLORY!" will get you through many situations. Practice this move - with your fists tucked up close to your armpits, execute a fairly slow hop on one foot (not too high) while going "WHHOOooo..." People will recognize that from the TV guys. Also, if you feel like raising your hands, leaving one hand on the board could lead to confusion - the band might think you're trying to give them a cue. Two options... both hands in the air (not advisable) or just raise the one half way, out to the side (better). Just a little trick I learned, you'll thank me later.



We need a tongue firmly in cheek emoticon, Jules...

[Stick]

Understood... I'll check it out.

Yeah... although, you might get some of those same kids at church! HA! And the guys at my church usually have out of tune guitars!

[chap]

I just mastered a live Clarence/Bruce at Asbury Park CD. I thought Bruce was the Boss?
peace
chap