Young, Want to make a career, where to start?

thorer01 · 26th February 2007, 07:59 AM

Question for everyone with an opinion;

So, I am young, 22, I graduate in May with a B.A. in Management and a minor in music.

I have been doing live sound and recording since I was 13, and feel very comfortable in either role.

Has spent last two summers on tour as an FOH engineer of 48ch 100 scene musical theatre/jazz band tour.

Recorded and mixed CD's, edited TV Show on Pro Tools HD

Recorded a few dozen recitals, audition CD's and half dozen rock, acoustic things

My question to you is what is the next step?

I have a growing reputation where I live as a good engineer, both recording and live. I own very little gear of any kind on my own. I know I would like to world with audio for a career. As an ultimate goal I would love to own my business and I feel I have the education to do so. But the problems I am running into are obviously finding anyone to help finance some minimal gear purchases in difficult. And frankly I don’t want to work in a cubicle to save money. The few live sound companies and studios around me are run by older gentlemen on their way towards retirement, or they are going out of business because frankly do not have the best people skills and people are hiring from outside the area.

Should I continue to try to find financing to start my own company?
Should I look into working for a current company?
Should look into a way to purchase a company?
Do I give up and live a sad life?
Do any of you want to give me a job?

I am sort of at a crossroads and looking for ideas and inspiration. So shoot me down, build me up, anything would be wonderful, thanks for reading my long winded post.

JonCraig · 26th February 2007, 08:27 AM

i think you'd be best served by deciding just what it is you do best. live work, studio work, whatever... think long and hard about what you're the most skilled at. what comes the most naturally. compare that with what seems to be the most fun. what about 20 years from now? does a wife, kids, bad back, whatever change things? are those changes something that influence your decision now?

once you know that, it will be easier to know what the next step is.

--jon

thorer01 · 26th February 2007, 09:35 AM

As crazy as this sounds in a perfect world, I can do a live show, multi-track record, bring it back to a studio to edit. That would be perfect. 20 years from I won't have any shoulders left because 8 years of high school and college swimming have torn them up. Things that are large factors in my decision are that I dont want to move, and I want to make myself and people happy with the work that I do, those are my baselines so far.

JonCraig · 26th February 2007, 04:45 PM

so you'd want to find someone who records large remote events, and ask to take him out to lunch. ask him how he got where he is, what he'd do different, what advice he can give you, etc. etc. etc.

basically ask the questions you asked in your o.p. to an individual whose job you would like to have.

--jon

tdoranpalmer · 26th February 2007, 05:17 PM

As with just about any business venture, its not about what you know its who you know.

As with the other post, you must network with the guys who already do this. If you don't have a list of clients ready to use your services, you are waisting your money.

"The music business is cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where theives and pimps run free, there is also a negative side".

Start working somewhere to build capital. Once you have sufficient funds and the proper contacts you could look into starting your own business.

I personally would not borrow money for a startup company of this nature. Just to risky.

JonCraig · 26th February 2007, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdoranpalmer

I personally would not borrow money for a startup company of this nature. Just to risky.

agreed 100%

--jon

bishopthomas · 26th February 2007, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thorer01

My question to you is what is the next step?

To know the next step you have to know the destination. Where do you WANT to go?

Quote:

Originally Posted by thorer01

I have a growing reputation where I live as a good engineer, both recording and live. I own very little gear of any kind on my own. I know I would like to world with audio for a career. As an ultimate goal I would love to own my business and I feel I have the education to do so. But the problems I am running into are obviously finding anyone to help finance some minimal gear purchases in difficult. And frankly I don’t want to work in a cubicle to save money. The few live sound companies and studios around me are run by older gentlemen on their way towards retirement, or they are going out of business because frankly do not have the best people skills and people are hiring from outside the area.

The fact that you are building a reputation will go a long way. I recently moved from a small town where I was the ONLY person doing live sound and recording to the NYC/Philly area. So I'm having to start over on a much larger scale than before. If you're happy where you are then use that to your advantage. As far as financing, how much gear do you really NEED in order to start out? Rent what you have to have and put 110% back into the business.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thorer01

Should I continue to try to find financing to start my own company?
Should I look into working for a current company?
Should look into a way to purchase a company?
Do I give up and live a sad life?
Do any of you want to give me a job?

1. If you want to get a loan from a bank then you'll need a business plan. It sounds like you need one anyway, whether or not you decide on a loan.
2. Do you want to do what you enjoy doing or do you want to be a business manager?
3. If everyone around you has a poor reputation then you don't want to buy them out.
4. You could give up and live a sad life with money, or you could be like me (and many other sound pros) and live a happy life without it.
5. Where do you live?

thorer01 · 26th February 2007, 09:16 PM

Quote:

To know the next step you have to know the destination. Where do you WANT to go?

I want get to a point where I can do audio for a full-time job. I would to be married with children someday and I would like to support them.

Quote:

The fact that you are building a reputation will go a long way. I recently moved from a small town where I was the ONLY person doing live sound and recording to the NYC/Philly area. So I'm having to start over on a much larger scale than before. If you're happy where you are then use that to your advantage. As far as financing, how much gear do you really NEED in order to start out? Rent what you have to have and put 110% back into the business.

Well the amount of gear varies, I could get by with a mackie vlz and an hd24. But I would prefer to use a higher leverl of gear in true slutty fashion. I plan on working full time for the next few years at least so I do not need this to be my livliehood yet.

Quote:

1. If you want to get a loan from a bank then you'll need a business plan. It sounds like you need one anyway, whether or not you decide on a loan.
2. Do you want to do what you enjoy doing or do you want to be a business manager?
3. If everyone around you has a poor reputation then you don't want to buy them out.
4. You could give up and live a sad life with money, or you could be like me (and many other sound pros) and live a happy life without it.
5. Where do you live?

1. I actually do have a business plan written, I have it based on the reccomendations of the sba and have had it revised and once overed by my college professors.

5. Since I have commited a level of slander, and if it was found out what I said about whom, might be bad. So for the moment all I will say is that is a smaller midwestern state.

Thanks for the info guys and keep it coming.

treymonfauntre · 26th February 2007, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thorer01

or they are going out of business because frankly do not have the best people skills and people are hiring from outside the area.

i'm finding this more and more true around me, and not just for recording studios.

JazzYoda · 27th February 2007, 12:13 AM

My suggestion is this:

Do not close any avenues. I have about 6 different things that I do professionally now, and added together they give me one living. I would advise against going into debt on gear to build a studio. You are better off taking little steps and seeing what the world brings you. Follow the signs.

JazzYoda

Henchman · 27th February 2007, 03:13 AM

I don't want to burst your bubble, but if you want to make this a job, then you'll have to go where the work is.
I think if you stay in Iowa you'll have a much harder time of achieving your goal. Unless you want to be making $15,- an hour recording crappy bands or $10,- hour for doing live sound in some crappy bar, 20 years from now.
You can make more than that working at Starbucks, without having to spend money on gear. No wonder you're having a problem getting a loan.

I've been doing audio now for almost 20 years, and in that time I've moved form The Netherlands, to San Francisco and Vancouver, canada. And now that I feel I've gone as far as I can go in vancouver, I am looking at moving to London to move forward in my career.
And I'll be 45 next year.
You're 22, and if staying in your hometown is more of a concern, then in all honesty, maybe a desk job IS the job for you.

bishopthomas · 27th February 2007, 04:38 AM

Have you done his market research? Hopefully "thorer" has, and he's the only one who knows if his area will support his endeavors. Maybe the real reason other companies are going out of business is because the business is not there, but neither I nor you know that for a fact.

Henchman · 27th February 2007, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bishopthomas

Have you done his market research? Hopefully "thorer" has, and he's the only one who knows if his area will support his endeavors. Maybe the real reason other companies are going out of business is because the business is not there, but neither I nor you know that for a fact.

No, but my guess is, it's like everyhwere else. Keeping an existing music Audio business going is hard enough. Starting a new one in a market where other established ones are closing is even harder.
I've checked his rates, and what thorer is charging is probably why he's getting the work a well. $10 to $15,- an hour.

Now, try and triple that rate to make a half decent living wage, and see where the market is.

RobMacki · 27th February 2007, 05:47 AM

Keep doing what your doing.
Put together a reel.
Go to bigger shows and festivals and try to make contacts (friends).
Go to AES shows and try to make contacts (friends).
Be willing to travel.
Try to work (intern) for guys who will give you more experience or credits.
Continue to build your reputation locally and capitalize on that for now.
Visit other areas to see where you might want to live, work and what the pulse is of the scene.
Think realistically.
Be willing to sacrifice.
22 was 25 years ago for me but it seems like yesterday.(OT)
Read as much as you can and try to find a niche for yourself.
If you're not willing to move, don't expect what you see and read about in the big cities.
But you could eventually build up and own a boutique studio that is high-end multi-faceted and be a knowledgeable professional who is sought out in your area.

Don't sell yourself short to get the gig unless you benefit in another way from it.

And what Henchman said.

thorer01 · 27th February 2007, 06:36 AM

Well what I charge right now is what I use for the college stuff that I do right now. Pretty much all I have is an Onyx 1220 and a few $200 condensers. Charging anything more than that considering I am using borrowed space

I have done market research. Yes there is the bar band business, but from the market research I have done the last 2-3 years and the niche that I would love to fill are schools and churches and other non-profits. They perform multiple concerts a year, they have concert series and the like. I have contacted a number of church music directors, high school music directors and have gauged interest from them about how much they would use a recording and or live sound service. It looks like there is a viable market albeit a small one.

From there I would love to branch out to more "professional" endeavors. I am fully aware that audio as a business is a risky adventure at best. When I graduated high school I investigated Full Sail and similar schools, I looked at FSU and MTSU. At the time I felt coming to a liberal arts school and getting a degree in music and something else would be able to give me the most options. I know that staying put limits my options a great deal, but there are reasons far more important to me than simply making money that are going to keep me here.

JonCraig · 27th February 2007, 06:56 AM

you sound sensible, and you sound like you have a good grasp of what you want to do. excellent!

now, what is it that you think is keeping you from doing what you want to do? (ps... it's NOT the gear.)

--jon

Henchman · 27th February 2007, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thorer01

I know that staying put limits my options a great deal, but there are reasons far more important to me than simply making money that are going to keep me here.

Then I honestly suggest you look at it as a part-time hobby/proffession and fine something you can do to make real money tat you'll need to pay rent, buy food and othe rthigns you'll need to live, untill you can make it a fulltime job.

Steve Smith · 27th February 2007, 08:38 AM

In order to survive in a small market, and even possibly flourish, you MUST be able to diversify. Record, Do live sound.. Sell Gear, Do installs, GET CORPRATE EVENT ACCOUNTS. In no uncertian terms, make a path to dominate that market. The "nitch" you speak of with churches and non-profits is definately out there, but it is also a market that is loaded with DIYers. Learn to adapt to whatever need they have.

The good news is that you are sellign the same thing every one of us is - Yourself.
Keep building that rep, and find a way to become THAT GUY, the one that your clients never want to work without.

Good Luck!

MosBass · 27th February 2007, 11:06 AM

It is a very difficult situation you are in. Taking the risk to be involved in such a industry is itself the biggest most silly decision you will ever make. Today stability comes from diversity. I know of people that work throughout the week in London, and then fly off to the US and work the weekend, whilst sleeping on the plane. They are doing BIG projects yet they still have to pay the bills somehow, maybe they have big bills.

I am 26 and have the same problem you do, how do I get started? Doing it as a hobby/part-time profession, and proving that with consumer gear you can create better than professional results is the way forward I believe. It may take a while and you may work with a load of idiots in the mean time, unless you seek the good guys out and offer your service to really build your name. And lets face it, if you were to work in a cube, you be working with dickheads anyway.

I have a slight problem myself, due to illness I am not involved in the rat race at all, I am however a musician in a very promisisng band, so I am trying to hold on to the dream as well as forge a path for myself. Pressure is the biggest problem I am having. Pressure from myself to sort myself out. I have been married for 7 years now so I guess I should be thinking about a mortage and kids, and a pipe and slippers, now that does'nt fit into me buying 16 of the best pre-amp on the market, namely the portico 5012.

Jazz Yoda said it best for me:

"You are better off taking little steps and seeing what the world brings you. Follow the signs."

Wise words these are

You, like me have done loads of work already, you have a head start on people really just starting out, enjoy that.

Now anyone have a million pounds they are willing to give me?

thorer01 · 27th February 2007, 02:31 PM

I know that I need to find another job to pay the bills for bills, I am fully prepared for that. Your guys' advice is exactly what I was expecting it to be. I have never been unsuccessful at anything I have ever done. And when I find somthing that I enjoy I read evry singlr word I can find about it, in true nerdy fashion.

Quote:

Keep building that rep, and find a way to become THAT GUY, the one that your clients never want to work without.

That is my goal, and while I might be 55 by the times I will succeed, I will get there.

JonCraig · 27th February 2007, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thorer01

I have never been unsuccessful at anything I have ever done....That is my goal, and while I might be 55 by the times I will succeed, I will get there.

excellent!

"do or do not... there is no try"

--jon

Henchman · 27th February 2007, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MosBass

And lets face it, if you were to work in a cube, you be working with dickheads anyway.

Hmm, that's not really true.
Before I staretd as an assistant at the Plant, worked at Sega on the phones. Literally in a cube. I still ahd a fun time working there.
Was it a career?
No. But it paid the bills for awhile.
I worked aot of regualr jobs. some fo them sucked, some didn't.

RobMacki · 27th February 2007, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MosBass

And lets face it, if you were to work in a cube, you be working with dickheads anyway.

That sounds like the voice of hubris and not experience to me IMVHO.

If your goal is to have a family, and be "the go to guy" and make a living at it, then don't expect it to happen upon graduation.
It may take 5-10 years and you may have to suck it up like I did when I worked at MF as tech support. You do what you need to to reach your goals. Even now, at 47 I will still make sacrifices to build or maintain my business. But I have established myself in a smaller market. Even if I was to move into a larger market, I would have to rebuild.

My wife and I have a plan together. She is staying home with the girls and working on her master's degree while I work. When the girls are in school and she has completed her program she'll go back into the education world. Then we might move to a larger market. I realize I will most likely have to re-establish myself. I might even try to get on with someone else. You can make more money on your own but it fluctuates. It's not an easy way to make a living.

You're either eating chicken or feathers. edited

Bottom line is you need to have a parachute in your business plan.

MosBass · 28th February 2007, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobMacki

That sounds like the voice of hubris and not experience to me IMVHO.

Add the word Could to that sentence and use it in context within the paragraph and you get my point. My apologies for not adding that word.

but actually...

Actually it is from a guy who worked as a full-time musician and had to do a full time job at the same time for 5 years, a nearly died as a result. Starting work at 8am then going to work with th band after til whenever sometime actually only sleeping for 1 or two hours, no wonder so many musicians like drink and drugs. Just goes to show you have your songs on MTV, be on the radio tour your country and still no make any money. As with everything in music, it is sometimes your contract and not your music that can make you money. That is a statement of experience not conjecture.

Anyway, I apologise if I offended anyone but I do what I'm good at, and I appear to be good at that.

I take offense because of the people I had to carry whilst working in a cube, my experience my opinion. Please dont question peoples opinions, like larry flint said, they are like assholes everybody's got to have one and the right to use em.

Anyway I aint here for this, I'm here to help and learn.

Right - time for my medication, really!

RobMacki · 28th February 2007, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MosBass

Anyway I aint here for this, I'm here to help and learn.

Right - time for my medication, really!

nobasil · 6th June 2007, 03:46 PM

Hi Thorer,
I'm in a similar position, looking for jobs, trying to decide what to do with my life. My feeling is that ideally you should be able to do whatever you want. Plow a new trail and make it work. Brilliant people come up with creative solutions to adapt to their environment and make their dreams come true. That being said, over the years I have become a little more realistic.

We live in a world of business. I moved to Portugal thinking that I could just throw around the words New York City a lot and people would beg me to work at their studios. I visited every studio I could find in the Lisbon area. I revisited the ones I liked and did call backs. In the end, I felt like the soil just wasn't fertile enough to support more trees. Even the bigger studios have just one house sound engineer who does all of the work. That's what they can afford. Studios needs more clients, not more employees. After about 6 months I found work in live sound and have kept it up.

Staff jobs I have gotten just by walking in at the right time. This usually happens after contacting 20 other places. Sound engineering positions are almost never published. People would rather hire a friend or a referral from a colleague. Recording gigs I have gotten by contacting artists and saying, "I want to record you." In some places like NYC, these jobs lead to referrals and more jobs. In Lisbon, it hasn't. I haven't found a niche market where my skills are in high demand and I haven't networked and advertised enough. In NYC there is more freelance work, job turnover, and general movement in the field. My point is that in some cities it's tougher to break into the biz. I think this may change as more people from our generation who took the academic approach are entering the market with a technical skill base, but the only job opportunity I had where someone actually read my CV was at a famous mastering house for a non-paid internship with no guarantee of studio exposure. That being said, I still send them out all the time.

I agree with people who have already mentioned not going into business unless you have demand. I have also heard the suggestion of buying into someone else's business. If someone is already running a successful business idea, this seems to make sense. Anyone ever try it?

You may have heard some of this stuff before, but I had to learn it 1st hand and it was very discouraging at the beginning. Now that I know what it's like, I just don't get emotional about it and keep working. As you're concentrating on a particular goal,

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26th February 2007, 07:59 AM	#1
thorer01 Gear interested Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 9	Young, Want to make a career, where to start? Question for everyone with an opinion; So, I am young, 22, I graduate in May with a B.A. in Management and a minor in music. I have been doing live sound and recording since I was 13, and feel very comfortable in either role. Has spent last two summers on tour as an FOH engineer of 48ch 100 scene musical theatre/jazz band tour. Recorded and mixed CD's, edited TV Show on Pro Tools HD Recorded a few dozen recitals, audition CD's and half dozen rock, acoustic things My question to you is what is the next step? I have a growing reputation where I live as a good engineer, both recording and live. I own very little gear of any kind on my own. I know I would like to world with audio for a career. As an ultimate goal I would love to own my business and I feel I have the education to do so. But the problems I am running into are obviously finding anyone to help finance some minimal gear purchases in difficult. And frankly I don’t want to work in a cubicle to save money. The few live sound companies and studios around me are run by older gentlemen on their way towards retirement, or they are going out of business because frankly do not have the best people skills and people are hiring from outside the area. Should I continue to try to find financing to start my own company? Should I look into working for a current company? Should look into a way to purchase a company? Do I give up and live a sad life? Do any of you want to give me a job? I am sort of at a crossroads and looking for ideas and inspiration. So shoot me down, build me up, anything would be wonderful, thanks for reading my long winded post.

26th February 2007, 08:27 AM	#2
JonCraig Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 1,801	i think you'd be best served by deciding just what it is you do best. live work, studio work, whatever... think long and hard about what you're the most skilled at. what comes the most naturally. compare that with what seems to be the most fun. what about 20 years from now? does a wife, kids, bad back, whatever change things? are those changes something that influence your decision now? once you know that, it will be easier to know what the next step is. --jon __________________ "my job is to make music sound great and to not whine too much." --george massenburg Learn PT Techniques from Multi-Platinum Engineers. Click Me. Pro Tools "Tip of the Day" Widget. Click Me.

26th February 2007, 04:45 PM	#4
JonCraig Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 1,801	so you'd want to find someone who records large remote events, and ask to take him out to lunch. ask him how he got where he is, what he'd do different, what advice he can give you, etc. etc. etc. basically ask the questions you asked in your o.p. to an individual whose job you would like to have. --jon __________________ "my job is to make music sound great and to not whine too much." --george massenburg Learn PT Techniques from Multi-Platinum Engineers. Click Me. Pro Tools "Tip of the Day" Widget. Click Me.

26th February 2007, 05:17 PM	#5
tdoranpalmer Gear nut Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: US Posts: 78	As with just about any business venture, its not about what you know its who you know. As with the other post, you must network with the guys who already do this. If you don't have a list of clients ready to use your services, you are waisting your money. "The music business is cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where theives and pimps run free, there is also a negative side". Start working somewhere to build capital. Once you have sufficient funds and the proper contacts you could look into starting your own business. I personally would not borrow money for a startup company of this nature. Just to risky. __________________ If at first you DO Succeed, try not to look astonished! Doran Palmer Audient-RME-SSL-TubeTech - Sales

26th February 2007, 09:35 AM	#3
thorer01 Gear interested Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 9	As crazy as this sounds in a perfect world, I can do a live show, multi-track record, bring it back to a studio to edit. That would be perfect. 20 years from I won't have any shoulders left because 8 years of high school and college swimming have torn them up. Things that are large factors in my decision are that I dont want to move, and I want to make myself and people happy with the work that I do, those are my baselines so far.

27th February 2007, 12:13 AM	#10
JazzYoda Gear nut Join Date: May 2006 Location: New York Posts: 110	My suggestion is this: Do not close any avenues. I have about 6 different things that I do professionally now, and added together they give me one living. I would advise against going into debt on gear to build a studio. You are better off taking little steps and seeing what the world brings you. Follow the signs. JazzYoda

27th February 2007, 03:13 AM	#11
Henchman Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: LA, USA Posts: 4,031	I don't want to burst your bubble, but if you want to make this a job, then you'll have to go where the work is. I think if you stay in Iowa you'll have a much harder time of achieving your goal. Unless you want to be making $15,- an hour recording crappy bands or $10,- hour for doing live sound in some crappy bar, 20 years from now. You can make more than that working at Starbucks, without having to spend money on gear. No wonder you're having a problem getting a loan. I've been doing audio now for almost 20 years, and in that time I've moved form The Netherlands, to San Francisco and Vancouver, canada. And now that I feel I've gone as far as I can go in vancouver, I am looking at moving to London to move forward in my career. And I'll be 45 next year. You're 22, and if staying in your hometown is more of a concern, then in all honesty, maybe a desk job IS the job for you. __________________ www.markhensley.tv IMDB Credits

27th February 2007, 04:38 AM	#12
bishopthomas Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Central New Jersey Posts: 609	Have you done his market research? Hopefully "thorer" has, and he's the only one who knows if his area will support his endeavors. Maybe the real reason other companies are going out of business is because the business is not there, but neither I nor you know that for a fact.

27th February 2007, 05:47 AM	#14
RobMacki Gear addict Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 407	Keep doing what your doing. Put together a reel. Go to bigger shows and festivals and try to make contacts (friends). Go to AES shows and try to make contacts (friends). Be willing to travel. Try to work (intern) for guys who will give you more experience or credits. Continue to build your reputation locally and capitalize on that for now. Visit other areas to see where you might want to live, work and what the pulse is of the scene. Think realistically. Be willing to sacrifice. 22 was 25 years ago for me but it seems like yesterday.(OT) Read as much as you can and try to find a niche for yourself. If you're not willing to move, don't expect what you see and read about in the big cities. But you could eventually build up and own a boutique studio that is high-end multi-faceted and be a knowledgeable professional who is sought out in your area. Don't sell yourself short to get the gig unless you benefit in another way from it. And what Henchman said.

27th February 2007, 06:36 AM	#15
thorer01 Gear interested Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 9	Well what I charge right now is what I use for the college stuff that I do right now. Pretty much all I have is an Onyx 1220 and a few $200 condensers. Charging anything more than that considering I am using borrowed space I have done market research. Yes there is the bar band business, but from the market research I have done the last 2-3 years and the niche that I would love to fill are schools and churches and other non-profits. They perform multiple concerts a year, they have concert series and the like. I have contacted a number of church music directors, high school music directors and have gauged interest from them about how much they would use a recording and or live sound service. It looks like there is a viable market albeit a small one. From there I would love to branch out to more "professional" endeavors. I am fully aware that audio as a business is a risky adventure at best. When I graduated high school I investigated Full Sail and similar schools, I looked at FSU and MTSU. At the time I felt coming to a liberal arts school and getting a degree in music and something else would be able to give me the most options. I know that staying put limits my options a great deal, but there are reasons far more important to me than simply making money that are going to keep me here.

27th February 2007, 06:56 AM	#16
JonCraig Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 1,801	you sound sensible, and you sound like you have a good grasp of what you want to do. excellent! now, what is it that you think is keeping you from doing what you want to do? (ps... it's NOT the gear.) --jon __________________ "my job is to make music sound great and to not whine too much." --george massenburg Learn PT Techniques from Multi-Platinum Engineers. Click Me. Pro Tools "Tip of the Day" Widget. Click Me.

27th February 2007, 08:38 AM	#18
Steve Smith Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,394	In order to survive in a small market, and even possibly flourish, you MUST be able to diversify. Record, Do live sound.. Sell Gear, Do installs, GET CORPRATE EVENT ACCOUNTS. In no uncertian terms, make a path to dominate that market. The "nitch" you speak of with churches and non-profits is definately out there, but it is also a market that is loaded with DIYers. Learn to adapt to whatever need they have. The good news is that you are sellign the same thing every one of us is - Yourself. Keep building that rep, and find a way to become THAT GUY, the one that your clients never want to work without. Good Luck! __________________ Steve Smith - Unorignal, yet commonplace.

27th February 2007, 11:06 AM	#19
MosBass Gear interested Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: London Posts: 5	It is a very difficult situation you are in. Taking the risk to be involved in such a industry is itself the biggest most silly decision you will ever make. Today stability comes from diversity. I know of people that work throughout the week in London, and then fly off to the US and work the weekend, whilst sleeping on the plane. They are doing BIG projects yet they still have to pay the bills somehow, maybe they have big bills. I am 26 and have the same problem you do, how do I get started? Doing it as a hobby/part-time profession, and proving that with consumer gear you can create better than professional results is the way forward I believe. It may take a while and you may work with a load of idiots in the mean time, unless you seek the good guys out and offer your service to really build your name. And lets face it, if you were to work in a cube, you be working with dickheads anyway. I have a slight problem myself, due to illness I am not involved in the rat race at all, I am however a musician in a very promisisng band, so I am trying to hold on to the dream as well as forge a path for myself. Pressure is the biggest problem I am having. Pressure from myself to sort myself out. I have been married for 7 years now so I guess I should be thinking about a mortage and kids, and a pipe and slippers, now that does'nt fit into me buying 16 of the best pre-amp on the market, namely the portico 5012. Jazz Yoda said it best for me: "You are better off taking little steps and seeing what the world brings you. Follow the signs." Wise words these are You, like me have done loads of work already, you have a head start on people really just starting out, enjoy that. Now anyone have a million pounds they are willing to give me?