Phase and tracking a live band

Raymond107 · 12th October 2002

To anyone who has a good idea.
I rember seeing the Metalica movie where Hatfield is overdubing a track with out headphones and with two speakers on stands in front of his face. They switched the wires on one of the speakers to turn phase around thus (if I'm right here) keeping the mic from passing the sound comming from them. Here is my question, if I where to track a band on a live gig and was going to do some overdubbing later should I ask the PA guys to switch the drum fill's wires to keep the drum mic's from getting bleed from it's loud speakers?

Thanks much
Raymond ward
A.S. Recording Arts

Steve Smith · 12th October 2002

I think not... for two reasons..

1) the Metallica vocal thingy ( the auratones..) relies on exact mic placement to work, with one mic. (I am not sure that they are out of phase, as much as they are in the null point of the mic's polar pattern ?)

2) It will sound really bad for the drummer to have two out of phase monitors, and the sound co will likely say no way.. Have you thought about having the drummer wear headphones? This works great as far as isolation, and many drummers really like it as the clarity is generally way better than a pair of wedges... you could still have the monitor engineer give the drummer a wedge with just bas and kick in it is they really miss the "feeling"

Sofa King · 12th October 2002

Quote:

Originally posted by Steve Smith
I think not... for two reasons..

1) the Metallica vocal thingy ( the auratones..) relies on exact mic placement to work, with one mic. (I am not sure that they are out of phase, as much as they are in the null point of the mic's polar pattern ?)

I think that the polarity is flipped on one of the auratones, and as you mentioned the mic placement is crucial. I guess you need to get the mic to only hear the null between the two inverted speakers.

See ya

Raymond107 · 12th October 2002

Steve and Sean,
Thanks for the input, I didn't think that a sound company would be very up on this idea. The headphone trick may be the best way out of bleed, what about narrow thow speakers (like nearfields) mabye some hot spots? Any one ever tryed to use something like a nearfield or hot spots for a drum fill when recording?

Thanks
Raymond Ward
A.S. Recording Arts

Jules · 12th October 2002

"I think that the polarity is flipped on one of the auratones"

We do vocals in the CR and track a 'non singing' track - feeding that in with the phase flipped helps quite a bit we find.

Naturally, vocal type compressor action on the spill isn't re-created with this method.

Raymond107 · 14th October 2002

Jules wrote

Naturally, vocal type compressor action on the spill isn't re-created with this method.

I'm trying to understand here (sorry I'm still a sort-a newbe here), are you saying that you will track a strate up recording with this set up? No comps or anything?

Respectfuly
Raymond Ward
A.S. Recording Artrs

12th October 2002	#1
Raymond107 Gear interested Joined: Oct 2002 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3 Thread Starter	Phase and tracking a live band To anyone who has a good idea. I rember seeing the Metalica movie where Hatfield is overdubing a track with out headphones and with two speakers on stands in front of his face. They switched the wires on one of the speakers to turn phase around thus (if I'm right here) keeping the mic from passing the sound comming from them. Here is my question, if I where to track a band on a live gig and was going to do some overdubbing later should I ask the PA guys to switch the drum fill's wires to keep the drum mic's from getting bleed from it's loud speakers? Thanks much Raymond ward A.S. Recording Arts

12th October 2002	#2
Steve Smith Lives for gear Joined: Jun 2002 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,384	I think not... for two reasons.. 1) the Metallica vocal thingy ( the auratones..) relies on exact mic placement to work, with one mic. (I am not sure that they are out of phase, as much as they are in the null point of the mic's polar pattern ?) 2) It will sound really bad for the drummer to have two out of phase monitors, and the sound co will likely say no way.. Have you thought about having the drummer wear headphones? This works great as far as isolation, and many drummers really like it as the clarity is generally way better than a pair of wedges... you could still have the monitor engineer give the drummer a wedge with just bas and kick in it is they really miss the "feeling" __________________ Steve Smith - Unorignal, yet commonplace.

12th October 2002	#5
Jules Gearslutz.com admin Joined: Apr 2002 Location: A Yank in London, UK Posts: 17,808 1 Review written	"I think that the polarity is flipped on one of the auratones" We do vocals in the CR and track a 'non singing' track - feeding that in with the phase flipped helps quite a bit we find. Naturally, vocal type compressor action on the spill isn't re-created with this method. __________________ Jules Add your reviews to the new reviews area! Gearslutz on Facebook Follow my GS picks on Twitter

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Tracking a Live Band using a minimal setup! HELP!	mabrodie	So much gear, so little time!	11	23rd January 2010 02:56 PM
dbx project 1 286 over female vocal for live band - opinions?	LukeSnarl	Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording	1	16th September 2007 05:32 PM
Recording Live Band For First Time Help!	FunkyProduction	Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording	5	6th March 2007 08:43 AM
Hints for mixing backing tracks for live performance	moi	Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording	8	19th November 2006 06:25 PM
Bonnie Raitt and Lyle Lovett live	Dave Martin	Remote Possibilities in Acoustic Music & Location Recording	1	20th August 2002 12:07 AM

14th October 2002	#6
Raymond107 Gear interested Joined: Oct 2002 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3 Thread Starter	Jules wrote Naturally, vocal type compressor action on the spill isn't re-created with this method. I'm trying to understand here (sorry I'm still a sort-a newbe here), are you saying that you will track a strate up recording with this set up? No comps or anything? Respectfuly Raymond Ward A.S. Recording Artrs