Phase and tracking a live band

Raymond107 · 12th October 2002, 05:12 AM

To anyone who has a good idea.
I rember seeing the Metalica movie where Hatfield is overdubing a track with out headphones and with two speakers on stands in front of his face. They switched the wires on one of the speakers to turn phase around thus (if I'm right here) keeping the mic from passing the sound comming from them. Here is my question, if I where to track a band on a live gig and was going to do some overdubbing later should I ask the PA guys to switch the drum fill's wires to keep the drum mic's from getting bleed from it's loud speakers?

Thanks much
Raymond ward
A.S. Recording Arts

Steve Smith · 12th October 2002, 06:47 AM

I think not... for two reasons..

1) the Metallica vocal thingy ( the auratones..) relies on exact mic placement to work, with one mic. (I am not sure that they are out of phase, as much as they are in the null point of the mic's polar pattern ?)

2) It will sound really bad for the drummer to have two out of phase monitors, and the sound co will likely say no way.. Have you thought about having the drummer wear headphones? This works great as far as isolation, and many drummers really like it as the clarity is generally way better than a pair of wedges... you could still have the monitor engineer give the drummer a wedge with just bas and kick in it is they really miss the "feeling"

Sofa King · 12th October 2002, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Steve Smith
I think not... for two reasons..

1) the Metallica vocal thingy ( the auratones..) relies on exact mic placement to work, with one mic. (I am not sure that they are out of phase, as much as they are in the null point of the mic's polar pattern ?)

I think that the polarity is flipped on one of the auratones, and as you mentioned the mic placement is crucial. I guess you need to get the mic to only hear the null between the two inverted speakers.

See ya

Raymond107 · 12th October 2002, 09:08 PM

Steve and Sean,
Thanks for the input, I didn't think that a sound company would be very up on this idea. The headphone trick may be the best way out of bleed, what about narrow thow speakers (like nearfields) mabye some hot spots? Any one ever tryed to use something like a nearfield or hot spots for a drum fill when recording?

Thanks
Raymond Ward
A.S. Recording Arts

12th October 2002, 09:49 PM

"I think that the polarity is flipped on one of the auratones"

We do vocals in the CR and track a 'non singing' track - feeding that in with the phase flipped helps quite a bit we find.

Naturally, vocal type compressor action on the spill isn't re-created with this method.

Raymond107 · 14th October 2002, 06:29 AM

Jules wrote

Naturally, vocal type compressor action on the spill isn't re-created with this method.

I'm trying to understand here (sorry I'm still a sort-a newbe here), are you saying that you will track a strate up recording with this set up? No comps or anything?

Respectfuly
Raymond Ward
A.S. Recording Artrs

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12th October 2002, 05:12 AM	#1
Raymond107 Gear interested Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3	Phase and tracking a live band To anyone who has a good idea. I rember seeing the Metalica movie where Hatfield is overdubing a track with out headphones and with two speakers on stands in front of his face. They switched the wires on one of the speakers to turn phase around thus (if I'm right here) keeping the mic from passing the sound comming from them. Here is my question, if I where to track a band on a live gig and was going to do some overdubbing later should I ask the PA guys to switch the drum fill's wires to keep the drum mic's from getting bleed from it's loud speakers? Thanks much Raymond ward A.S. Recording Arts

12th October 2002, 06:47 AM	#2
Steve Smith Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,394	I think not... for two reasons.. 1) the Metallica vocal thingy ( the auratones..) relies on exact mic placement to work, with one mic. (I am not sure that they are out of phase, as much as they are in the null point of the mic's polar pattern ?) 2) It will sound really bad for the drummer to have two out of phase monitors, and the sound co will likely say no way.. Have you thought about having the drummer wear headphones? This works great as far as isolation, and many drummers really like it as the clarity is generally way better than a pair of wedges... you could still have the monitor engineer give the drummer a wedge with just bas and kick in it is they really miss the "feeling" __________________ Steve Smith - Unorignal, yet commonplace.

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12th October 2002, 09:08 PM	#4
Raymond107 Gear interested Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3	Steve and Sean, Thanks for the input, I didn't think that a sound company would be very up on this idea. The headphone trick may be the best way out of bleed, what about narrow thow speakers (like nearfields) mabye some hot spots? Any one ever tryed to use something like a nearfield or hot spots for a drum fill when recording? Thanks Raymond Ward A.S. Recording Arts

12th October 2002, 09:49 PM	#5
Jules Guest Posts: n/a	"I think that the polarity is flipped on one of the auratones" We do vocals in the CR and track a 'non singing' track - feeding that in with the phase flipped helps quite a bit we find. Naturally, vocal type compressor action on the spill isn't re-created with this method.

14th October 2002, 06:29 AM	#6
Raymond107 Gear interested Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3	Jules wrote Naturally, vocal type compressor action on the spill isn't re-created with this method. I'm trying to understand here (sorry I'm still a sort-a newbe here), are you saying that you will track a strate up recording with this set up? No comps or anything? Respectfuly Raymond Ward A.S. Recording Artrs