Digital desks and the future of live recording

[Gerax]

Hello

I was preparing for a forthcoming live recording gig of a rock band next month, gathering infos and doing the usual routine, when this thought came to my mind.

Lately, with the advent of digital consoles being used in live concerts for FOH duties I've seen a trend starting to develop (it may come as no surprise for you US and UK guys, but here in Italy things usually take a few years to catch up...): FOH engineers started multitracking their live gigs to use them as test material for the following gig, so that they don't need the band to fine tune their mix the following day at soundcheck; they just play back the recorded tracks and it's like they almost have the band playing...They just take a digital split from the console's I/O rack and use Pro Tools systems or HD recorders for that task...Digital desks have simplyfied this a lot, as the split can be taken before any digital process happens in the console, just after the preamp, unlike it was with analog desks where the Direct output wasn't always available as prefader, pre EQ pre insert...Not really need for a mic splitter anymore...let alone all of the things following from the splitter...

Since often this multitrack recordings are used for live releases, how do you think this is going to affect us folks doing live recording??

Cheers

L.G.

[Remoteness]

For the most part, we are screwed...

Unless the client wants a different quality piece of gear or a particular type of system it's a serious issue that needs to be addressed.

We must re-invent our remote recording duties as soon as possible.

In any event, that type of recording will never replaced a real control room or control cabin. IMHO, having a tuned space to listen to what you have captured is still very important to many clients and artists and the key to our survival.

[ClickTrackAudio]

You're, as usual, right Steve...

The problem isn't with the higher end clients who understand what they are paying for when they get a mobile on site...its moreso with the mid-to-lower end clients who ask the question "why should I pay for you when I can get the FOH to do it?"

So you're right...we must reinvent ourselves and keep a mind to the future. Client education is huge, but we also have to provide services to them that a guy at FOH cannot. We still have a benefit when it comes to live-to-broadcast, as most realize that what sounds good in the house doesn't necessarily translate well on radio or TV when the room isn't helping. With shrinking budgets, however, we do always have to keep an eye open for other services we can provide in order to maximize our usefulness to the client.

[Harley-OIART]

Great points Steve...

For the live sound engineer side of things however, I must say that the 'virtual soundcheck' factor is pretty sweet. Add to the fact that with a desk like the Digidesign Venue you can truly acheive some pretty serious sonics while maintaining the benefits of a digital desk, and I'd say that digital is a very viable option here to stay.

Still whole heartedly agree with you though about having a contol room or cabin, you just can't compromise on that.

[Remoteness]

Yes, the virtual band situation is an awesome way to maximize your soundcheck or lack of one.

Sometime ago I was talking to Dave Natale about this very thing. The one thing you cannot check for is how your mix sounds when the band's backline and monitors are blasting away.

I suggested (to him) the potencial to feed the monitors and backline via those (same) recorded tracks using reamping techniques and such, so everyone can hear what it really sounds like during a soundcheck without the band present...

Now, that's something special -- Isn't it?

[studjo]

and the drums???

I think that stuff is usefull for the huge shows - the small local gig won't benefit as much anyway.

Jo

[Remoteness]

Well, the drums would run through the monitors which gets you pretty close.
For me, the backline level usually is the bigger problem since it's louder than the drums in many cases.

This is not a perfect solution, but it's better than nothing at all coming from the stage.

Hey, YMMV my man!

[bishopthomas]

I agree that this is a serious issue. It has been for a while, but with new innovations like the Venue (tracking directly to Pro Tools from FOH console) it has become an even bigger concern. It is becoming very easy for the live sound crew to track the concert, whether or not they are involved in the mixing process it is still detrimental to our profession. Send the tracks to a brick and mortar studio for mixing and the remote recording trucks sit in the parking lot.

Take Pearl Jam for example. They released an entire tour on CD without even using a studio engineer. The mix came off the FOH console, they sent the data to a mastering studio, then it went out to the public. As a fan and a music lover, I think this is wonderful; but as a location recordist I see how much harm this can do to our profession.

However, I don't think that live broadcasts will ever be controlled by the FOH engineer. Of course, multitracking for later mixing doesn't work, and most understand that what goes to the house (in small to medium venues) is not appropriate for CD/radio/TV. So, does this mean that the future will bring only live to two track recording? How many businesses will fold because of lack of broadcast work? How will small companies be able to make it in the demanding world of live broadcast?

[foldback]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

For the most part, we are screwed...

Unless the client wants a different quality piece of gear or a particular type of system it's a serious issue that needs to be addressed.

We must re-invent our remote recording duties as soon as possible.

In any event, that type of recording will never replaced a real control room or control cabin. IMHO, having a tuned space to listen to what you have captured is still very important to many clients and artists and the key to our survival.

I think you are right, ultimately, we are screwed... but, there are still good years ahead. At some point, sophisticated multitrack recording right off the FOH console may eliminate the separate remote recording rig, it's all a matter of how much quality and value can be delivered.

Most of my remote recording projects for bands produce comparitivly low revenue for me. The reason they hire me is because they need expertise and equipment or else they would do it themselves. Most of them ARE mixing their own material on their home computer system, they're just using me to capture the show.

Constant re-evaluation is required for survival. Fortunately, some customers can afford to pay for customer service and it is THE way to make yourself "required". I go to tremendous lengths to try and service my clients with what they want and what they need (even if they don't know they need it beforehand).

The worst thing for the client is when a FOH recording rig fails to capture a killer show perfectly. That's good for us tho because we can use redundant recorders and UPS systems to be SURE we get the recording.

I tell bands that I'm the alternative to bad sound, they seem to get that message, it's like paying for insurance.

At some point in the future all PA mixers will have multitrack hard disk recording built-in. At that point we better have reinvented something else that's pretty good because otherwise, we will be totally out of work.

[studjo]

Originally Posted by Remoteness

Well, the drums would run through the monitors which gets you pretty close.
For me, the backline level usually is the bigger problem since it's louder than the drums in many cases.

This is not a perfect solution, but it's better than nothing at all coming from the stage.

Hey, YMMV my man!

I'm just pulling your leg and love being a smartass


Jo

[Remoteness]

Originally Posted by studjo

I'm just pulling your leg and love being a smartass


Jo

In any event, you made a good point and it should have been addressed, so I did.

[Harley-OIART]

Originally Posted by studjo

I think that stuff is usefull for the huge shows - the small local gig won't benefit as much anyway.

Agreed. Mid to Large Venue Tours are really the only ones that would get much benefit from a virtual soundcheck as with rigs that big the backline level is less of an issue and the house PA can really start to breathe.