power conditioner for live use?

[miercoles]

We bring a single 16 space rack with us for shows, I have a lot of gear.

A sound guy told me we should have a power conditioner. I have an ART 401 - its called a "digital power distribution system" - is that the same thing? Won't that regulate the power going through it?

I don't know much about these so any input would help.

Thanks.

[marty lester]

Originally Posted by miercoles

We bring a single 16 space rack with us for shows, I have a lot of gear.

A sound guy told me we should have a power conditioner. I have an ART 401 - its called a "digital power distribution system" - is that the same thing? Won't that regulate the power going through it?

I don't know much about these so any input would help.

Thanks.

i use something similar to this:

http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProdu...duct_Id=199025

i know the higher-end remote guys would recommend something way
more robust than that, but so far this little beauty has worked great.
luckily, i haven't had a brown-out yet, so i don't know it's real-world
ability to keep my rig up long enough to hit "save"...etc...but i've
been meaning to test it.

hope this helps,
marty.

[miercoles]

I guess my question is more like - What do I need to create the most consistent flow of power to my equipment, from venue to venue? ...and how important is it to do so?

[SixAndChange]

Personally I think clean and regulated power is one of the most overlooked neccesssssssititeeietsis in audio.

If you think about it, audio IS electricity. So why would we not want the best?

When you buy a "power conditioner" make sure and look for a few things, because the wording companies use can be very tricky. Here is a sort of definition of sorts.


Power Distributer - Basicly a power strip that is rackmountable, it normally does notthing of any value other than provide extra ports for AC. Sometimes they have those sweet little rotator lights, like Furman.

AC Filter/Noise Filter/Spike Filter: These are always called something different, but they are a great help because they act as a buffer for any spikes (SURGE) in AC that may occur, or any line noise such as RF interference. This is a very valuable feature to have. Some of them have ratings as well, like 75dB suprresion at 20kHz.

AC Voltage Regulator: Pretty much exactly what it says, and another very good thing to have for yourself. It takes your input (at my Queens apartment I get roughly 115v coming in) and brings it up to 120, OR if its coming out of your wall at 128 it will drop it down to 120. Your equipment is built, tested and rated at 120v - 15a and you can be damn sure thats what it wants to see.

AMP/WATT ratings: These are important depending on how and what your going to be using your power cond. for. Normally they will be rated at 15 amps, around 1200 watts. That would be a pretty decent piece of gear for a variety of appplications. You can get much more powerful ones though, mine is a 20a 2400 watt conditioner. You don't have to worry abouty matching your current flow rating on the equipment to the current flow in your house/venue/studio/wherever because its basicly just a cutoff point. If your house breaker is rated at 15 amps and your power cond. is rated at 20 amps, what that means is that your house breaker will blow first, and your power cond. will be unaffected. Thats pretty sweet haha.


Anyhow, a good conditioner will run you over 200 bucks usually, but its well worth it. Dont get caught up with having to have a FURMAN or something, because some of the best conditioners are made by computer people for computers, such as the company TRIPP LITE.

[KevWind]

I happen to be looking at their web sight and I couldn't find a 401 you might call them and ask ! I use a Furman RP 8D which also has handy pull out lights.

[Remoteness]

IMO, the proper good quality UPS is as important and usually over looked.

[MichaelPatrick]

I just bought an Equitek Son of Q for the same purpose and I'll take it out next weekend for the first time. Here's a link to power FAQs from the company. Lots of studios, I'm told, use Equitek balanced power systems.

http://www.equitech.com/faq/faq.htm

[Steve Smith]

I am a HUGE Equitek fan.... but , as Steve already mentioned, a UPS is as ( or more) crucial....

[tnjazz]

I use a Furman AR-117 AC Line Regulator. It does a pretty decent job I think. I'm sure there are lots of other better (more expensive too!) options.

I agree don't get caught up in the Furman "Power Conditioners" though. They're mostly just power strips in a rack case.

[fifthcircle]

Most of the cheap Furman's are crap. I bought one once and I had a bunch of gear fry in a surge on location. Bad news really.

Now I carry either a AR-117 or the newer AR1215 with me. They have worked very well for field work. I've had some particularly nasty power that they have saved me from, between the surges and brownouts. In addition, I also carry a small APC UPS that I use for my computer. That has saved me on more than one occasion as well. Despite the best attempts, I get people unplugging main power all the time. It ranges from the maintenance/janitorial types that just unplug me to vacuum a rug to people bumping into plugs. I don't care as much about preamps/consoles being turned off, but loosing power to a computer or disc drive can be bad news.

--Ben

[Remoteness]

Originally Posted by Steve Smith

I am a HUGE Equitek fan.... but , as Steve already mentioned, a UPS is as ( or more) crucial....

Check this UPS tag...

You will find a few good threads on UPSs.

[bishopthomas]

I have a cheapo Furman in my rack, but I don't put my faith in it. It's a power strip with lights, nothing more. It has a readout of the voltage, but that's just to look cool.

[foldback]

If you do remote recording and don't have a UPS system, you're NOT PRO and are carelessly putting your customers recordings (and your income) at risk.

Regulators, conditioners, all these rack mount boxes pretending to somehow clean or regulate your power....... none of that means anything when the power winks off, and then, hopefully back on.

Meanwhile your hard disk system or computer or CD recorder are TOAST, the tracks you were recording are forever smushed. Unless you took a little bit of time to include a quality UPS for your system. Lately, I've been experimenting with a 800 watt online system that has zero changeover time, power output regulation to within 2%, weighs under 50 pounds in a SKB rack case, only takes up two rack spaces and it's priced well under $600. It will run my entire remote rig for over 12 minutes in case of a total power loss. I'll report more as I gather more actual use data.

Giving consideration to the power supply that feeds any audio system is critical if you want to optimize the sound quality.

[Remoteness]

Originally Posted by bishopthomas

I have a cheapo Furman in my rack, but I don't put my faith in it. It's a power strip with lights, nothing more. It has a readout of the voltage, but that's just to look cool.

If you can lift a 15 amp power conditioner with one hand, it’s not worth your money or the time installing it. If you’re looking for a box with lights, bells and whistles you’re doing fine buying a light weight unit like that.

[yrplace]

We carry a large and rather heavy 30 amp UPS although we never connect to or need anything close to 20 amps. Saved us a lot of hassle this past Friday on a soundstage when the PA took out the main breaker for all the audio power.

We didn't even realize that it had killed our power until we heard the "beep" from the UPS. They got the power back on in about 5 minutes and we had no more trouble and didn't have to power down anything.

So the weight and cost are more than worth it to us.

Mark Linett
Your Place Or Mine Recording
www.ypomr.com

[Steve Smith]

Originally Posted by yrplace

We carry a large and rather heavy 30 amp UPS although we never connect to or need anything close to 20 amps. Saved us a lot of hassle this past Friday on a soundstage when the PA took out the main breaker for all the audio power.

We didn't even realize that it had killed our power until we heard the "beep" from the UPS. They got the power back on in about 5 minutes and we had no more trouble and didn't have to power down anything.

So the weight and cost are more than worth it to us.

Mark Linett
Your Place Or Mine Recording
www.ypomr.com

Its good to learn that lesson when you already have a UPS.... Well Done!

[Harley-OIART]

Question for you Steve,

What is your take on "Surge-X" products? I was at an AES meeting in my local chapter and they had a product specialist there giving a lecture. His logic / technology seemed pretty up to snuff to me.

They have single space rackmount boxes that boast some pretty professional quality specifications for surge protection and voltage stabilization.

http://www.surgex.com/

http://www.surgex.com/products/sx1115.html

Cheers.

[tenor39]

Originally Posted by Harley-OIART

Question for you Steve,

What is your take on "Surge-X" products? I was at an AES meeting in my local chapter and they had a product specialist there giving a lecture. His logic / technology seemed pretty up to snuff to me.

They have single space rackmount boxes that boast some pretty professional quality specifications for surge protection and voltage stabilization.

http://www.surgex.com/

http://www.surgex.com/products/sx1115.html

Cheers.

The Surge-X and others like it use a large series-mode inductor to prevent HV spikes (like lightning) from getting through. Research has shown that most HV surges are HF in nature, hence the inductor to block them. They still rely on MOV's or gas-discharge tubes to deal with lower voltage surges that get past the inductor.

[Harley-OIART]

Thanks alot for the reply Mike {tenor39).

The product specialist from Surge-X mentioned that the products they make boast a tolerance of within + or - 3% the target voltage. I am guessing here that this is little more than a higher end furman, with better high-voltage protection.

I have an idea which is to pool the knowledge and experience here on this forum, and come up with the most cost effective, yet optimum way, to protect todays modern digital and expensive analog gear for us field ond stationary technicians.

Really I'm looking for the cheapest way to build a rig that is :

-Optimum for the Components (Computers, Converters, Analog Gear, Amps)
-Offers some sort of UPS solution
-Hopefully doesn't involve a 500lb transformer =)

I'm just thinking out loud here, but really it seems like a good idea to compile a list of components nessicary to protect valuable equipment (especially computers and quality gear) in the field.

Am I buying into the hype here? I have heard that computers have increased pop's n' clicks, as well as errors and crashes when the voltage fluctuates, hence get a quality voltage stabilizer. I want to know from the pro's who have been doing this for years, what does it really take to protect your investments in this business, and achieve some quality tones at the same time (Crash free computer, Good UPS, low noisefloor).

Talking your ears off - Scott

[foldback]

I've built DC to AC inverter systems for cruise ship applications, these back up the sound system in the event that the main generators go out and then the emergency generator won't start. The sound system is continuously powered by the inverter so there is zero changeover time in case the primary power goes away and does not come back. The sound system MUST be able to run for more than an hour in order to sound the abandon ship alarm sound.

For quality audio systems you should have a pure-sine inverter supply. Just like the name implies the inverter provides a very pure sine wave AC output. Cheap UPS systems like you find at CompUSA have an AC output that is more square-wave than sine.

Before you just go buy something gigantic, determine the amperage of your recording rig and buy a unit that supplys 1.5 times as much wattage as your worst case load. You may be pleasantly surprised about how much (or how little) you really need. I have an amp clamp that I got at Home Depot for around $45. It's easy and fairly safe to use. Fire up your complete mobile recording rig, clamp the probe around a hot AC conductor, squeeze the trigger and read the amperage directly off the meter, then multiply that times 120 (ac volts) to find the basic wattage draw, then multiply by 1.5 to account for peaks and power-factor.

Here's an example: Lets say the meter reads 3.5 amps of current draw with the recording rig fully operational.

3.5 (amps) x 120 (volts) = 420

420 x 1.5 = 630 watts (including headroom and power factor)

So a pure-sine UPS with at least 630 watts of continuous supply would do the trick.

An online UPS means that the AC output is continuously created by the UPS, from either the incoming wall power or from the batteries. There is no changeover time in the event of a power failure because you're always running off the inverter. Another benefit of this type is regulation. Since the output is electronically derived it is easy for the box to maintain the target output voltage within 2% in the event of brown outs or over-voltage situations.

The pure-sine inverters I put on ships are about $5500 for 3000 watts of supply plus you need batteries for them. These have a redundant section to provide backup in the even of component failures.

The online UPS systems by Tripp Lite are impressive for the price. They offer a lot of models that look simlar, you want the one that says Pure-Sine On-Line protection. They have a little one that supplies about 280 watts for under $200. The 800 watt model is around $525. There's an even bigger one if you need that much current. They are all rack mountable.

The runtime on the 800 watt model can be extended with an external battery pack but that really jumps the weight up. The stock 2 rack space unit weights around 49 pounds in a 2 space SKB case. Batteries are heavy and eventually require replacement so don't buy more than you really need.

The less wattage your recording rig consumes the longer the runtime of the UPS. I've tested my system to run for over 12 minutes on the 800 watt when I rip the cord out of the wall.

[Harley-OIART]

Extremely helpful post 'foldback'. I can't thank you enough.

Warmest Regards,
Scott

[Ol' Betsey]

Hi guys,

Doncha just love the Search function? Old threads to the rescue!

Basically to cut a long story short I need something that I can use to condition the power in my VERY old apartment building as well as bring along with me and my smallish rig (API Rack, Apogee Convertors, Mackie Onyx, Computer etc) when I do location recording.

I get loads of clicks, pops, spikes, whatever you want to call it, here in my building and at first I thought it was probably just my own household appliances but am pretty sure there's lots of wackiness in the wiring here as well. What can you expect from a building hardly touched since 1890?

After reading Foldback's suggestions I came upon this: Tripp Lite UPS

Would this work for me?

Cheers fellas,

R.

[tommy_asakawa]

I'm using a Furman P-1800AR with great results!

FurmanSound.com - Pro A/V Product - P-1800 AR

[Ol' Betsey]

Hey Tommy,

Looks nice!

Anyone have anymore thoughts on the Tripp Lite I thinked to? Foldback maybe?

Cheers fellas,

R.

[Jim vanBergen]

Tripp-Lite make very good products. I have been using them for more than five years with good results.

While the unit you are considering is probably enough for your application, I tend to go with the larger units for greater amperage and runtime in case of power loss. Currently I have two of the Smart 1000's, one running at half load, the other just below full.

I find I never have quite as much UPS as I'd like to have, especially when the power goes (more often when doing live recordings, especially when trying to listen back or do backups after the show!)

SMART1000RM2U - SmartPro Rack/Tower UPS - Intelligent, line-interactive network power management system

Hope this helps.

JvB

[Remoteness]

We have a fairly large MGE UPS in each of our dual X48 racks.
This UPS handles the X48s plus the mic pres, all our 2 track recorders (when we plug them into the rear rack quad box) for more than 25 minutes of pure sinewave power.

I like the safety net it provides us.

[Ol' Betsey]

Originally Posted by Jim vanBergen

Tripp-Lite make very good products. I have been using them for more than five years with good results.

While the unit you are considering is probably enough for your application, I tend to go with the larger units for greater amperage and runtime in case of power loss. Currently I have two of the Smart 1000's, one running at half load, the other just below full.

I find I never have quite as much UPS as I'd like to have, especially when the power goes (more often when doing live recordings, especially when trying to listen back or do backups after the show!)

SMART1000RM2U - SmartPro Rack/Tower UPS - Intelligent, line-interactive network power management system

Hope this helps.

JvB

Hi Jim,

Thanks a lot for that. Yeah... Not knowing much about power requirements I probably let my wallet edge me towards the lower rated product.

I found the exact one you mentioned as well as the 1500 watt rated one as well. I'm sure it's best to be safer than sorry, right?

SmartPro Rack/Tower UPS (1000VA, 2U)

It's just kinda hard when, well, UPS's are hardly very BLING are they!?

But as I get older I value the idea of working from the ground up much more highly.

But guys, Along with saving me when/if the power goes when location recording etc do you think this will also help with the pops, clicks and other dirty power issues I might have when working at home/location as well?

Cheers,

R.

P.S. Steve those remote racks look so rockin'!

[Jim vanBergen]

Originally Posted by Ol' Betsey

But guys, Along with saving me when/if the power goes when location recording etc do you think this will also help with the pops, clicks and other dirty power issues I might have when working at home/location as well?

If the problems are power-related, yes, this should definitely help.
One of the things I like about these UPS units is when they are equipped with a meter to show % of capacity being used by the unit. Right now I have two 20A circuits each with a UPS on it, the UPS responsible for the DiGiCo desk & fiber system is running at at 25% capacity (which provides more battery operation time) and the one for my three computers is running around 60%, also for the gear that re-boots much quicker than the console will.

Hope this helps!

[Jim vanBergen]

Originally Posted by Ol' Betsey

It's just kinda hard when, well, UPS's are hardly very BLING are they!?

Nothing sexy or Bling about them, especially when you can buy a hot pre, new mic, etc at the same cost.

But the peace of mind you get from a rock-solid rig is highly worthwhile. After having had shore power pulled during a vocal over-dub or a re-mix just after the show, I promise you that it's worth having, especially since you don't have control over everyone or the power at a venue... like the time I went to record a famous classical group and found the shore power was solar, running far below standard voltage.

[Remoteness]

A UPS may not have the bling factor, but when the power fails and your still running...

This will keep that cash flow coming in, so you can buy all the bling-tech you want.